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Thread: Stabilizer /Chlorine issue/PH

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    Stabilizer /Chlorine issue/PH

    I have been having trouble keeping my FC consistent. It keeps going to the low side at about 2 to 4 ppm. I am trying to keep it up at about 7 ppm. There is no sign of algae. Water is always crystal clear. Pool temp running between 80 and 85 with a few clear days and a lot of cloudy days. Pool is used by 4 people most of the week and by 7 or so on weekends. The pool is vacuumed and brushed every other day. My CYA was 30 or a bit less and so I thought I should bump that up to 50. I did the pool math and it said to add 32 ounces of stabilizer which I did. My ph shot up from 7.4 to darker than 8.0. Is this right? I will correct the PH but it has been remaining very consistent. Did I do something wrong?
    30 ft. round Aqua Leader agp with dished out center 23,800 gallons; 1.5 hp Hayward pro matrix pump; Hayward EC50 DE filter; solar panels; solar cover

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    Re: Stabilizer /Chlorine issue/PH

    1.) From what I gathered, stabilizer should not cause PH to increase, but it could cause it to decrease. Did you double check what you put in?

    2.) 32 oz of stabilizer should only raise cya by 11 and lower PH by .2 . Pool math shows 61 oz would be needed to go from 30 to 50 given 22000 gallons of water.

    3.) In how much time does you FC go from your target of 7 to the low side of 2-4? Not seeing algae is not good enough to presume you don't have any. OCLT is recommenced to determine that. Your chlorine loss could be from organics, or just from low CYA @ 30. Raising it to 50 and seeing how that works and/or an OCLT are some places to start.

    Going from 7 fc to 4 fc in a day is probably within reason....going from 7 to 2 in a day, not so much.
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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Stabilizer /Chlorine issue/PH

    Almost sounds like you added some form of granular chlorine. The FC rise would interfere with the pH test.

    I'm surprised you need to vacuum so often with an AG pool. I'm surrounded by farm fields and woods and only vacuum once a week with an inground. Makes me wonder if you have an early algae issue. That is often characterized by what looks like a lot of dirt in the pool. An OLCT would tell you if you are.
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    Re: Stabilizer /Chlorine issue/PH

    The reason I need to vacuum so often is that birch and maple trees are dropping their seeds right now. If I don't go out every few days I would have to shovel the seeds out! That should be ending soon. I keep brushing just in case there is any algae but the pool is crystal clear and glowing. It has been terribly humid here but alternating between sun and clouds/rain and so the highest air temps are no more than 88. No more than 2 or 3 days in a row with full sun.

    Pool readings this morning were:

    FC 4.5
    CC 0
    PH8.0
    TA 140
    CYA 40
    I want to raise the CYA to 50 as a goal and have a sock filled with stabilizer by the return. I used HTH stabilizer (CYA) which I just checked to make sure it was correct. It came in a 64 oz bottle in granular form and we used half of it. Both my husband and I verified that yesterday the CYA was 30 and I am surprised the CYA is registering 40 today??? I thought it would take longer to show any rise. Scott was also correct that to go from 30 to 50 in CYA I should have put in 62 oz. but I wanted to raise it slowly just in case there was an error. Now I am glad I did.

    I have been fighting to keep the FC above 4ppm all summer. I have slammed the pool several times including this past weekend. That's why I decided to try and raise the CYA. About an hour ago I put in 90 oz. of bleach and just went out and retested and the PH now looks more like between7.6 and 7.8. Something just seems whacky here.
    30 ft. round Aqua Leader agp with dished out center 23,800 gallons; 1.5 hp Hayward pro matrix pump; Hayward EC50 DE filter; solar panels; solar cover

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Stabilizer /Chlorine issue/PH

    How are you chlorinating? How often? I almost wonder if you do not realize that chlorine is consumed daily and needs to be added daily.
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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Stabilizer /Chlorine issue/PH

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggledog View Post
    The reason I need to vacuum so often is that birch and maple trees are dropping their seeds right now. If I don't go out every few days I would have to shovel the seeds out! That should be ending soon. I keep brushing just in case there is any algae but the pool is crystal clear and glowing. It has been terribly humid here but alternating between sun and clouds/rain and so the highest air temps are no more than 88. No more than 2 or 3 days in a row with full sun.

