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Thread: SWG and Two Speed Pumps

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    SWG and Two Speed Pumps

    I am in the process of installing a new SWG that I just purchased and have a couple of questions about the combination of two speed motors and SWG's. I currently have the Hayward super pump spx2610x15 pump and motor setup. Motor is a 1.5 hp 56j frame 115v setup. I would like to swap it out for a 3/4 or 1 hp. two speed motor in the same voltage. I do not currently have any type of timer. i have looked at motors with the built in timers, but i do not believe the SWG can be configured to turn on or off at the same time as the timer without installing an external timer (intermatic,etc) and calibrating both units to function on off at the same time. Could I possibly wire the SWG into the pump timer control and have it power on and off with the pump? If not what would be my best options as far as a external timer to run the two speed pump and SWG together. I have looked at the Century Centurion b2981, although it shows as a 56y frame? I assume an extra wire would have to be run from the pump motor to the timer to allow for the two speeds. The SWG purchased was a Circupool si-45+. Thanks
    16x32 IG vinyl
    24000 gallons
    Hayward super pump 1.5HP
    Hayward Pro Series Filter S244T
    3 returns, bottom drain, skimmer

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    sargent's Avatar
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    Re: SWG and Two Speed Pumps

    How about a B973? It is a 3/4 hp. See this page. You would need to change your impeller to keep from overloading your motor.

    Intermatic T101 is a good mechanical timer for 115v. It is just an on/off timer. To switch from low to high you would need a SPDT (three-way) switch. The way I did it is I put a SPDT toggle switch in my intermatic box and ran three wires (common, low, and high) to the motor. My SWG is also wired to the intermatic timer.
    14k gal IG vinyl, Jandy Flopro 1 hp up-rated, 2 spd pump, Hayward 325 sq ft cartridge filter, Circupool Si-40 SWCG

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    Re: SWG and Two Speed Pumps

    Can't speak to motors with built in timers. I installed a similar motor (b2980) along with a TightWatt2 controller.

    You have to run one extra conductor to the pump for the low speed. Make sure you match the gauge of the existing wire.

    I connected my SWG in parallel with the low side of the pump, so when the pump is on low the SWG is powered. This is configuration is preferred since the SWG won't be relying on the flow sensor to turn on and off (which can be unreliable).

    The TightWatt controller controls both high and low on the main pump as well as the booster pump for the cleaner.
    It is smart enough to "protect" the booster by ensuring that the main pump is running for a minute before the booster turns on.
    Also, you can set separate run times for summer (long run times) and winter (short run times) and it extrapolates month by month, increasing run time as it is needed.
    Separate run times can be set for each channel (high, low, aux).
    It is also simple and cheap to add a freeze sensor.

    I have mine set to run daily on high for 10 minutes, to ensure that the pump is primed. Then it switches to low for the day along with the SWG.
    Other than the programmed run times, you can start a manual run. When I want to clean the pool I have it configured so one push of a button runs high and booster together for one hour.

    Many people here prefer the Intermatic P1352ME, which has many of the same capabilities, with the exception of the run time extrapolation (aka TightWatt) feature.
    TFP Method Advanced Intermediate
    • 17,500 gallons - In Ground - Plaster - Hayward Swimclear 3020 Cartridge Filter - Sta-Rite Max-E-Glas Main Pump upgraded with A.O. Smith B2980 E-Plus New Centurion Two-Speed Motor - Polaris 280 Cleaner with Polaris PB4-60 Booster Pump - TightWatt2 Timer - Taylor K-2006 Test Kit - Pool Pilot Digital Nano SWCG

    Helpful Links: Pool School, BBB for Beginners, How to Shock (hint...it's a process not a product), Chlorine/CYA Chart, Jason's Pool Calculator

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    svenpup's Avatar
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    Re: SWG and Two Speed Pumps

    I think the b2981 (CSCR low speed) is a better motor than the B973 (PSC high and low). The SF Amps on the b2981 is less than half that of the B973 for low speed. I believe this means that you will realize more savings with the b2981, and they are no more expensive online.
    TFP Method Advanced Intermediate
    • 17,500 gallons - In Ground - Plaster - Hayward Swimclear 3020 Cartridge Filter - Sta-Rite Max-E-Glas Main Pump upgraded with A.O. Smith B2980 E-Plus New Centurion Two-Speed Motor - Polaris 280 Cleaner with Polaris PB4-60 Booster Pump - TightWatt2 Timer - Taylor K-2006 Test Kit - Pool Pilot Digital Nano SWCG

    Helpful Links: Pool School, BBB for Beginners, How to Shock (hint...it's a process not a product), Chlorine/CYA Chart, Jason's Pool Calculator

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    Re: SWG and Two Speed Pumps

    Quote Originally Posted by svenpup View Post
    I think the b2981 (CSCR low speed) is a better motor than the B973 (PSC high and low). The SF Amps on the b2981 is less than half that of the B973 for low speed. I believe this means that you will realize more savings with the b2981, and they are no more expensive online.
    B2981 is a 56Y frame. B973 is 56J. Superpumps take a 56J.

