Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 23

Thread: New Pool and stuck between a rock and a wife

  1. Back To Top    #1

    New Pool and stuck between a rock and a wife

    Yeah to being a new pool owner!! My wife and I have waited a while to get to this point.

    Pool specs:
    11,500 gallon mountain pond shaped vinyl liner
    Hayward 2spd pump
    Hayward sand filter (filled with zeobrite)
    Hayward PL-P4 Automation panel
    Hayward SWG (T-3 Cell)
    Polaris 280 with booster pump

    An initial item of contention is impatience for perfect water clarity. The pool was filled with city water last week (Wednesday 5/28). Water sat for 36 hours before PB completed startup. The water was crystal clear until the pump was turned on, but turned cloudy immediately. PB added 2 bags of salt and 2 gallons of 12.5 liquid shock. After a couple of days the water was looking a little better but still cloudy.

    Sunday I decided to backwash and like a new pool owner, had a dumb@ss moment and did not use the rinse setting on the multiport before turning back to filter setting. Pump blew nastiness into the pool and water was extremely cloudy.

    On Sunday I started the slam process and fast forward to today the water is better but no where near clear. Still cloudy and I can barely see the bottom in the shallow end.

    My test results:

    Pre fill tab water test:
    FC 1.0
    PH 7.5
    CH 50

    5/29 night
    FC 17
    CC 1
    PH 8.5 (can be disregarded based on high chlorine level)
    TA 30

    5/30 night
    FC 7.5
    CC 0
    PH 7.4
    Salt 4200 (per drop test...panel reads 3100ppm)

    Start of slam process
    6/1 night
    FC .5 - added 185 oz of 8.25% bleach
    CYA 0

    6/2 morning
    FC 11.5 - no bleach added

    6/2 night
    Back washed (correctly this time)
    FC 2 - added 185 oz of 8.25% bleach added
    Added 3lbs of Cyanuric acid

    6/3 morning
    FC - 18.5 - no bleach added

    6/3 afternoon
    FC 17 - no bleach added
    CYA 25

    6/3 night
    FC 17 - no bleach added

    6/4 morning
    FC 18 - no bleach added

    6/4 afternoon
    FC 14 - no bleach added

    6/4 night
    FC 14 - no bleach added
    CYA 25

    6/5 morning
    FC 18 (not sure why the rise unless the SWG bumped it up over night??) - no bleach added

    So...my lovely wife is getting impatient which is pressuring me to get this water clear. The PB performed a complimentary (say that sarcastically) water sample which came back with phosphates at 2500. I really don't care as the way I understand it is as long as I maintain an appropriate chlorine level it's a wash. On side note, the service dept lead mentions I should raise CH, I asked why since this is a vinyl not plaster pool and he couldn't answer .

    I'm adding some cellulose fiber tonight to help the sand filter, but what else should I be doing.

    I gave myself till Monday and then I'm letting my wife take the rains...I'm done hearing her complain with no suggestions other than "the pool store said"

    Please help'!!!!!!

  2. Back To Top    #2
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,879

    Re: New Pool and stuck between a rock and a wife

    Just ignore phosphates completely. My phosphate level is several thousand and I don't have any issues.

    Raise TA to at least around 70.

    How has your filter pressure been behaving? And how frequently do you backwash?
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  3. Back To Top    #3
    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Central Minnesota
    Posts
    5,079

    Re: New Pool and stuck between a rock and a wife

    If her suggestion and plan for taking the reigns is pool store says... that's a long expensive road filled with tears, empty purses and wallets.

    How are you doing your testing? Pool store, test kit? Looks like good test kit results, but wanted to be sure. Add those pool specs to your signature so it can be seen in every post. (Click Settings in the upper right, then Edit Signature on the left)

    SWG is not run during a SLAM since liquid chlorine is providing the FC and for the last step of a SLAM your SWG needs to be off anyway. Best to only add chlorine from one source to keep things simple.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

  4. Back To Top    #4
    freqz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    116

    Re: New Pool and stuck between a rock and a wife

    Quote Originally Posted by S4cruiser View Post

    I'm adding some cellulose fiber tonight to help the sand filter, but what else should I be doing.
    I think this is a good idea. It doesn't take much...
    25000 gal in ground plaster. '79 vintage. Cartridge filter.

