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Thread: New Member Question

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    0707384's Avatar
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    New Member Question

    What a great website! I learned yesterday that I have NEVER truly shocked my pool, alge and all the issues over time have added up. I hope I am headed in the right direction. My issue, I can't keep chlorine in the pool, it was green (again) and I have spent the last two weeks getting it crystal clear. I'm afraid I will lose the battle when I go on vacation next week for 3 weeks, pool showed hints of alge again yesterday soooo....

    I used pool math and as of yesterday I shock/slamed the pool. This is the first time it's been "truly" shocked "EVER". Vitals are FC (27 when shocked), before FC 0 and TAC .5 and I have 4 3" tabs in along with the 25K t-9 generator going at 90%. Salt is 3100, CH 300, CYA 65, TA 120, PH 7.2, Copper 0, Iron 0, Pho 100. New pumps 1yr, new filter, etc. The issue is, I can't keep chlorine in it and if left alone more than one day it heads south. I added the new 25K gal generator to pool to generate more chlorine due to AZ heat, pool can get to 90 and is up to 87 now. BTW, last year I compleatly replaced the entire generating system thinking the old one may have something wrong.

    The question is, am I missing something? What do I need to test or do? Will the shock/slam get me there? If it turns again, I will bulldoze it.
    2001, 14k gal, SWG T-9 25K cell, IG dark pebble, 1 HP WF WFE-4, Pent CC250 cartridge w/ PAP150 pent filter, Kreepy, Large rock waterfall .75 WF WFE-3 no filter on WF. Tucson AZ. "New" Pentr cartridge and filter in 5/2015. Pumps are less than 2 yrs old say 2013/2014. W-Fall cycled 2X wkly, used when swim. 1 to 2 mthly. Water replaced 5/2015.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New Member Question

    Welcome to TFP!!! Another local from just up the street from me

    What test kit are you using to test and maintain the SLAM level of FC? The results (with the exception of the FC) look like Leslie's garbage testing.

    3 weeks is a LONG time to be away from the pool. The SWG should be able to keep up with the FC maintenance, but you will need to finish the ShockLevelAndMAINTAIN Process first.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: New Member Question

    I guess there's three parts to the answer -- one is that you're going to need to SLAM (shock level and MAINTAIN, which requires frequent testing and practically means you're going to need a good FAS-DPD test kit ASAP), second is that if you keep using tabs you're going to eventually push your CYA level high enough to bring problems, third (and related) is that before you go on vacation you're going to have to complete the SLAM AND make sure your SWG can keep up with chlorine demand on its own.

    The SWG can generate enough chlorine to keep your pool in good shape as long as nothing is growing in the water, but I don't think it will be able to keep up with even a minor algae bloom -- that's why you need to kill everything really dead as a first step. AFAIK the amount of chlorine that gets added by the SWG is a function of pump/filter run time -- how long does it run each day ?

    The Test Kit link in jblizzle's sig line compares the available FAS-DPD test kits but I couldn't find a link to the tft store (for when you conclude that a TF-100 is the best choice), so here it is :

    http://tftestkits.net/splash-page.html
    Cedar hot tub, 680 US gallons - Snorkel wood-burning heater, canoe paddle, "offline" Intex 1000 GPH pump/filter with skimmer

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    Re: New Member Question

    Quote Originally Posted by 0707384 View Post
    What a great website! I learned yesterday that I have NEVER truly shocked my pool, alge and all the issues over time have added up. I hope I am headed in the right direction. My issue, I can't keep chlorine in the pool, it was green (again) and I have spent the last two weeks getting it crystal clear. I'm afraid I will lose the battle when I go on vacation next week for 3 weeks, pool showed hints of alge again yesterday soooo....

    I used pool math and as of yesterday I shock/slamed the pool. This is the first time it's been "truly" shocked "EVER". Vitals are FC (27 when shocked), before FC 0 and TAC .5 and I have 4 3" tabs in along with the 25K t-9 generator going at 90%. Salt is 3100, CH 300, CYA 65, TA 120, PH 7.2, Copper 0, Iron 0, Pho 100. New pumps 1yr, new filter, etc. The issue is, I can't keep chlorine in it and if left alone more than one day it heads south. I added the new 25K gal generator to pool to generate more chlorine due to AZ heat, pool can get to 90 and is up to 87 now. BTW, last year I compleatly replaced the entire generating system thinking the old one may have something wrong.

