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Thread: Noobie chemistry question

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    sam03v's Avatar
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    Noobie chemistry question

    This past week I started testing my pool with a TF100 kit. I previously was making trips on the weekends to the pool store so it's fun doing this at home. I've read thru many posts and can't find a simple answer to my situation so here goes...


    FC:4
    CC:0
    TC: 4
    PH: 7.5
    CYA:60

    According to the chart my minimum FC is 5 at that cya level. So is it better to drain water or add chlorine? The pool math , if I'm doing it right shows I'll need to drain 1/3 of the pool or add the chlorine. I've been using the 3" tablets in my inline chlorinator and liquid chlorine for shocking the past two seasons, also relying on the pool store for directions. So, I guess I don't mind draining if that gets me back to a good starting point testing myself .

    Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
    24000 gallon, 18' x 36' IG with deep end, vinyl, built 1986, new liner 2012,
    3/4 hp uprated 2 spd on hayward super pump
    1.5" dia lines, sand filter, polaris 360
    TF-100 test kit

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Noobie chemistry question

    You can maintain the pool with no problem at 60 CYA as long as you keep the FC above the minimum of 5.

    The problem is, it won't stay at 60 if you keep feeding it pucks. For every 10 FC you add to the pool via pucks, you're also adding 6.1 CYA. At a typical low loss of 2 ppm/day, that's 14 FC and 8.5 CYA every single week. When CYA goes up to 70 next week, FC will need to be higher. And upwards it climbs.

    One solution is to drain a bunch of water every week. A simpler one is to ditch the pucks and use bleach to chlorinate daily. If you keep up with the daily maintenance, you'll never need to shock the pool again. After a couple weeks, you'll know your pool's appetite pretty good and can just dose it every day and test every other. But that only comes when you reach the point of guessing correctly what you'll see before you run the tests.

    Have you been reading the articles in pool school?
    To start, I'd recommend http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...nate-your-pool
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    northrn's Avatar
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    Re: Noobie chemistry question

    Those numbers are similar to mine. I found it was just as cost effective to add a little more bleach each day (I goal for a FC of 9 and never allow it to fall below 5) than to drain and fill at this time. That being said, Ohio is much different than northern Florida.
    27' AG 18K Gallons ~ Cartridge Filter ~ Pentair 1.5 HP Pump

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    svenpup's Avatar
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    Re: Noobie chemistry question

    How are you going to be chlorinating now? 60 is manageable as long you are no longer using tablets.

    Is your water clear?

    If your water is cloudy or green I would drain / refill prior to slamming. If your water is clear I would leave it, but only use bleach to sanitize (no tabs or granular shock).


    TFP Method Advanced Intermediate
    • 17,500 gallons - In Ground - Plaster - Hayward Swimclear 3020 Cartridge Filter - Sta-Rite Max-E-Glas Main Pump upgraded with A.O. Smith B2980 E-Plus New Centurion Two-Speed Motor - Polaris 280 Cleaner with Polaris PB4-60 Booster Pump - TightWatt2 Timer - Taylor K-2006 Test Kit - Pool Pilot Digital Nano SWCG

    Helpful Links: Pool School, BBB for Beginners, How to Shock (hint...it's a process not a product), Chlorine/CYA Chart, Jason's Pool Calculator

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    Re: Noobie chemistry question

    I hate it when multiple people post while I am typing. Richard, is this your full time job now?


    TFP Method Advanced Intermediate
    • 17,500 gallons - In Ground - Plaster - Hayward Swimclear 3020 Cartridge Filter - Sta-Rite Max-E-Glas Main Pump upgraded with A.O. Smith B2980 E-Plus New Centurion Two-Speed Motor - Polaris 280 Cleaner with Polaris PB4-60 Booster Pump - TightWatt2 Timer - Taylor K-2006 Test Kit - Pool Pilot Digital Nano SWCG

    Helpful Links: Pool School, BBB for Beginners, How to Shock (hint...it's a process not a product), Chlorine/CYA Chart, Jason's Pool Calculator

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    sam03v's Avatar
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    Re: Noobie chemistry question

    Thanks so much for the quick reply! I have read most of the articles in pool school, and was planning on stopping the puck poison . Funny how the pool store never mentions the cya side affect of pucks. I don't mind using the jugs to keep the water balanced. The p.s. is only a few miles away so I can get the concentrated bleach at a reasonable price. As you said it'll just take some experience.