    Also, you cannot judge the efficiency of a motor by the nameplate amps. That simply tells you the maximum amps allowed, not what an impeller will load the motor to. Most two speed motors will draw about the same amps on high and low speeds despite the label ratings being different.

    But for a SuperPump, you are better off with a smaller diameter motor. I would get the impeller from a SP2607x102S and use a STS1072RV1. However, if you need 115v, then go with the B973 but you may need to modify the motor support because that is a larger diameter motor and the OEM motor is a small diameter.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    svenpup's Avatar
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    Re: SWG and Two Speed Pumps

    Good answer Mas. Thanks for straightening me out!


    TFP Method Advanced Intermediate
    • 17,500 gallons - In Ground - Plaster - Hayward Swimclear 3020 Cartridge Filter - Sta-Rite Max-E-Glas Main Pump upgraded with A.O. Smith B2980 E-Plus New Centurion Two-Speed Motor - Polaris 280 Cleaner with Polaris PB4-60 Booster Pump - TightWatt2 Timer - Taylor K-2006 Test Kit - Pool Pilot Digital Nano SWCG

    Helpful Links: Pool School, BBB for Beginners, How to Shock (hint...it's a process not a product), Chlorine/CYA Chart, Jason's Pool Calculator

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    Re: SWG and Two Speed Pumps

    B2973 is the updated version of the B973. The link is actually to the B2973, Inyo just uses the old model number as their part number.

    I believe all of the B2xxx motors are the same technology so it should be a CSCR motor though I have not verified.
    TFP Moderator Chris V. ~16K Pool & Spa, 48NSF DE, IG Plaster Circa 2000, Intermatic PE653, Challenger pump with a 2 speed B2984, 20gal stenner chlorine injection, Houston, TX
    One cannot follow Islam and Christianity at the same time, nor can one follow pool store methods and TFP at the same time.
    Pool School -- Pool Math -- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: SWG and Two Speed Pumps

    Any opinions on the timer? I just cant decide between buying a basic timer and hooking up the SWG and pump to it and manually changing speeds via a switch on the pump motor or trying to configure a low and high speed setup in the timer. Any possible issues with the SWG on low speed as far as low flow with the two speed? Opinions on the two speed energy efficient two speed motors as opposed as the regular two speeds.
    16x32 IG vinyl
    24000 gallons
    Hayward super pump 1.5HP
    Hayward Pro Series Filter S244T
    3 returns, bottom drain, skimmer

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    Re: SWG and Two Speed Pumps

    I've got a B2984 and love it. I cant speak to flow rate and SWG from direct experience, from what I understand it is a non issue (not an expert on that one, just relaying what I've read in other threads.)
    TFP Moderator Chris V. ~16K Pool & Spa, 48NSF DE, IG Plaster Circa 2000, Intermatic PE653, Challenger pump with a 2 speed B2984, 20gal stenner chlorine injection, Houston, TX
    One cannot follow Islam and Christianity at the same time, nor can one follow pool store methods and TFP at the same time.
    Pool School -- Pool Math -- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: SWG and Two Speed Pumps

    Unless you have some particular reason to automatically switch to high, I would recommend a simple on-off mechanical timer and a switch to manually change from low to high. That is what I have. It is cheap and reliable. The pump is almost always on low, and it is not hard at all to flip the switch when I want to vacuum.

    I have a SWG, a Circupool Si-40, and low flow has never been a problem. My suction line is 1.5" with only one skimmer and no drain. I have three returns with 1.5" pipe, but I have shut off two of the returns and still had plenty of flow for the SWG. That is just my experience, but I think it is rare for a two speed pump to not have enough flow on low for a SWG.

    As far as energy efficiency goes, most of your gain will be from running on low speed. Having an efficient motor gains you just a little more efficiency and may not be worth the additional cost.
    14k gal IG vinyl, Jandy Flopro 1 hp up-rated, 2 spd pump, Hayward 325 sq ft cartridge filter, Circupool Si-40 SWCG

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    Re: SWG and Two Speed Pumps

    Do you just run the SWG any time that the pump is running? I would like to be able to turn the SWG on and off during the pump run cycle. I am sure my pump run cycle will be longer than normal. Is it best to run the SWG longer cycles at a lower output setting,or higher output for a shorter period? Just trying to figure out how to maximize the cell life.
    16x32 IG vinyl
    24000 gallons
    Hayward super pump 1.5HP
    Hayward Pro Series Filter S244T
    3 returns, bottom drain, skimmer

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    Re: SWG and Two Speed Pumps

    Generally run the swg any time the pump is running. Dial back the intensity to the percentage that gives you the proper CL level.