    Pool readings this morning were:

    FC 4.5
    CC 0
    PH8.0
    TA 140
    CYA 40
    I want to raise the CYA to 50 as a goal and have a sock filled with stabilizer by the return. I used HTH stabilizer (CYA) which I just checked to make sure it was correct. It came in a 64 oz bottle in granular form and we used half of it. Both my husband and I verified that yesterday the CYA was 30 and I am surprised the CYA is registering 40 today??? I thought it would take longer to show any rise. Scott was also correct that to go from 30 to 50 in CA I should have put in 62 oz. but I wanted to raise it slowly just in case there was an error. Now I am glad I did.

    I have been fighting to keep the FC above 4ppm all summer. I have slammed the pool several times including this past weekend. That's why I decided to try and raise the CYA. About an hour ago I put in 90 oz. of bleach and just went out and retested and the PH now looks more like between7.6 and 7.8. Something just seems whacky here.
    I battled the maple seeds this year too. They are FINALLY done.

    Sounds like you are in pretty good shape for the most part. Can't explain the sudden pH rise though.
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    Re: Stabilizer /Chlorine issue/PH

    We have been needing to add almost a full jug of chlorine ( 121 oz. of bleach at 8.25%) every day or two. That seemed a little high to me. Initially we had a CYA level of between 40 and 50 when we opened up but with almost constant rain. Having to drain water out often because of rain and also because we back washed often in the beginning due to opening up a green pool the CYA dropped to 30 -35 ish, which to me seemed a little low. The PH and the alkalinity has been pretty stable for a while now and I was floored this morning when I saw such a high PH increase. I was also surprised today to see the CYA level up to 40 already, and I had others look at it as well because that just did not seem right. From what I read it should take a while for it to register.

    Something just seems off with the CYA I put in. I only put enough into a sock to raise the CYA to 40 or so and only half of it is used up so far. I am wondering if I should just take the sock out now and see where things go for the next few days. I have been looking at other articles on similar chlorine/cya topics all morning. I just don't want to get the pool out of whack and have to fight my way back to normal. Overall the water is looking great - I can even see the veins on the maple seeds that have dropped to the bottom of the pool.
    30 ft. round Aqua Leader agp with dished out center 23,800 gallons; 1.5 hp Hayward pro matrix pump; Hayward EC50 DE filter; solar panels; solar cover

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Stabilizer /Chlorine issue/PH

    Lets do a little math ...
    A 121oz bottle of 8.25% bleach added to a 22k pool will give you a FC rise of 3.6ppm.

    It is NORMAL to have to add 2-4ppm of FC every day due to loses to anything blown into the pool and the sun.

    Does not seem like you have a problem if you are only adding a jug every 1-2 days.
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    Re: Stabilizer /Chlorine issue/PH

    You seem to be doing just fine. What size and strength chlorine are these jugs your using?

    Even 128 oz of 12.5% is only 5.7fc for your 22000 gallons, so using 1 jug every 2 days isn't exactly a lot. Since you increased your CYA, I would just give it some time, see how the consumption goes and check CYA after 2 weeks.
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    Re: Stabilizer /Chlorine issue/PH

    Should I just remove the remainder of the stabilizer that is in the sock from the pool? I was thinking that the FC should not drop more than 1.5 ppm or so per day. I did see other threads that showed others losing 2 to3 ppm per day but they all said they had sun! We have had some sun last week but not hardly any this week. I am so sick of cold and rainy which has been basically the norm so far. Anytime there is even a streak of sun I run outside to turn the solar panels on to try to grab whatever I can. Luckily I work from home. The only thing that has kept our pool warm is that we have many solar heater panels on the roof and the few days of sun last week shot the pool temp up to 86. Without them I think we would be more like 70 to 75.
    30 ft. round Aqua Leader agp with dished out center 23,800 gallons; 1.5 hp Hayward pro matrix pump; Hayward EC50 DE filter; solar panels; solar cover

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    Re: Stabilizer /Chlorine issue/PH

    I personally would keep it in....50 cya is is pretty good, even if it gets to 60, you still have rain and backwashing/refilling that will slowly lower it. I personally shoot for 50.
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    Re: Stabilizer /Chlorine issue/PH

    Will do! Thanks again! I really appreciate this forum so much.
    30 ft. round Aqua Leader agp with dished out center 23,800 gallons; 1.5 hp Hayward pro matrix pump; Hayward EC50 DE filter; solar panels; solar cover

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    Re: Stabilizer /Chlorine issue/PH

    If you really want to cover all bases, do an OCLT. If you pass that, then you know your only loss is to the sunlight and the only thing to do about it, is increase your CYA, which you've done.
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    Re: Stabilizer /Chlorine issue/PH

    Pool numbers are looking fine again this morning. I must have been having a bad day or seeing things!