    Does a higher cya and higher fc level irritate skin and eyes? Or will it be okay as long as I keep it below shock level ratio? I ask because on the print out I get from the p.s. it says 2-4 ppm FC is ideal...

    Thanks again

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by svenpup View Post
    How are you going to be chlorinating now? 60 is manageable as long you are no longer using tablets.

    Is your water clear?

    If your water is cloudy or green I would drain / refill prior to slamming. If your water is clear I would leave it, but only use bleach to sanitize (no tabs or granular shock).


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Water is clear, but is getting a little of the green stuff on the walls, it brushes off easily...I'm going to start using liquid chlorine for chlorination.

    Thanks!
    24000 gallon, 18' x 36' IG with deep end, vinyl, built 1986, new liner 2012,
    3/4 hp uprated 2 spd on hayward super pump
    1.5" dia lines, sand filter, polaris 360
    TF-100 test kit

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    Charlie_R's Avatar
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    Re: Noobie chemistry question

    Pool stores generally don't take the CYA into account. Your minimum of 5 FC should be considered a hard limit.

    Since you are saying you have green on the walls, I would suggest drain and refill to a CYA of 30, and SLAM your pool. If you don't, the algae will remain, and be a constant problem for you.
    15'x48" 4500 gallon Intex pool, buried 1.5 ft. Pac-Fab Dynamo 3/4 hp pump. Hayward S180T sand filter, bought used. Taylor K-2006 test kit. Rocket mass heater based wood fired pool heater.

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    Re: Noobie chemistry question

    Nope, not irritating at all. I inherited 220+ CYA and swam in 24 FC water the first summer no problem.

    Green algae on the walls is not a good sign. If you need to SLAM, then you'll probably want to lower the CYA level by draining.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Noobie chemistry question

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320 View Post
    Nope, not irritating at all. I inherited 220+ CYA and swam in 24 FC water the first summer no problem.

    Green algae on the walls is not a good sign. If you need to SLAM, then you'll probably want to lower the CYA level by draining.
    The green stuff comes and goes. This is my second season of owning the pool and the alge usually starts at the corner of the pool with the palm tree and after brushing and shocking goes away. Last weekend I had pump problems that caused at least one day of no filtering maybe two, before it was remedied. So I'm hesitant to start draining. Any comments are greatly appreciated...
    24000 gallon, 18' x 36' IG with deep end, vinyl, built 1986, new liner 2012,
    3/4 hp uprated 2 spd on hayward super pump
    1.5" dia lines, sand filter, polaris 360
    TF-100 test kit

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    Re: Noobie chemistry question

    It is up to you. Just know this-------------

    -higher cya means more bleach

    -you need at least 30 cya if not 40 for Florida. I try to keep mine at 40 (note I am in Tallahassee, FL)

    -Green stuff=algea=need to SLAM It never really goes away. You just do not see it until it "settles" back down. It is in the water just waiting to take over. SLAM and get it GONE.

    You are doing a great job! You have the test kit AND you are asking questions. You will LOVE how easy and cheap your pool is using the TFP way!

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Noobie chemistry question

    Quote Originally Posted by kimkats View Post
    It is up to you. Just know this-------------

    -higher cya means more bleach

    -you need at least 30 cya if not 40 for Florida. I try to keep mine at 40 (note I am in Tallahassee, FL)

    -Green stuff=algea=need to SLAM It never really goes away. You just do not see it until it "settles" back down. It is in the water just waiting to take over. SLAM and get it GONE.

    You are doing a great job! You have the test kit AND you are asking questions. You will LOVE how easy and cheap your pool is using the TFP way!

    Kim
    Thanks for the comment. My cya is at 60, the numbers are in the first post. I'm also in Tallahassee, nice and cool today huh?

    I'm going to do the OCLT test tonight/tomorrow a.m. My cc is zero and the water is clear so that's two out of the three SLAM passing requisites. I'll post the results...