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Re: New Pool and stuck between a rock and a wife

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion View Post
    Just ignore phosphates completely. My phosphate level is several thousand and I don't have any issues.

    Raise TA to at least around 70.

    How has your filter pressure been behaving? And how frequently do you backwash?
    Filter pressure has stayed fairly constant at ~20psi. I've back washed twice even though there hasn't been a measurable rise in pressure.

    Quote Originally Posted by JVTrain View Post
    If her suggestion and plan for taking the reigns is pool store says... that's a long expensive road filled with tears, empty purses and wallets.

    How are you doing your testing? Pool store, test kit? Looks like good test kit results, but wanted to be sure. Add those pool specs to your signature so it can be seen in every post. (Click Settings in the upper right, then Edit Signature on the left)

    SWG is not run during a SLAM since liquid chlorine is providing the FC and for the last step of a SLAM your SWG needs to be off anyway. Best to only add chlorine from one source to keep things simple.
    My thoughts exactly on pool store advice...but I can't seem to explain that to my better half without her even having a minor level of understanding.

    All testing is via TF100 kit..an invaluable resource!!

    So , you'd recommend turning off the SWG until the slam is complete?

    Quote Originally Posted by freqz View Post
    I think this is a good idea. It doesn't take much...
    I hope it helps...should be delivered later today from Amazon.

  6. Back To Top    #6
    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Central Minnesota
    Posts
    5,079

    Re: New Pool and stuck between a rock and a wife

    Quote Originally Posted by S4cruiser View Post

    So , you'd recommend turning off the SWG until the slam is complete?
    From the SLAM procedure:
    If you have a salt water chlorine generator, chlorine tablet dispenser, injection pump, or Liquidator, you will still need to use another chlorine source for SLAMing. All of these devices are designed to add chlorine slowly and steadily over many hours. To kill algae or lower CC, you need to put in lots of chlorine all at once. The SWG, tablet dispenser, injection pump, or Liquidator can be very helpful in the follow up stages to maintain FC at shock level, but for the initial couple of chlorine applications, you need to use another chlorine source.

    Doesn't seem like you're burning through much FC, in fact you SWG is keeping up with SLAM levels, especially overnight when sunlight isn't eating FC, so you could still continue to use it but would want to turn it off when attempting Step 3, the OCLT. Myself, I'm not overly familiar with SWG but I'd rather just be adding chlorine from one source at a time during a SLAM so it was easy to keep track of what the FC level is doing without "guessing" what the SWG is putting out (unless I knew my SWG very well). Seems like you're in the "maintenance phase" of the SLAM waiting on water clarity rather than burning organics/algae like crazy so you may want to just leave it on and bump up with bleach if necessary. Your call I guess...

    Cellulose should help speed up clarity improvement.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

  7. Back To Top    #7

    Re: New Pool and stuck between a rock and a wife

    Updated test results...

    This afternoon
    FCC 15
    TA 40
    Turned off SWG
    Added 2lbs baking soda
    Added 3 cups Zeofiber

    Tonight
    FC 15

    Water clarity seems unchanged...unfortunately. Also, I have experienced zero increase in filter pressure after adding the Zeofiber. Should I add more or wait until tomorrow and check filter pressure?

    I appreciate the help so far! This forum is an awesome resource!
    11,500 gallon mountain pond shaped vinyl line / Hayward 2spd pump / Hayward S244T sand filter (filled with zeobrite) / Hayward PL-P4 Automation panel / Hayward SWG (T-3 Cell) / Polaris 280 with booster / Hayward AquaConnect / Hayward CrystalLogic color changing LEDS

  8. Back To Top    #8
    Casey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    SW PA
    Posts
    10,157

    Re: New Pool and stuck between a rock and a wife

    I would continue to SLAM and instead of using zeo whatever, use Pool Grade DE. That's what is recommended in Pool School. You should add till you get a 1lb increase in filter pressure.

    I would suggest brushing your pool daily and by all means, DO NOT let the wife turn the pool over to a pool store! You will regret it! Just stay the course and keep at it!
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Re: New Pool and stuck between a rock and a wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Casey View Post
    I would continue to SLAM and instead of using zeo whatever, use Pool Grade DE. That's what is recommended in Pool School. You should add till you get a 1lb increase in filter pressure.

