New Pool and stuck between a rock and a wife

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S

S4cruiser

0
Jan 2, 2014
66
Yeah to being a new pool owner!! My wife and I have waited a while to get to this point.

Pool specs:
11,500 gallon mountain pond shaped vinyl liner
Hayward 2spd pump
Hayward sand filter (filled with zeobrite)
Hayward PL-P4 Automation panel
Hayward SWG (T-3 Cell)
Polaris 280 with booster pump

An initial item of contention is impatience for perfect water clarity. The pool was filled with city water last week (Wednesday 5/28). Water sat for 36 hours before PB completed startup. The water was crystal clear until the pump was turned on, but turned cloudy immediately. PB added 2 bags of salt and 2 gallons of 12.5 liquid shock. After a couple of days the water was looking a little better but still cloudy.

Sunday I decided to backwash and like a new pool owner, had a dumb@ss moment and did not use the rinse setting on the multiport before turning back to filter setting. Pump blew nastiness into the pool and water was extremely cloudy.

On Sunday I started the slam process and fast forward to today the water is better but no where near clear. Still cloudy and I can barely see the bottom in the shallow end.

My test results:

Pre fill tab water test:
FC 1.0
PH 7.5
CH 50

5/29 night
FC 17
CC 1
PH 8.5 (can be disregarded based on high chlorine level)
TA 30

5/30 night
FC 7.5
CC 0
PH 7.4
Salt 4200 (per drop test...panel reads 3100ppm)

Start of slam process
6/1 night
FC .5 - added 185 oz of 8.25% bleach
CYA 0

6/2 morning
FC 11.5 - no bleach added

6/2 night
Back washed (correctly this time)
FC 2 - added 185 oz of 8.25% bleach added
Added 3lbs of Cyanuric acid

6/3 morning
FC - 18.5 - no bleach added

6/3 afternoon
FC 17 - no bleach added
CYA 25

6/3 night
FC 17 - no bleach added

6/4 morning
FC 18 - no bleach added

6/4 afternoon
FC 14 - no bleach added

6/4 night
FC 14 - no bleach added
CYA 25

6/5 morning
FC 18 (not sure why the rise unless the SWG bumped it up over night??) - no bleach added

So...my lovely wife is getting impatient which is pressuring me to get this water clear. The PB performed a complimentary (say that sarcastically) water sample which came back with phosphates at 2500. I really don't care as the way I understand it is as long as I maintain an appropriate chlorine level it's a wash. On side note, the service dept lead mentions I should raise CH, I asked why since this is a vinyl not plaster pool and he couldn't answer :).

I'm adding some cellulose fiber tonight to help the sand filter, but what else should I be doing.

I gave myself till Monday and then I'm letting my wife take the rains...I'm done hearing her complain with no suggestions other than "the pool store said"

Please help'!!!!!!
 
Just ignore phosphates completely. My phosphate level is several thousand and I don't have any issues.

Raise TA to at least around 70.

How has your filter pressure been behaving? And how frequently do you backwash?
 
If her suggestion and plan for taking the reigns is pool store says... that's a long expensive road filled with tears, empty purses and wallets.

How are you doing your testing? Pool store, test kit? Looks like good test kit results, but wanted to be sure. Add those pool specs to your signature so it can be seen in every post. (Click Settings in the upper right, then Edit Signature on the left)

SWG is not run during a SLAM since liquid chlorine is providing the FC and for the last step of a SLAM your SWG needs to be off anyway. Best to only add chlorine from one source to keep things simple.
 
JasonLion said:
Just ignore phosphates completely. My phosphate level is several thousand and I don't have any issues.

Raise TA to at least around 70.

How has your filter pressure been behaving? And how frequently do you backwash?
Click to expand...

Filter pressure has stayed fairly constant at ~20psi. I've back washed twice even though there hasn't been a measurable rise in pressure.

JVTrain said:
If her suggestion and plan for taking the reigns is pool store says... that's a long expensive road filled with tears, empty purses and wallets.

How are you doing your testing? Pool store, test kit? Looks like good test kit results, but wanted to be sure. Add those pool specs to your signature so it can be seen in every post. (Click Settings in the upper right, then Edit Signature on the left)

SWG is not run during a SLAM since liquid chlorine is providing the FC and for the last step of a SLAM your SWG needs to be off anyway. Best to only add chlorine from one source to keep things simple.
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly on pool store advice...but I can't seem to explain that to my better half without her even having a minor level of understanding.

All testing is via TF100 kit..an invaluable resource!!

So , you'd recommend turning off the SWG until the slam is complete?

freqz said:
I think this is a good idea. It doesn't take much...
Click to expand...

I hope it helps...should be delivered later today from Amazon.
 
S4cruiser said:
So , you'd recommend turning off the SWG until the slam is complete?
Click to expand...

From the SLAM procedure:
If you have a salt water chlorine generator, chlorine tablet dispenser, injection pump, or Liquidator, you will still need to use another chlorine source for SLAMing. All of these devices are designed to add chlorine slowly and steadily over many hours. To kill algae or lower CC, you need to put in lots of chlorine all at once. The SWG, tablet dispenser, injection pump, or Liquidator can be very helpful in the follow up stages to maintain FC at shock level, but for the initial couple of chlorine applications, you need to use another chlorine source.

Doesn't seem like you're burning through much FC, in fact you SWG is keeping up with SLAM levels, especially overnight when sunlight isn't eating FC, so you could still continue to use it but would want to turn it off when attempting Step 3, the OCLT. Myself, I'm not overly familiar with SWG but I'd rather just be adding chlorine from one source at a time during a SLAM so it was easy to keep track of what the FC level is doing without "guessing" what the SWG is putting out (unless I knew my SWG very well). Seems like you're in the "maintenance phase" of the SLAM waiting on water clarity rather than burning organics/algae like crazy so you may want to just leave it on and bump up with bleach if necessary. Your call I guess...

Cellulose should help speed up clarity improvement.
 
Updated test results...

This afternoon
FCC 15
TA 40
Turned off SWG
Added 2lbs baking soda
Added 3 cups Zeofiber

Tonight
FC 15

Water clarity seems unchanged...unfortunately. Also, I have experienced zero increase in filter pressure after adding the Zeofiber. Should I add more or wait until tomorrow and check filter pressure?

I appreciate the help so far! This forum is an awesome resource!
 
I would continue to SLAM and instead of using zeo whatever, use Pool Grade DE. That's what is recommended in Pool School. You should add till you get a 1lb increase in filter pressure.

I would suggest brushing your pool daily and by all means, DO NOT let the wife turn the pool over to a pool store! You will regret it! Just stay the course and keep at it!
 
Casey said:
I would continue to SLAM and instead of using zeo whatever, use Pool Grade DE. That's what is recommended in Pool School. You should add till you get a 1lb increase in filter pressure.

I would suggest brushing your pool daily and by all means, DO NOT let the wife turn the pool over to a pool store! You will regret it! Just stay the course and keep at it!
Click to expand...

Thanks!

Filter pressure did increase overnight...it was very high when I checked this AM. Back washed and pressure is normal again.

Water clarity looks improved but no where near what I'm looking for.

After back washing, should I add more cellulose fiber (I plan to use what I have instead of switching to DE...the verdict is debatable on which is better anyways).

Test result coming soon..
 

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This morning's test results
FC 15 (SWG was switched off last night so I guess I pass the OCLT)
TA 50 (I added 2 lbs of baking soda last night)

For raising my TA the pool math calc said to add 5 lbs. I only added 2lbs, not wanting to over shoot my goal of 70. Does this stuff register on the TA test pretty quick or will it continue to increase today without adding anymore??

Thanks again for everyone's help! I will resist turning it over to my wife until she pries it form by dying hands!
 
New results as of last night...
FC 11
CYA 25 (has stayed steady at this level for 4 days after adding 3lbs of CA)
TA 50
CH 75
Ph 7.5
Salt 4200ppm (tested via Taylor drop test)

I've been adding 2 cup of ZeoFiber cellulose fiber to the skimmer and back washing twice daily since Thursday evening and brushing the pool at least twice a day.

So, my water is still. It freaking clear and to say I'm getting impatient and frustrated is an understatement.

Am I missing something here or should my water not be crystal clear by now??? The water is blue-ish but I can just barely see the too main drains in the deep end (6').

Someone please share some magic tricks to get my water clear. It was crystal clear when filled before the PB performed the startup and turned on the pump.
 
If you're loading up the filter so much that you need to backwash twice a day, there's a lot of stuff in the water that needs filtering out. That just takes time. See if you can't improve circulation in the deep end by pointing a return that way. You might also want to try just pulling from the main drain and brushing everything towards it.
 
>>The water was crystal clear until the pump was turned on, but turned cloudy immediately.

Does this bother anyone ? I guess the answer is still "you have to filter it out" no matter what came out when the pump/filter was started, but I'm wondering what this "it came from the pump/filter" stuff might be ?
 
Someone please share some magic tricks to get my water clear
Click to expand...
Being intentionally snarky, You can get those products at the pool store. There is no magic in what we teach. It is simply gaining the understanding and knowledge so you can manage your own pool.

I haven't read this whole thread but please stop using zeofiber. I think I know why you are using it but please stop.

What prompts you to backwash? Are you doing it at random or are you waiting for the 25% increase in psi? What is your clean psi and your dirty psi? Are you rinsing after you backwash? For how long?
 
duraleigh said:
Being intentionally snarky, You can get those products at the pool store. There is no magic in what we teach. It is simply gaining the understanding and knowledge so you can manage your own pool.

I haven't read this whole thread but please stop using zeofiber. I think I know why you are using it but please stop.

What prompts you to backwash? Are you doing it at random or are you waiting for the 25% increase in psi? What is your clean psi and your dirty psi? Are you rinsing after you backwash? For how long?
Click to expand...

Yep, snarky was my tone as well!

Clean pressure is 20psi and I'm back washing at 24-26psi. Back washing till clean water and then rinsing for 30 seconds or so.

I was using zeo fiber to help the sand filter with fine particle filtering. Is there another cellulose fiber product you would recommend or switch to pol grade DE?

Thanks,
Jon
 
I agree with duraleigh, no reason to use the cellulose or DE right now. You can get perfectly clear water using just the sand filter. DE and cellulose just help you get perfectly clear water later on.

I had a lot of plaster dust from doing an acid wash this spring. The sand filter, along with a lot of help from my Dolphin cleaning robot, got it crystal clear - it just takes TIME - like more than 4 days.

Stop using the cellulose or DE and see how long it takes for the filter pressure to rise 25% after doing a backwash. If you are still having to backwash every day or so, it's because it is catching stuff out of the water. It just takes time for all of it to get caught by the filter.
 
chjade84 said:
I agree with duraleigh, no reason to use the cellulose or DE right now.

Stop using the cellulose or DE and see how long it takes for the filter pressure to rise 25% after doing a backwash. If you are still having to backwash every day or so, it's because it is catching stuff out of the water. It just takes time for all of it to get caught by the filter.
Click to expand...

Will do!
 
Sand filters work great if you give the sand a chance to pack down and do its job. It doesn't happen overnight though, it could take a week or two. But every time you backwash you upset the system somewhat and the filter will be less effecient at filtering out the fine stuff.

Try not addding any DE or zeofiber and let it run until the pressure rises to 25 psi based on filter load only. With brand new water, this could mean weeks or even months until you actually need to backwash.

I have a Hayward filter too with plain old sand. If you run the pump long enough every day, leave the filter alone, and keep your chlorine up at recommended levels you will get clear water.
 

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