    The question is, am I missing something? What do I need to test or do? Will the shock/slam get me there? If it turns again, I will bulldoze it.
    Those test results sound like pool store results. Do you have one of the recommended test kits? It is essential to have the right test kit on site to perform the SLAM process. Shock Level And Maintain. It's not a one-time megadose. Maintain is the key, along with eradicating all the algae hiding under ladders and steps and behind light fixtures. If you're at 27 FC now, you won't be in a couple hours, and you'll need to add more bleach to get back up to 27. Again and again and again until you pass the three tests in the Shock Level And Maintain article.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: New Member Question

    I used Leslies combined with Guardex 4 in 1 test kit to verify results. Plan to buy best kit available but was baseling and trying to get shock done asap. Ahhh truth be known, I didn't know I had followup to the SLAM... so more to do it looks like. Will have pool watched, swept, etc. but kiddos don't work as hard as I do.
    2001, 14k gal, SWG T-9 25K cell, IG dark pebble, 1 HP WF WFE-4, Pent CC250 cartridge w/ PAP150 pent filter, Kreepy, Large rock waterfall .75 WF WFE-3 no filter on WF. Tucson AZ. "New" Pentr cartridge and filter in 5/2015. Pumps are less than 2 yrs old say 2013/2014. W-Fall cycled 2X wkly, used when swim. 1 to 2 mthly. Water replaced 5/2015.

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    Re: New Member Question

    If you want the best, order the TF-100 with XL option and SpeedStir.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    Re: New Member Question

    Ordered... thanks!
    2001, 14k gal, SWG T-9 25K cell, IG dark pebble, 1 HP WF WFE-4, Pent CC250 cartridge w/ PAP150 pent filter, Kreepy, Large rock waterfall .75 WF WFE-3 no filter on WF. Tucson AZ. "New" Pentr cartridge and filter in 5/2015. Pumps are less than 2 yrs old say 2013/2014. W-Fall cycled 2X wkly, used when swim. 1 to 2 mthly. Water replaced 5/2015.

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    Re: New Member Question

    All, ordered TF-100 kit with XL and speed stir, as you mention it will take a few days to get here. Re-read SLAM process... ahhh you guessed it, should of ordered kit first but there is good news I believe. Like I said, I have been sweeping, shocking (I thought) and cleaning the heck out of the pool the last two weeks. It is very clear and very spotless. I'm thinking about going out on a limb and adding more chlorine but wanted to ask your opinion first.

    I hear you on the 3" tabs, I want them out as well! I also hear you on getting the all the algae out. As mentioned, the pool is spotless but I will pull the light and clean under it as well as a couple of spots on the rocks (waterfall and a big rock in sitting area of pool). As for running the SWG, one hour for every 10 degrees... running 10 hrs a day right now and would love to back that off.

    Appreciate the advice and knowledge... hummm, to add chlorine or not, that is the question.
    2001, 14k gal, SWG T-9 25K cell, IG dark pebble, 1 HP WF WFE-4, Pent CC250 cartridge w/ PAP150 pent filter, Kreepy, Large rock waterfall .75 WF WFE-3 no filter on WF. Tucson AZ. "New" Pentr cartridge and filter in 5/2015. Pumps are less than 2 yrs old say 2013/2014. W-Fall cycled 2X wkly, used when swim. 1 to 2 mthly. Water replaced 5/2015.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New Member Question

    That 1 hour per degree is bogus. Depends on too many factors.

    After you complete the SLAM, you just run your pump as long as needed to keep the dirt filtered and adjust the SWG output to maintain adequate FC. Many people only run the pump for 4 hours a day. Currently I am running my 8 hours to take advantage of solar heating (although it is not really running much any more as we are so hot) and the SWG at 50%. I would cut the pump run time back, but right now the pool is a mess from palm tree droppings and the skimmer can not keep up.

