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Thread: Which is the Best Variable Speed Pump for 1 1/2" Pipe: Intellifo 3050, Jandy, Eco Sta

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    Which is the Best Variable Speed Pump for 1 1/2" Pipe: Intellifo 3050, Jandy, Eco Sta

    I have been looking at getting a variable speed pump - my summer electric bills are usually up to $340 month and that's running the 1hp pump 5-6 hrs at most, but my problem is the 1 1/2" piping or the decisions would be simple, looking for some expand-ability to a possible water fall up a 15' high hill (Dreams' O the Dreams')(though likely better on a separate system) the pool is 24000 gal and I run a Kreepy pretty much hooked up all the time except for when friends come over I pull it out,
    all pumps im looking at are right around $820
    looking at the Intelliflo VS 3050 3hp, Jandy Flopro 2hp, Hayword Ecostar or Tri star (also trying to get away from my pool timer everything is a vampire for energy and resistance) I'm sure a timer is not much but its death by a thousand cuts, removing as many as possible adds up to real money very quickly
    living in California rates are up to .31 kw based on a tiered scale a VS is the way to go and could put me into a lower tier - plus a 200 rebate makes it even more enticing.

    So the concern is reliability and economy each of the pumps seem to be very effective but my research has shown some issues with the Hayword and in some case's the Pentair, I have gone as far as contacting the service departments of Pentair (verbally stated do not install on 1 1/2 piping) Hayword (stated 1 1/2" is ok as long as its necked down from 2" a minimum of 10 inches from the suction inlet and I run at a lower speed) Jandy tech didnt know much about my application seems to be some conflict with some of the postings on this site using the existing 1 1/2" piping (note physically limits the GPM to 45 max.)
    and of course as most with in floor cleaners know the kreep will occasionally come out of the water and cause the system to loose prime - don't want to burn the pump out due to a lack of prime. which happens from time to time - my 25 year old 1hp metal housing pump takes a beating without loosing a seal or impeller - hate to lose that kind of reliability

    the Jandy seems to have some drawbacks, Pentair is very nice but my conversation with the tech has me concerned about taking the chance - the Hayword is simpler to operate but unfortunately seems to be less reliable - so here I am - hopefully responses on this form will have a good bit of advice and experience using an Variable Speed Pump on 1 1/2 pipe applications



    will do the install my self - this is a simple install - electric is all there and PVC pipe interface is simple as sweating a few adapter fittings to the copper -- cut out the old backwash valve install a Jandy NoLube 3 way valve (an SVRS will be installed if necessary - will likely cause shut downs with the kreepy)


    24000 Gal In Ground Pool 16x32', 8' Deep, 60 Gal DE filter, Kreepy Cleaner on skimmer, main bottome drain always shut off

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    susa's Avatar
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    Re: Which is the Best Variable Speed Pump for 1 1/2" Pipe: Intellifo 3050, Jandy, Eco

    we run several family pools built 40 years ago with 1.5 inch piping using IntelliFlo VF pumps. No problems. Our main reason for VF was to run quiet and most of our pools are running during the summer 24/7 and cost just pennies a day (power use is circa 100-113 watts)

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    Re: Which is the Best Variable Speed Pump for 1 1/2" Pipe: Intellifo 3050, Jandy, Eco

    Many people on the forum use the IntelliFlo on 1.5" plumbing without any problems. The main thing is to have a reasonable length of straight 2" pipe right in front of the pump and to remember to turn down the maximum speed the pump can run at (a setting on the pump control panel).
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Which is the Best Variable Speed Pump for 1 1/2" Pipe: Intellifo 3050, Jandy, Eco

    Check your private messages.

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    Re: Which is the Best Variable Speed Pump for 1 1/2" Pipe: Intellifo 3050, Jandy, Eco

    I'm am guessing the VF means variable frequency drive so the only thing that really scared me away from Pentair is talking to the warranty repair tech at Pentair he was admit not to install in a system with 1 1/2" lines even with a large 2" buffer line to the suction side - which conflicts with what I have read here its hard to imagine he would say that without alot of pump failures showing up on his shelves

    also concerned about the occasional run dry conditions when at 3am the Kreepy sucks in a wad of air and deprimes the system for a couple of hours

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    Re: Which is the Best Variable Speed Pump for 1 1/2" Pipe: Intellifo 3050, Jandy, Eco

    VF stands for variable flow. The IntelliFlo VF has a flow sensor and can be programed to automatically change speed as needed to maintain a specific flow rate. I don't recommend the VF version of the IntelliFlo. The regular model is more than sufficient and the VF feature can sometimes be temperamental.

