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Thread: Frustrated!!!

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    Frustrated!!!

    I live in Central California and have been using the BBB method since I last year after I just purchased the house. Can you guys talk me out of not switching back to Tablets. Our weather has been over 100 and will reach 107 tomorrow and I cannot keep my chlorine levels up with this intensive heat. I know in the spring and late fall it works great but the summer I think I need to switch back to tablets. I can tell you this that using the BBB method in our area is not as cost effective. Bleach is 3.00 plus a gallon and now you are not even getting a gallon of bleach for that price. I am using about 3 gallons a week or so to keep it up.

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    Mod Squad woodyp's Avatar
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    Re: Frustrated!!!

    How about some test results and some info about your pool and equipment add in a signature line in your profile? Help us out so we can help you!
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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Frustrated!!!

    It sounds like your CYA level may not be high enough. Heat doesn't seem to bother FC as much as sunlight, except indirectly: more people get in the pool when it's hot.

    The place to start is a full set of test results. And take your time doing the CYA test. There's no shame in pouring the sample back and forth between the mixing bottle and the view tube ten or twelve times until you're satisfied.

    You might check for a dealer for 12.5% chlorine here: http://www.hasapool.com/index.php?ID=3190&PID=0 It's what I use. Just pay the deposit on the jugs and the crate once and after that it's about $3.50 for a full gallon. Call some dealers and get pricing.
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    Re: Frustrated!!!

    If the tablets will work well for you, then it is not our position to keep you from using them.

    While most all who practice what we teach save money, it does not appear to work well in your situation....all pools are different.

    Keep an eye on your pH and CYA and manage your pool in a way that makes sense to you.
    Dave S.
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    Re: Frustrated!!!

    No one here in the know, is against using pucks or any other source of Chlorine entirely, it is about understanding what is going on in the pool, and what you are putting in. Then, understanding what effects different things have when they are added.

    There is a reason you are not holding Chlorine, but it is not due to any shortcoming of what we teach here. There is something else going wrong, but if you feel you can manage it better with whatever you want to do, you should do it by all means. Do what works for you and go enjoy the Summer!
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    Re: Frustrated!!!

    Main problem with using tablets is that it will take your CYA back up again, and you'll end up having to drain/refill again.

    I guess the cost comparison should probably be (cost of bleach) vs (cost of tabs plus 1 or 2 annual 50% drain/refill cycles) ?
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    Re: Frustrated!!!

    I have been taking care of a swimming pool since the age of thirteen, I am 54 now. If you READ the information on this site and do your homework, go through pool school, take the time to understand pool chemistry, actually do a CYA test and understand what it is, all the tools and information to get and keep your pool totally sparkling clean are right here. I have never seen a more complete program of how to take care of pool water anywhere! The help you can get from the moderators is priceless. You can take advice from the "pool store" or you can save hundreds,even thousands of dollars and apply the principals that you can learn here. Good Luck!!
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    Mod Squad woodyp's Avatar
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    Re: Frustrated!!!

    Give that man a Gold Star!
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    Re: Frustrated!!!

    If you are going to factor in comparative costs, then when using Trichlor don't forget to add the cost of pH Up that is usually needed to maintain the pH and add in the cost of whatever else you do to prevent algae growth with the CYA level rises, such as partial drain/refill water cost, algicide (e.g. Polyquat 60 weekly), or phosphate remover.

    You didn't post your CYA level and as Richard noted earlier, it may be too low. If it's not at 80 ppm, you might need to get it that high in your situation, but be sure and have the FC be higher according to the Chlorine / CYA Chart. How much FC are you losing per day? Is it more than 2 ppm?
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    Re: Frustrated!!!

    joegus,

    What a very nice post....Thank you! This really is a great collection of some nice people willing to share what they know about pools so others can pass it on, too.

    Your words are very kind and i know many, many, many of our members are appreciative of you saying that.....I know I am!
    Dave S.
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    Re: Frustrated!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by joegus View Post
    I have been taking care of a swimming pool since the age of thirteen, I am 54 now. If you READ the information on this site and do your homework, go through pool school, take the time to understand pool chemistry, actually do a CYA test and understand what it is, all the tools and information to get and keep your pool totally sparkling clean are right here. I have never seen a more complete program of how to take care of pool water anywhere! The help you can get from the moderators is priceless. You can take advice from the "pool store" or you can save hundreds,even thousands of dollars and apply the principals that you can learn here. Good Luck!!
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    Re: Frustrated!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by joegus View Post
    I have been taking care of a swimming pool since the age of thirteen, I am 54 now. If you READ the information on this site and do your homework, go through pool school, take the time to understand pool chemistry, actually do a CYA test and understand what it is, all the tools and information to get and keep your pool totally sparkling clean are right here. I have never seen a more complete program of how to take care of pool water anywhere! The help you can get from the moderators is priceless. You can take advice from the "pool store" or you can save hundreds,even thousands of dollars and apply the principals that you can learn here. Good Luck!!
    I have read and went through pool school, my CYA was high when i first purchased the home and I drained over 1/2 the pool and started fresh. I see that you are from PA and today was a high here of 105 and tomorrow will be a high of 107. I am all for the BBB theory and what it is does but it's costing me a boat load of money. I tested the chlorine level today about 2 hours before I normally do each day and I was at a 1.0 reading. The sun beating on this pool the bleach method is just not enough to withstand. I have not tested my CYA levels yet as the super duper test kit I have only allows for about 3 tests before you have to replace. My PH and FC levels is what I test daily.