    TFP Moderator Chris V. ~16K Pool & Spa, 48NSF DE, IG Plaster Circa 2000, Intermatic PE653, Challenger pump with a 2 speed B2984, 20gal stenner chlorine injection, Houston, TX
    One cannot follow Islam and Christianity at the same time, nor can one follow pool store methods and TFP at the same time.
    Pool School -- Pool Math -- TF-Test Kit

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: SWG and Two Speed Pumps

    For cell life it doesn't matter. The cell will need to be active a certain amount of time each day in order to get the chlorine you need in the pool. Just run it when the pump is running and set the level accordingly.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: SWG and Two Speed Pumps

    That time clock is a very good one. I'm an electricial contractor and have used/ installed that very one many times. I run the same set up on my pump and swg at this time.

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    Re: SWG and Two Speed Pumps

    Quote Originally Posted by tnewton7 View Post
    Do you just run the SWG any time that the pump is running?
    Yes. You connect the SWG wiring to downstream of the timer so when the pump kicks on the SWG does as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by tnewton7 View Post
    Is it best to run the SWG longer cycles at a lower output setting,or higher output for a shorter period?
    Set the pump run time to whatever is needed to circulate and clean the pool. For some that can be as little as four hours. Then set the percentage on the SWG to whatever is needed to keep up with the chlorine demand. If you get to 100 percent on the SWG, then you will want to increase the pump run time. That is the scheme to get you the least electric energy cost. Having a longer pump run time with a lower percentage on the SWG will not affect the life of the cell.
    14k gal IG vinyl, Jandy Flopro 1 hp up-rated, 2 spd pump, Hayward 325 sq ft cartridge filter, Circupool Si-40 SWCG

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    Re: SWG and Two Speed Pumps

    Any opinions on motors with onboard timers? Another issue that I have is the wife likes to have the pump on whenever she is in the pool. I am thinking the intermatic timer would be the way to go. Then she could just pop it open and kick it into manual. I see that some of the pentair whisperflo models have the hi-low switch mounted to the housing. It does not look like they come in a 115v setup,though. Would it be feasible to switch over to a 230 volt setup? Wiring to the pad is #12 so making room in the panel for the double pole would be the only. Legs are full and I already have a couple of double minis in there. I know a impeller change is in the works,what about the diffuser?
    16x32 IG vinyl
    24000 gallons
    Hayward super pump 1.5HP
    Hayward Pro Series Filter S244T
    3 returns, bottom drain, skimmer

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    sargent's Avatar
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    Re: SWG and Two Speed Pumps

    I think on-board timers can be manually switched on, so that should satisfy your wife. One problem with an on-board timer is that the timer does not turn the SWG off and on. You can use a current sensor with a relay switch the SWG, but it makes more sense to me to have an external timer if you have a SWG.

    The Whisperflo does have a couple of 2-speed 115 volt models. For instance, look at this 1 hp uprated pump. A Whisperflo will move more water than you need, so it will not be as energy efficient as having a smaller pump.

    It may be feasible to convert to 230 volt. If you do that, a Superflo would be a better (more economical both in initial cost and in electricity cost) pump to get than the Whisperflo.

    I have my hi-low switch mounted on my timer box. I just drilled a 1/2" hole in the bottom of the box and attached a SPDT toggle switch.
    14k gal IG vinyl, Jandy Flopro 1 hp up-rated, 2 spd pump, Hayward 325 sq ft cartridge filter, Circupool Si-40 SWCG

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    Re: SWG and Two Speed Pumps

    Is that a link to the actual switch you used? I am assuming your setup is 230 volt. I am considering switching over to 230 volt for the whole setup, as the selection of 2 speed pumps is much greater. Already have 2 runs of #12 wire going out there, so it would just be a matter of changing out breaker.
    16x32 IG vinyl
    24000 gallons
    Hayward super pump 1.5HP
    Hayward Pro Series Filter S244T
    3 returns, bottom drain, skimmer

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    sargent's Avatar
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    SWG and Two Speed Pumps

    That is the actual switch I use. I do have a 230 volt pump.


    14k gal IG vinyl, Jandy Flopro 1 hp up-rated, 2 spd pump, Hayward 325 sq ft cartridge filter, Circupool Si-40 SWCG

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    Re: SWG and Two Speed Pumps

    I am planning on using a Intermatic t104r timer and the SPDT toggle that you are using. I believe that the 104r is capable of running two devices,as long as the on-off cycles are the same. Sound right to you? That box looks a little small for what I will be trying to put in it. I will be using 3 knockouts plus drilling a small hole for the toggle. Think one knockout on each side, one on the bottom, and the switch drilled on the bottom would work?
    16x32 IG vinyl
    24000 gallons
    Hayward super pump 1.5HP
    Hayward Pro Series Filter S244T
    3 returns, bottom drain, skimmer

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