    Some systems have prime protection, where the pump turns off when it loses prime. This is most commonly available when using a SWG and automation system of the same brand, though you also see prime protection now and then in other contexts. The IntelliFlo VF includes prime protection directly in the pump.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Which is the Best Variable Speed Pump for 1 1/2" Pipe: Intellifo 3050, Jandy, Eco

    The prime protection does sound like a feature I need to have on the pump I purchase
    are you aware of any other models / brands that have prime protection --?? swg means ???
    still a newbee though I have taken care of my pool for over 20 years now

    just had a tile / replaster last year after I'm guessing 25 years on the same plaster 3 paint coats (amazing) used glow in the dark tiles for trim with the normal tiles very nice look to them at night Reyes Pool Plastering did a great job at a great price 4300 was the quote with some extras and light gray plaster 4700
    and I had to pop up and fix the coping which they helped with -- stained it brown using 5S acid excellent look very easy to apply

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    Re: Which is the Best Variable Speed Pump for 1 1/2" Pipe: Intellifo 3050, Jandy, Eco

    SWG stands for Salt Water chlorine Generator. They always have a flow sensor, and when connected to an automation system the automation system will turn off the pump if the SWG says there isn't any water flow. A few SWGs include that feature directly when they have an internal timer and are setup to control the pump, though that combination is a little rare.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Which is the Best Variable Speed Pump for 1 1/2" Pipe: Intellifo 3050, Jandy, Eco

    thank you for the information still need to identify which pumps have prime protection - I sent an email to hayword will likely send one to zodiac(jandy) next

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    Re: Which is the Best Variable Speed Pump for 1 1/2" Pipe: Intellifo 3050, Jandy, Eco

    The IntelliFlo VF is the only pump I know of that includes prime protection as part of the pump. The IntelliFlo VF is the only pump with an integral flow sensor,
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Which is the Best Variable Speed Pump for 1 1/2" Pipe: Intellifo 3050, Jandy, Eco

    A pool timer uses very little energy and since you already have one, have you considered the MaxFlo VS or SuperFlo VS? They have a much better price point and are a bit more efficient than the Intelliflo.

    Also, a 1 URHP SuperPump, assuming that is an equivalent of what you have now, would use about 1200 watts which would be about $67/month so your current electricity bill is probably dominated by something else like AC.

    That isn't to say that it is not a good idea to go with a VS pump only that it may not result in a major energy reduction but it will still help.
    Mark
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    Re: Which is the Best Variable Speed Pump for 1 1/2" Pipe: Intellifo 3050, Jandy, Eco

    Nothing is certain on the cost savings though the calculators on zodiac, pentair, hayword indicate my current use expense is around $1100 annual and the cost will be dropped by 7-850 - the timer and its included resistance is a very small effect the purpose was to simplify and save at the same time - winter I get hit with gas and electric, summer its
    AC but the sliding KW scale tier system makes for an exponential cost increase or savings if I can drop back down to a lower tier or at least a percentage into the lower tier

    now that the prospective of needing Prime Protection has come into play my focus will be to obtain some level of protection -- new pumps will no doubt fail without prime while my old work horse still lives on almost makes mating up a variable speed motor assembly to the pump housing seem like a good alternative

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    Re: Which is the Best Variable Speed Pump for 1 1/2" Pipe: Intellifo 3050, Jandy, Eco

    I have a much more accurate cost savings model in my signature if you are interested. It uses actual measured data from the APSP.

    As for priming, a properly installed and operating pump should only need priming after you open the pump basket. My pump has never run dry and I have a suction side cleaner too. You just need to adjust it so it doesn't come out of the water.
    Mark
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    Re: Which is the Best Variable Speed Pump for 1 1/2" Pipe: Intellifo 3050, Jandy, Eco

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    I have a much more accurate cost savings model in my signature if you are interested. It uses actual measured data from the APSP.

    As for priming, a properly installed and operating pump should only need priming after you open the pump basket. My pump has never run dry and I have a suction side cleaner too. You just need to adjust it so it doesn't come out of the water.
    I agree the cleaner should not come out of the water but seems to happen when it gets caught on the steps and makes the surface fortunately it only happens around one or two times a year if that
    - when Its set up to not make it up the steps the walls don't seem to get properly cleaned
    just another simple little thing that can go wrong and may damage the pump
    >
    though I'm not sure of the longevity of the pumps if they are robust enough and can handle an off occasion air intake but its a real concern if I'm away from home for a few days it could prove to be a PIA costly issue.
    I use a hayword inline leaf basket with weights to keep it below water at all times not that it leaks just seems to keep the excess bubbles from kreepy line leaks and such from gathering and eventually losing prime (the lines are good but they can cause small amounts of air to make it into the hayword.
    have to try out your cost savings model -- for me its a little tricky because I'm on a tiered fee system the more I use the more it costs above base line