    Thanks again
    24000 gallon, 18' x 36' IG with deep end, vinyl, built 1986, new liner 2012,
    3/4 hp uprated 2 spd on hayward super pump
    1.5" dia lines, sand filter, polaris 360
    TF-100 test kit

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    Re: Noobie chemistry question

    We are having a monsoon at the moment, looking at the skimmer, the water level is up at least a half inch since my last post. I assume that means retesting...
    24000 gallon, 18' x 36' IG with deep end, vinyl, built 1986, new liner 2012,
    3/4 hp uprated 2 spd on hayward super pump
    1.5" dia lines, sand filter, polaris 360
    TF-100 test kit

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Noobie chemistry question

    Quote Originally Posted by sam03v View Post
    We are having a monsoon at the moment, looking at the skimmer, the water level is up at least a half inch since my last post. I assume that means retesting...
    No, rainwater won;t have that much effect. However.... it is a cheap way to get Calcium-free, CYA-free water. Check out the pics on page 2
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    sam03v's Avatar
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    Re: Noobie chemistry question

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320 View Post
    No, rainwater won;t have that much effect. However.... it is a cheap way to get Calcium-free, CYA-free water. Check out the pics on page 2
    Cool..

    The rain just stopped, but now I'm looking at clouds that remind me of that scene in Ghost Busters where they're swirling above that building...
    24000 gallon, 18' x 36' IG with deep end, vinyl, built 1986, new liner 2012,
    3/4 hp uprated 2 spd on hayward super pump
    1.5" dia lines, sand filter, polaris 360
    TF-100 test kit

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Noobie chemistry question

    If you look at our radar we have quite a bit more rain to come. You know the saying here-----don't like the weather? Wait 15 mins or drive 15 miles LOL

    It is RAINING hard here. The pond and grass are loving it! Dogs not so much due to the thunder

    Good luck with the over night!

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    sam03v's Avatar
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    Re: Noobie chemistry question

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320 View Post
    No, rainwater won;t have that much effect. However.... it is a cheap way to get Calcium-free, CYA-free water. Check out the pics on page 2
    Will rain affect the Overnight fc test? It's still raining , but I'd like to do this test over the weekend.

    Thanks
    24000 gallon, 18' x 36' IG with deep end, vinyl, built 1986, new liner 2012,
    3/4 hp uprated 2 spd on hayward super pump
    1.5" dia lines, sand filter, polaris 360
    TF-100 test kit

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Noobie chemistry question

    Quote Originally Posted by sam03v View Post
    Will rain affect the Overnight fc test? It's still raining , but I'd like to do this test over the weekend.

    Thanks
    Probably a little bit.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    sam03v's Avatar
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    Re: Noobie chemistry question

    Ok. Thanks.

    I added 1 gallon of pool store chlorine after the big down pour stopped and bumped up my pump to high speed for two hours, after which it was programmed to shut off. Right now the rain has slowed to a sprinkle so I'm going to test the fc and test again in the morning. Rain chance is low now. Mosquito chance very high! Benefit of living in FL...
    24000 gallon, 18' x 36' IG with deep end, vinyl, built 1986, new liner 2012,
    3/4 hp uprated 2 spd on hayward super pump
    1.5" dia lines, sand filter, polaris 360
    TF-100 test kit

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    sam03v's Avatar
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    Re: Noobie chemistry question

    Confused now..according to the pool math, one gallon of 10.5% chlorine should have bumped me up to 5 ppm. I added the gallon and waited at least two hours with the pump running on high speed. The drop test showed 11 ppm. Do need to wait more than one hour after adding chlorine to test?
    24000 gallon, 18' x 36' IG with deep end, vinyl, built 1986, new liner 2012,
    3/4 hp uprated 2 spd on hayward super pump
    1.5" dia lines, sand filter, polaris 360
    TF-100 test kit

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    Re: Noobie chemistry question

    Ok, I checked the f.c. 15 minutes ago and it is at 9.5, so I lost 1.5 ppm overnight. Should I SLAM the pool?
    24000 gallon, 18' x 36' IG with deep end, vinyl, built 1986, new liner 2012,
    3/4 hp uprated 2 spd on hayward super pump
    1.5" dia lines, sand filter, polaris 360
    TF-100 test kit

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