    BTW, your pump is way bigger than you need and costing you more $ on electricty. Mine is a smaller line of pump and only a 1HP and I usually run on low speed when solar is not needed.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: New Member Question

    Pump is actually a 2 speed hayward 1.5... I use to run it about 4 hours a day and everything was fine, suspect I should be able to drop to 40 to 60% when SLAM is really completed. Somewhere I lost ground and have never recovered so going overboard now to get control of it. I can dial in the SWG pretty easy when SLAM completed. I really hope this get's things back in check. I'm ready to swim and not clean every day.
    2001, 14k gal, SWG T-9 25K cell, IG dark pebble, 1 HP WF WFE-4, Pent CC250 cartridge w/ PAP150 pent filter, Kreepy, Large rock waterfall .75 WF WFE-3 no filter on WF. Tucson AZ. "New" Pentr cartridge and filter in 5/2015. Pumps are less than 2 yrs old say 2013/2014. W-Fall cycled 2X wkly, used when swim. 1 to 2 mthly. Water replaced 5/2015.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New Member Question

    Ah, well change your signature to say it is 2-speed

    Since you brought the pool up to SLAM level, I would suggest just 1/2 to 1 bottle of chlorine every day until your kit arrives.
    What kind of chlorine test is in your 4 way kit? Is it pink or yellow color matching?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    Re: New Member Question

    Yellow... and I used it with one drop in it, multiplied by 5 to get a ~swag number. Added 1 gal as you mentioned to get to ~26 or past it, will watch it for the next few days. BTW had to use another kit that goes to level 5 to measure... 4 way kit only goes to 3.0.

    Question, should I be concerned about the TA at 120? Once past the SLAM should I try to lower it then increase the PH?

    Will change signature, already seeing different ways to post from other members. Thanks!!
    2001, 14k gal, SWG T-9 25K cell, IG dark pebble, 1 HP WF WFE-4, Pent CC250 cartridge w/ PAP150 pent filter, Kreepy, Large rock waterfall .75 WF WFE-3 no filter on WF. Tucson AZ. "New" Pentr cartridge and filter in 5/2015. Pumps are less than 2 yrs old say 2013/2014. W-Fall cycled 2X wkly, used when swim. 1 to 2 mthly. Water replaced 5/2015.

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    Re: New Member Question

    Quote Originally Posted by 0707384 View Post
    Yellow... and I used it with one drop in it, multiplied by 5 to get a ~swag number. Added 1 gal as you mentioned to get to ~26 or past it, will watch it for the next few days. BTW had to use another kit that goes to level 5 to measure... 4 way kit only goes to 3.0.

    Question, should I be concerned about the TA at 120? Once past the SLAM should I try to lower it then increase the PH?

    Will change signature, already seeing different ways to post from other members. Thanks!!
    It doesn't quite work that way with the yellow OTO test, sad to say. It's just an indicator, it doesn't react with the chlorine.

    What will happen at higher FC levels is: Blinding yellow is about 10. School bus yellow is about 12-13. Hunter orange is around 18, up around 25 it starts to look pumpkin orange. I never went any higher than that, but it's been reliably reported that it eventually will turn brown if you get high enough.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: New Member Question

    Ha, I can hear you laughing but it's a good laugh. Pumpkin orange it is, I feel somewhat safe because I could have pushed to 37 if mustard algae was the concern. In a holding pattern for the next few days. Thanks!
    2001, 14k gal, SWG T-9 25K cell, IG dark pebble, 1 HP WF WFE-4, Pent CC250 cartridge w/ PAP150 pent filter, Kreepy, Large rock waterfall .75 WF WFE-3 no filter on WF. Tucson AZ. "New" Pentr cartridge and filter in 5/2015. Pumps are less than 2 yrs old say 2013/2014. W-Fall cycled 2X wkly, used when swim. 1 to 2 mthly. Water replaced 5/2015.

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    Re: New Member Question

    Updated pool signature and added pic if interested... added 1 gallon yesterday and one today. I am at the school bus orange level... should I add some more bleach 10% just to make sure I stay ahead of it? Also, swept and brushed everything hard, seemed to kick up dust but it looked a slight greenish yesterday in those spots. Will probably clean the filter again tonight just to stay ahead of issues. Running waterfall too to keep the water moving and make sure those lines are cleaned.

    Any advice would be appreciated.

    - - - Updated - - -

    oops... school bus bright yellow level
    2001, 14k gal, SWG T-9 25K cell, IG dark pebble, 1 HP WF WFE-4, Pent CC250 cartridge w/ PAP150 pent filter, Kreepy, Large rock waterfall .75 WF WFE-3 no filter on WF. Tucson AZ. "New" Pentr cartridge and filter in 5/2015. Pumps are less than 2 yrs old say 2013/2014. W-Fall cycled 2X wkly, used when swim. 1 to 2 mthly. Water replaced 5/2015.

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    Re: New Member Question

    Quote Originally Posted by 0707384 View Post
    Updated pool signature and added pic if interested... added 1 gallon yesterday and one today. I am at the school bus orange level... should I add some more bleach 10% just to make sure I stay ahead of it? Also, swept and brushed everything hard, seemed to kick up dust but it looked a slight greenish yesterday in those spots. Will probably clean the filter again tonight just to stay ahead of issues. Running waterfall too to keep the water moving and make sure those lines are cleaned.

    Any advice would be appreciated.

    - - - Updated - - -

    oops... school bus bright yellow level
    With the disclaimer that the colormatching is only sufficient as a bandaid to keep you from slipping behind, I'd boost the FC up to what you think is shock level. What you're doing is Shock Level And Maintain, and letting it drop to 10 isn't quite maintaining.

    You can cross-check by diluting a pool sample with bottled non-chlorinated water and then use that blend to test. It's not much better than the shades of orange, but if they are at least close, you'll know you're not losing ground.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: New Member Question

    Just asking, I started the SLAM process right at 72 hours ago. For starters I added ~3.7 gallons of 10% chlorine. I have added no less then 7.5 gallons since (total 11 gallons). I used the methods you listed to determine approx. FC value and then took a sample to Leslies just to see what the money boys had to say. We both came up with about 5% FC so I brought it back to ~28. I took a sample after a couple hours and tested it using both methods i.e. color and dilution. I come up with pumpkin orange (now I get it) and ~25 to 30 on the dilution. (9 to 1)

    I'm dialed in I think but is 11 gallons normal? SWG is running at 50%. Original measurements are listed in first post. Do I keep trucking or add something to the mix? At this rate I will have to throw another 22 gallons at it to "maintain" before the test kit arrives. Something is wrong and we aren't reacting to it.
    2001, 14k gal, SWG T-9 25K cell, IG dark pebble, 1 HP WF WFE-4, Pent CC250 cartridge w/ PAP150 pent filter, Kreepy, Large rock waterfall .75 WF WFE-3 no filter on WF. Tucson AZ. "New" Pentr cartridge and filter in 5/2015. Pumps are less than 2 yrs old say 2013/2014. W-Fall cycled 2X wkly, used when swim. 1 to 2 mthly. Water replaced 5/2015.

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    Re: New Member Question

    You may have less CYA than you think, since it's a pool store test.

    But it's also quite possible you have a hardy strain of algae, or some ammonia, or algae hiding in a light niche or wherever. It's common for the pool to guzzle chlorine at the outset of the SLAM. That's why most people "shocking" their pools fail. They can't believe how much it takes; they hammer it hard once and can't imagine anything living through it, but it does. As you get ahead of the algae, the demand will go down. There are fewer survivors to reproduce.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: New Member Question

    Follow up... completed the SLAM process, managed to get the test kit prior to vacation. FC held (per slam) and still at ~12.5, chlorine demand dropped to right at zero two days ago, tested at less than .5 on CC and clear as a bell! Have the kiddos home from school so they will watch until we return. (Sweep, filter and check FC). That's the good news, the bad news are some of the other measurements, I'll retest when I get home but it looks like the CH is so high I'll need to dump about 70%.

    Test kit is clearly a good one. Have the XL
    2001, 14k gal, SWG T-9 25K cell, IG dark pebble, 1 HP WF WFE-4, Pent CC250 cartridge w/ PAP150 pent filter, Kreepy, Large rock waterfall .75 WF WFE-3 no filter on WF. Tucson AZ. "New" Pentr cartridge and filter in 5/2015. Pumps are less than 2 yrs old say 2013/2014. W-Fall cycled 2X wkly, used when swim. 1 to 2 mthly. Water replaced 5/2015.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New Member Question

    Congrats on getting the kit and clearing up the pool

    Post up your results when you get them. After my fresh fill a 15 months ago, seems that the CH is going to climb pretty quickly due to the evaporation and likely need to replace a good chunk of water every 3-4 years.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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