    I would suggest brushing your pool daily and by all means, DO NOT let the wife turn the pool over to a pool store! You will regret it! Just stay the course and keep at it!
    Thanks!

    Filter pressure did increase overnight...it was very high when I checked this AM. Back washed and pressure is normal again.

    Water clarity looks improved but no where near what I'm looking for.

    After back washing, should I add more cellulose fiber (I plan to use what I have instead of switching to DE...the verdict is debatable on which is better anyways).

    Test result coming soon..
    11,500 gallon mountain pond shaped vinyl line / Hayward 2spd pump / Hayward S244T sand filter (filled with zeobrite) / Hayward PL-P4 Automation panel / Hayward SWG (T-3 Cell) / Polaris 280 with booster / Hayward AquaConnect / Hayward CrystalLogic color changing LEDS

  10. Back To Top    #10
    Casey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    SW PA
    Posts
    10,157

    Re: New Pool and stuck between a rock and a wife

    Add it any time you back wash.
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    247

    Re: New Pool and stuck between a rock and a wife

    Quote Originally Posted by Casey View Post
    I would suggest brushing your pool daily and by all means, DO NOT let the wife turn the pool over to a pool store! You will regret it! Just stay the course and keep at it!
    Good Post!

    Hang in there. It will be worth it.
    Rick
    Installed June 2012 Aqua Leader 24ft Round AG Influence w/54 inch walls 13,500 gallons
    Cartridge Filter 100SF, 1.5HP
    Aqua Plus Smarte System - In for vacations, BBB all the way.
    Love my PVC Solar Cover Hangers

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Re: New Pool and stuck between a rock and a wife

    This morning's test results
    FC 15 (SWG was switched off last night so I guess I pass the OCLT)
    TA 50 (I added 2 lbs of baking soda last night)

    For raising my TA the pool math calc said to add 5 lbs. I only added 2lbs, not wanting to over shoot my goal of 70. Does this stuff register on the TA test pretty quick or will it continue to increase today without adding anymore??

    Thanks again for everyone's help! I will resist turning it over to my wife until she pries it form by dying hands!
    11,500 gallon mountain pond shaped vinyl line / Hayward 2spd pump / Hayward S244T sand filter (filled with zeobrite) / Hayward PL-P4 Automation panel / Hayward SWG (T-3 Cell) / Polaris 280 with booster / Hayward AquaConnect / Hayward CrystalLogic color changing LEDS

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Re: New Pool and stuck between a rock and a wife

    New results as of last night...
    FC 11
    CYA 25 (has stayed steady at this level for 4 days after adding 3lbs of CA)
    TA 50
    CH 75
    Ph 7.5
    Salt 4200ppm (tested via Taylor drop test)

    I've been adding 2 cup of ZeoFiber cellulose fiber to the skimmer and back washing twice daily since Thursday evening and brushing the pool at least twice a day.

    So, my water is still. It freaking clear and to say I'm getting impatient and frustrated is an understatement.

    Am I missing something here or should my water not be crystal clear by now??? The water is blue-ish but I can just barely see the too main drains in the deep end (6').

    Someone please share some magic tricks to get my water clear. It was crystal clear when filled before the PB performed the startup and turned on the pump.
    11,500 gallon mountain pond shaped vinyl line / Hayward 2spd pump / Hayward S244T sand filter (filled with zeobrite) / Hayward PL-P4 Automation panel / Hayward SWG (T-3 Cell) / Polaris 280 with booster / Hayward AquaConnect / Hayward CrystalLogic color changing LEDS

  14. Back To Top    #14
    Richard320's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    San Dimas, CA (LA County)
    Posts
    18,768

    Re: New Pool and stuck between a rock and a wife

    If you're loading up the filter so much that you need to backwash twice a day, there's a lot of stuff in the water that needs filtering out. That just takes time. See if you can't improve circulation in the deep end by pointing a return that way. You might also want to try just pulling from the main drain and brushing everything towards it.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

  15. Back To Top    #15
    bridgman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Bowmanville, ON Canada
    Posts
    461

    Re: New Pool and stuck between a rock and a wife

    >>The water was crystal clear until the pump was turned on, but turned cloudy immediately.