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    Re: Frustrated!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by djscotty14 View Post
    Bleach is 3.00 plus a gallon and now you are not even getting a gallon of bleach for that price. I am using about 3 gallons a week or so to keep it up.
    :
    I am all for the BBB theory and what it is does but it's costing me a boat load of money.
    About 10 dollars a week is a boat load of money? I'm having a hard time understanding why you're "frustrated!!!". It's costing you about $1.43 per day to maintain the fc in your swimming pool in 100 + degree heat. What is your cost per day to maintain the fc with tabs?

    Tabs can have a place, but using strictly tabs will eventually cause your cyanuric acid to get too high and then you would need to do a partial drain and refill to get the level down.

    The method and philosophy we teach is not really BBB, it's the Trouble Free Pool Care method. It is not about bleach or any other specific chemical. It is about having good test results, and knowing what to add, and why. It is about maintaining the pool with good results at a reasonable cost over the life of the pool.

    One of the cornerstones of the method is having a good, complete FAS-DPD test kit. Without the kit, you really cannot practice what we teach.

    In any case, you're free to do whatever you choose and whatever you feel works for you.

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    Re: Frustrated!!!

    Which kit do you have ? The K-2006 (which I have) is good for 7-8 CYA tests and the reagent is cheap to replace. An 8 oz refill (equivalent to 10-11 of the K-2006 bottles) is $8 plus shipping from tftestkits. In theory the kit is good for 6 tests (22ml bottles, 7ml per test) but in practice the bottles in my kit seemed to hold closer to 28ml.

    BTW the kit comes with two R-0013 bottles (the reagent used for CYA test), maybe you've only used one so far ? I discovered I had been alternating between the two bottles while trying to figure out why I hadn't run out of reagent yet

    It's really worth getting a current CYA reading if you want to stay on top of chlorine usage. CYA level sometimes drops over the winter so you might be a bit low; if so then raising it to ~50 would reduce your chlorine usage even if though you would have to maintain a slightly higher FC level (although you might want to keep it a bit below 50 so you have some wiggle room for using tabs when you go on vacation.

    What CYA level are you assuming when setting the FC level with bleach ? What FC level are you targeting ?

    Note that chlorine level is going to drop the same amount from UV exposure whether you are using bleach, tabs, powder or bubbling chlorine gas. Trichlor can be a bit cheaper than bleach per unit of chlorine but AFAICS you end up paying more after you take the side effects into account... and all of the other sources seem to be more expensive.

    In general the cheapest solution for chlorinating a pool seems to be stocking up on bleach when it goes on sale .
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    Re: Frustrated!!!

    You could use both tabs and liquid chlorine or regular 8.25% sodium hypochlorite bleach. You don't have to choose one or the other.

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    Re: Frustrated!!!

    You can also check prices for chlorinating liquid. You can find Hasa dealers by entering in your zip code. You may be able to find 12.5% chlorinating liquid for less than $4 per gallon which would be equivalent to $2.64 per gallon for 8.25% bleach. And if your CYA is indeed low, then Trichlor tabs would let you increase it at the same time as chlorine dosing.

    As others have noted, there is absolutely no difference in chlorine loss rate using chlorinating liquid or bleach vs. Trichlor tabs. The difference is that Trichlor increases CYA and that will eventually have lower chlorine loss rate due to higher CYA levels, but you can just have the higher CYA level without needing to use Trichlor tabs at that point.
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    Re: Frustrated!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by djscotty14 View Post
    I have read and went through pool school, my CYA was high when i first purchased the home and I drained over 1/2 the pool and started fresh. I see that you are from PA and today was a high here of 105 and tomorrow will be a high of 107. I am all for the BBB theory and what it is does but it's costing me a boat load of money. I tested the chlorine level today about 2 hours before I normally do each day and I was at a 1.0 reading. The sun beating on this pool the bleach method is just not enough to withstand. I have not tested my CYA levels yet as the super duper test kit I have only allows for about 3 tests before you have to replace. My PH and FC levels is what I test daily.
    I feel your frustration. But you are doubting the TFP system without knowing where you are. Especially your CYA level which is critical to making ANY sanitizing agent effective. You are undoubtedly experiencing chlorine loss at a rapid level. My guess is you have a very high CYA level or an active algae problem. Even with your high temperatures and sun, the loss should not be that high. Be patient, take the proper readings and see where you are at first. Pool care takes much patience. The moderators and experienced senior members have dealt with all conditions and climates. Have Faith! This system works. Be systematic, listen to the guys and CYA (in both respects! LOL)
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    Re: Frustrated!!!

    The peace of mind that TFPC gives me is priceless - after 10 years chained to the pool store nonsense of constantly creating, fixing, creating, fixing problems....

    If bleach prices tripled, I wouldn't bat an eye.


    OF course, losing that much water in the California sun may make your overall net CYA increase less than catastrophic (!) - you can always go back to TFPC later I guess.
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    Re: Frustrated!!!

    I found the bleach cheaper than the tablets/bags of "shock" and all the other junk that goes along with it.
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  20. Back To Top    #20

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    Re: Frustrated!!!

    I am new to posting on the forum but have been following for a few years now. 99% of the posts of the problems that pool owners have can be easily solved if they would follow the general rules.
    1. Buy an accurate test kit
    2. TEST YOUR CYA / TEST YOUR CYA /TEST YOUR CYA/ TEST YOUR CYA
    How many times will people avoid doing this, make up a number or trust a test strip?!!!!
    Once you know your CYA level, most everything else will fall into place. Add Bleach to correct chlorine level.Slam your pool if neccessary, Adjust your PH, let your water stabilize and/or clear up, adjust your TA and for the most part enjoy your pool!!
    Over 90% of the pool owners only need to do this. Seek additional support if this doesn't work. Enjoy the water guys!!
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