    Numbers are:
    FC3.5 (will raise it to 7)
    CC0
    PH 7.4
    TA140 (will try to bring that down some by aerating)
    CYA37ish (not quite 40)

    I still want the CYA to be at 50 and did leave the sock in the pool.

    Thanks for everyone's help. I can't explain yesterday.
    30 ft. round Aqua Leader agp with dished out center 23,800 gallons; 1.5 hp Hayward pro matrix pump; Hayward EC50 DE filter; solar panels; solar cover

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    Re: Stabilizer /Chlorine issue/PH

    My husband is starting to complain about all the bleach we are buying and estimates that from the beginning of May until now we are approaching the $300 mark at $2.98 a bottle from Walmart. Initially we opened up to a swamp and it took a week of adding at least 25 gallons of bleach to get it stable. We have had crystal clear water ever since and I am happy but I just want to make sure that the amount of bleach I am using does not mean that I could be missing something.

    Pool is currently between 86 and 92 degrees in the past week.
    FC = 1.0 ( I have been away for a few days and asked my son to put a half gallon of bleach in each day but obviously that was not enough. I have been trying to keep it at 7 ppm) He has had maybe 5 people over per day for several hours at a time.
    CC = .5
    PH = 7.6
    TA = 140
    CYA = 50

    Does this look right? We just added 2 gallons of bleach to bring it back to roughly 8ppm. He is pushing me to go back to tablets and I really do not want to because I like the look and feel of the pool. It really is clear, even at night when I look through the water with underwater lights on.
    30 ft. round Aqua Leader agp with dished out center 23,800 gallons; 1.5 hp Hayward pro matrix pump; Hayward EC50 DE filter; solar panels; solar cover

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    Re: Stabilizer /Chlorine issue/PH

    Something doesn't sound right. You should be using between 1/2 and 1 gallon a day (probably closer to 1/2 now that your CYA is up a bit higher) so maybe 4 bottles a week. Beginning of May is ~7 weeks ago, so 4x7 = ~28 bottles for maintenance plus ~25 to clear the pool is just over 50, nowhere near 100.

    Approaching $300 implies ~70 bottles just for maintenance, ie 10 bottles a week. Are you really averaging 1-1/2 gallons a day ?

    You'll want to look for sales on bleach and stock up a bit when you find them, but even at full price it seems to me you would be spending ~$15 or so per week on bleach.
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    Re: Stabilizer /Chlorine issue/PH

    I'm sorry, I disagree bridgman.

    It does not sound unusual at all, especially given the amount of pool use. In light of that, it sounds pretty good actually.

    Chlorine is consumed no matter where it comes from and every pool is different. This one sounds very normal and ok on FC use to me.
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    Re: Stabilizer /Chlorine issue/PH

    I have an AGP with a solar cover, but I know that when the water temp rises, and I have to take the cover off to keep it from getting too warm.....I start losing a lot more fc for the day. WOW....86 - 92......I was at 71 over the weekend.
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    Re: Stabilizer /Chlorine issue/PH

    Quote Originally Posted by Brushpup View Post
    I'm sorry, I disagree bridgman.

    It does not sound unusual at all, especially given the amount of pool use. In light of that, it sounds pretty good actually.

    Chlorine is consumed no matter where it comes from and every pool is different. This one sounds very normal and ok on FC use to me.
    In case it helps, I'm not saying something is wrong with chlorine usage (post #7 among others suggests they're using a gallon every day or two), I'm saying that if you multiply daily usage (from Wiggledog's posts) by the number of days since the start of May the result shouldn't be approaching 100 jugs. Maybe 60 (including 25 for initial SLAM) but not 100.
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    Re: Stabilizer /Chlorine issue/PH

    Fair enough, and yes it does. I was speaking strictly about usage. I agree on your assessment of the bottles used. Doesn't add up.
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