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    Re: Which is the Best Variable Speed Pump for 1 1/2" Pipe: Intellifo 3050, Jandy, Eco

    Contacted Jandy and Pentair they report that there variable speed pool pumps will shut down when prime is lost
    now the question is Jandy FloPro 2 hp or Pentair VS 03050 011018 still concerned about the 1 1/2" piping
    a rep contacted me from Pentair and stated the pump will work with 1 1/2" pipe but must be turned down - conflict in my mind is the statement the repair tech made that the pump absolutely needs to be connected to a 2" and up supply system
    anyone out there who has been using an Intelliflo for a few years connected to 1 1/2" pipe ? note fyi max gpm is 45 for 1 1/2" pipe

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    Re: Which is the Best Variable Speed Pump for 1 1/2" Pipe: Intellifo 3050, Jandy, Eco

    There is no such thing as a maximum flow through a pipe like you are quoting. A larger pump welp move move water than that without issue.
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    Re: Which is the Best Variable Speed Pump for 1 1/2" Pipe: Intellifo 3050, Jandy, Eco

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    There is no such thing as a maximum flow through a pipe like you are quoting. A larger pump welp move move water than that without issue.
    Theoretically you are correct when looking at a High pressure system - But pools are not designed to be high pressure - based on research of numerous pump manufacturers and support sites you will find that for effective use for pool equipment where the filtration system is not overly stressed and the piping can be relied upon for long service life the system should be designed around the following GPM based on pipe size constraints - systems and experience may very - this is what I pulled off one of the many web sites

    please feel free to contact Pentair, Hayword and Jandy/zodiac to confirm the parameters as I have

    Pool Pipe Sizing
    Pool pipe sizing is a major consideration when determining the proper pump size for your pool. The larger the diameter of the pipe, the more water can flow through it.
    As a general rule, the velocity of the water through the pipe should not exceed 6-7 feet per second. Consult pipe sizing tables or the following chart for details.
    1.5 Inch Pipe
    44 GPM
    2.0 Inch Pipe
    78 GPM
    2.5 Inch Pipe
    120 GPM
    3.0 Inch Pipe
    160 GPM

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    Re: Which is the Best Variable Speed Pump for 1 1/2" Pipe: Intellifo 3050, Jandy, Eco

    Those numbers are rules of thumb, guidelines for flow rates that it is best not to exceed for efficiency. But they are not maximums, and in appropriate situations it is totally fine to exceed them. Your reasoning above about "High pressure system", "not overly stressed", and "long service life" has nothing at all to do with it. Pool plumbing is considered a high pressure system compared to DWV plumbing which should never be pressurized. Filters have design flow rates that should not be exceeded, but that has no relationship with pipe size. And, PVC pipes will last just as long at flow rates exceeding those limits as they will at lower flow rates.

    Those numbers actually come from the metal pipe world. In metal pipes the metal can erode away if the flow rate exceeds those numbers. PVC does not have those issues, and so those numbers don't apply at all in the way they were originally intended.

    For maximum efficiency, you want to be way way below those flow rates. So this really shouldn't come up.

    As I have already stated, there are many people on the forum using the IntelliFlo with 1 1/2" plumbing. There were two cases that I can remember where IntelliFlo VF users had to downgrade to InteliiFlo VS pumps to avoid spurious priming errors in systems that happened to have 1 1/2" plumbing, but otherwise there have not been any problems reported here.

    The IntelliFlo VS does not include prime protection. I'm less sure about the FloPro, but I have checked, and Jandy does not claim that it includes prime protection anywhere I can find.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Which is the Best Variable Speed Pump for 1 1/2" Pipe: Intellifo 3050, Jandy, Eco

    Pressure is generally not an issue at all in a residential pool. Pool pumps are incapable of generating pressure much about about 45 PSI because maximum head of the largest pool pump is limited to about 100'. Plus every piece of equipment is rated to well above 45 PSI so that doesn't really "stress" any piece of equipment and it really doesn't have any bearing on the life of the equipment.

    As a general rule, the velocity of the water through the pipe should not exceed 6-7 feet per second.
    While a good goal, nearly every pool built in the past exceeds that number and without any major consequences. However, current APSP-15 suggested limits for residential pools adopted by many state regulators are 6 ft/sec on suction lines (for VGB compliance) and 8 ft/sec on return lines so there really is no need to go lower than that.
    Mark
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