    Does this bother anyone ? I guess the answer is still "you have to filter it out" no matter what came out when the pump/filter was started, but I'm wondering what this "it came from the pump/filter" stuff might be ?
    Cedar hot tub, 680 US gallons - Snorkel wood-burning heater, canoe paddle, "offline" Intex 1000 GPH pump/filter with skimmer

  16. Back To Top    #16

    In the Industry

    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sebring, Florida
    Posts
    30,085

    Re: New Pool and stuck between a rock and a wife

    Someone please share some magic tricks to get my water clear
    Being intentionally snarky, You can get those products at the pool store. There is no magic in what we teach. It is simply gaining the understanding and knowledge so you can manage your own pool.

    I haven't read this whole thread but please stop using zeofiber. I think I know why you are using it but please stop.

    What prompts you to backwash? Are you doing it at random or are you waiting for the 25% increase in psi? What is your clean psi and your dirty psi? Are you rinsing after you backwash? For how long?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  17. Back To Top    #17

    Re: New Pool and stuck between a rock and a wife

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh View Post
    Being intentionally snarky, You can get those products at the pool store. There is no magic in what we teach. It is simply gaining the understanding and knowledge so you can manage your own pool.

    I haven't read this whole thread but please stop using zeofiber. I think I know why you are using it but please stop.

    What prompts you to backwash? Are you doing it at random or are you waiting for the 25% increase in psi? What is your clean psi and your dirty psi? Are you rinsing after you backwash? For how long?
    Yep, snarky was my tone as well!

    Clean pressure is 20psi and I'm back washing at 24-26psi. Back washing till clean water and then rinsing for 30 seconds or so.

    I was using zeo fiber to help the sand filter with fine particle filtering. Is there another cellulose fiber product you would recommend or switch to pol grade DE?

    Thanks,
    Jon
    11,500 gallon mountain pond shaped vinyl line / Hayward 2spd pump / Hayward S244T sand filter (filled with zeobrite) / Hayward PL-P4 Automation panel / Hayward SWG (T-3 Cell) / Polaris 280 with booster / Hayward AquaConnect / Hayward CrystalLogic color changing LEDS

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    106

    Re: New Pool and stuck between a rock and a wife

    I agree with duraleigh, no reason to use the cellulose or DE right now. You can get perfectly clear water using just the sand filter. DE and cellulose just help you get perfectly clear water later on.

    I had a lot of plaster dust from doing an acid wash this spring. The sand filter, along with a lot of help from my Dolphin cleaning robot, got it crystal clear - it just takes TIME - like more than 4 days.

    Stop using the cellulose or DE and see how long it takes for the filter pressure to rise 25% after doing a backwash. If you are still having to backwash every day or so, it's because it is catching stuff out of the water. It just takes time for all of it to get caught by the filter.
    22,000 gallon in-ground kidney-ish shape: 1 HP pump and Triton TR60 sand filter. NEW: Dolphin Nautilus robot! :)

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Re: New Pool and stuck between a rock and a wife

    Quote Originally Posted by chjade84 View Post
    I agree with duraleigh, no reason to use the cellulose or DE right now.

    Stop using the cellulose or DE and see how long it takes for the filter pressure to rise 25% after doing a backwash. If you are still having to backwash every day or so, it's because it is catching stuff out of the water. It just takes time for all of it to get caught by the filter.
    Will do!
    11,500 gallon mountain pond shaped vinyl line / Hayward 2spd pump / Hayward S244T sand filter (filled with zeobrite) / Hayward PL-P4 Automation panel / Hayward SWG (T-3 Cell) / Polaris 280 with booster / Hayward AquaConnect / Hayward CrystalLogic color changing LEDS

  20. Back To Top    #20

    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Turlock, CA
    Posts
    55

    Re: New Pool and stuck between a rock and a wife

    Sand filters work great if you give the sand a chance to pack down and do its job. It doesn't happen overnight though, it could take a week or two. But every time you backwash you upset the system somewhat and the filter will be less effecient at filtering out the fine stuff.

    Try not addding any DE or zeofiber and let it run until the pressure rises to 25 psi based on filter load only. With brand new water, this could mean weeks or even months until you actually need to backwash.

    I have a Hayward filter too with plain old sand. If you run the pump long enough every day, leave the filter alone, and keep your chlorine up at recommended levels you will get clear water.
    21K gallon, plaster, 1hp Hayward MaxFlo pump, Hayward 244s sand filter, 3/4 hp Halcyon PB4-60Q booster pump, Polaris 280 cleaner.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •