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Thread: Adding Muriatic Acid near a ladder, and storage

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    steveg_nh's Avatar
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    Adding Muriatic Acid near a ladder, and storage

    I got a nice wiff of MA fumes tonight, adding some to knock down the PH. I'm fine, but wow, that stuff is strong. Next time, mask. I had gloves and glasses on already. Anyway, I read up on the concerns of the fumes (I'll live another day I guess) here on TFP, but read one more thing that made me wonder if I'm ok doing what I'm doing.

    It says that MA is corrosive to metals, especially stainless steel. I add the MA in front of the return jet in the deep end, which is about 24" to the left of the deep end ladder. Do I have to be concerned about the heavier concentration in the vicinity of the ladder damaging it over time? I assume once the MA hits the pool, in the water stream from the jet, it's neutralized pretty quick. I'm thinking the comments on being corrosive where if it was undiluted and directly applied to metal. Thoughts?

    Lastly, I read a lot about storage. Some folks store it outside in plastic bins. Isn't that worse than say indoors, as the temps can get quite high outside? I have it on a shelf in the basement, but reading about "vented" caps made me wonder if this is a bonehead idea. The threads I read were a few years old, so I'm wondering what the latest ideas may be.

    Thanks!
    24'x40' 25k gal Imperial Mountain Pond IGP, full 28 mil VynAll Ocean Breakers liner. All Hayward system: 140k BTU HeatPro heat pump, 3/4HP single speed TriStar 2" Pump, DE6020 filter, AquaPlus Automation/Salt Chlorination, remote controls, ColorLogic 4.0 lighting. Polaris 280 w/PB4-60 BP. TF100 & K1766 test kits. Rinox Palazzo pavers and Spherik coping. Pool installed 9/2013, project completed 6/16/14.

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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid near a ladder, and storage

    I don't have first hand experience with muriatic acid per se, but we use pure HCL at work, and it will straight burn you up. A little whiff, and you will cough for a couple days. I assume the diluted version would have a similar effect. Get a respirator with organic vapor cartridges and you will be good to go. As far as being corrosive to metal, I've seen it dissolve metal fittings off the end of hoses. I would think that as long as you added it slowly on the side of the return away from the ladder it would be fine.

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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid near a ladder, and storage

    Slow down, folks!

    20 baume (31%) muriatic acid is not the MONSTER you are making it sound like. There are thousands of us who use it annually without incident. Use some general common sense and don't get caught up in "the sky is falling" crowd.

    This forum advocates the use of muriatic acid for pH control and it works. Please don't compare it with Hydrochloric acid and please don't anyone think that the forum is advocating the use of ANYTHING that is too dangerous for you to use.
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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid near a ladder, and storage

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh View Post
    Slow down, folks!

    20 baume (31%) muriatic acid is not the MONSTER you are making it sound like. There are thousands of us who use it annually without incident. Use some general common sense and don't get caught up in "the sky is falling" crowd.

    This forum advocates the use of muriatic acid for pH control and it works. Please don't compare it with Hydrochloric acid and please don't anyone think that the forum is advocating the use of ANYTHING that is too dangerous for you to use.
    Isn't muriatic acid the same as hydrocloric, just at a much lower strength and concentration?
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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid near a ladder, and storage

    Thanks Dave. It really doesn't scare me at all, just need to be careful with it. It was actually a thread here on TFP where I read the comment about it being very corrosive to SS, which is why I asked about where I'm adding it to the pool relative to the ladder. I figure once it hits water, it starts to dilute even more so, right away of course.

    I'm fine (from the fumes), but will just be more careful next time. I was just curious if I had to worry at all about the ladder's location to the return jet I use for adding MA, and also when I add bleach. I've only had the pool 8 months (it's only been open 2 of those!) so if I want to adjust my process, now is the time. I figure using shallow end returns is a good idea, as anything added can hit bottom much sooner, in a higher concentration, than the deep end.
    24'x40' 25k gal Imperial Mountain Pond IGP, full 28 mil VynAll Ocean Breakers liner. All Hayward system: 140k BTU HeatPro heat pump, 3/4HP single speed TriStar 2" Pump, DE6020 filter, AquaPlus Automation/Salt Chlorination, remote controls, ColorLogic 4.0 lighting. Polaris 280 w/PB4-60 BP. TF100 & K1766 test kits. Rinox Palazzo pavers and Spherik coping. Pool installed 9/2013, project completed 6/16/14.

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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid near a ladder, and storage

    If you dribble acid in front of the return, it will get caught up in the stream and dilute and disperse quickly. Watch the yellow cloud dissipate when you add bleach in front of the return. The same thing will happen with the acid. And if you're worried, don't ad near the ladder and make a couple passes in the area with the brush immediately after and it will be dilued ina flash.
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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid near a ladder, and storage

    Don't stand directly above the location where the MA and the H20 meet and you'll decrease the amount of fumes you inhale by 90% (this is an estimate)

    Personally I suggest at least a pair of glasses (safety, or sunglasses if they have good coverage) when dealing with MA....


    Why do you want to add the bleach to the shallow end? I don't quite understand this part of your comment.
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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid near a ladder, and storage

    I've got 3 returns in my pool. When I add MA, I add it in front of the return that happens to have the wind at my back when adding. Keeps the chance of fumes in my nose at a minumum. MA works great, just has to be handled with respect.
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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid near a ladder, and storage

    Quote Originally Posted by steveg_nh View Post
    Lastly, I read a lot about storage. Some folks store it outside in plastic bins. Isn't that worse than say indoors, as the temps can get quite high outside? I have it on a shelf in the basement, but reading about "vented" caps made me wonder if this is a bonehead idea. The threads I read were a few years old, so I'm wondering what the latest ideas may be.

    Thanks!
    Many folks that were storing MA in their garages have since stopped - corrosive issues. Lots/many of us store it outside. Placing the MA jug inside a plastic bin will prevent a leak from coming in contact with another chemical. I suggest an area not in direct sunlight.

    Do not store chlorine sources and MA where they could come in contact.
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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid near a ladder, and storage

    I don't add bleach in the shallow end. I was just saying, I only have one deep end return, and it's near the ladder. If I wanted to use a return not near anything metal, it would be in the shallower ends of the pool, which don't seem like a good idea.

    On storing the MA outside in plastic bin, do you seal it with a lid? I would think you wouldn't want to. But then again, if you don't, you wouldn't want animals getting at it and stuff.
    24'x40' 25k gal Imperial Mountain Pond IGP, full 28 mil VynAll Ocean Breakers liner. All Hayward system: 140k BTU HeatPro heat pump, 3/4HP single speed TriStar 2" Pump, DE6020 filter, AquaPlus Automation/Salt Chlorination, remote controls, ColorLogic 4.0 lighting. Polaris 280 w/PB4-60 BP. TF100 & K1766 test kits. Rinox Palazzo pavers and Spherik coping. Pool installed 9/2013, project completed 6/16/14.

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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid near a ladder, and storage

    If you add the Muriatic (MA) as slowly as recommended here the MA should start spreading out and diluting almost immediately. I have to add MA about every 2 weeks. Not sure why I have opposite problem as my neighbor who is always having to raise his pH level. When I add the MA I place my container almost all the way into the water and add it into the return stream at a little more than a trickle the stream of acid is about the width of a pencil. When done, I rinse the container out with more pool water.

    The biggest thing to keep in mind is that with pools we are always dealing with Acids, Caustics, and Oxidizers. Proper safety equipment should be worn when using any of these. Nitrile type chemical gloves offer protection for your hands sufficiently for our use. A face shield and safety glasses should be worn combined; when the risk of splashing is great, you could get away with 1 or the other but that is up to you (always read the manufactures recommendations for safety apparel) An Acid Gas type cartridge respirator is the preferred one to use depending on manufacturer (I use an AG cartridge from 3M). The important thing to remember if you are using a respirator is to use the correct cartridge, the wrong one could cause more harm than good. Lastly use good hygiene practices after handling chemicals, wash your hands thoroughly with water and soap, wipe down the handles on the sink, and don't touch you face or other body parts until after you wash up; chemical burns hurt and are rather unpleasant.

    I may be a little extreme on safety practices, but that's my choice.
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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid near a ladder, and storage

    On storing the MA outside in plastic bin, do you seal it with a lid? I would think you wouldn't want to. But then again, if you don't, you wouldn't want animals getting at it and stuff.
    I use an open bin a/k/a 5 gal bucket. Never had animals mess w/it........ that I know of
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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid near a ladder, and storage

    Easy enough for solution...just to find a nice spot to put it that out of the way...
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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid near a ladder, and storage

    I'm probably overthinking this now - but what about fumes pooling in the bucket? Or are they lighter than air and all float off? I'm thinking of propane, which is heavier than air, and curious about the properties of MA fumes. Also, if it does just rise, where do you keep your bucket outside? If you kept it near the house, would it eventually ruin siding? Gutters? etc...
    24'x40' 25k gal Imperial Mountain Pond IGP, full 28 mil VynAll Ocean Breakers liner. All Hayward system: 140k BTU HeatPro heat pump, 3/4HP single speed TriStar 2" Pump, DE6020 filter, AquaPlus Automation/Salt Chlorination, remote controls, ColorLogic 4.0 lighting. Polaris 280 w/PB4-60 BP. TF100 & K1766 test kits. Rinox Palazzo pavers and Spherik coping. Pool installed 9/2013, project completed 6/16/14.

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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid near a ladder, and storage

    I dilute the MA in a 5 gallon bucket prior to dropping it in the deep end of the pool. Lately I have had a tough string of high PH as well.
    18' x 36' vinyl steel wall pool with deep end, 2 lights and 6' steps, main drain, SWG, Cartridge Filter, 320,000 BTU Rheem heater, 3/4HP 1 stage pump - Ontario, Canada

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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid near a ladder, and storage

    Quote Originally Posted by steveg_nh View Post
    I'm probably overthinking this now
    +1
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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid near a ladder, and storage

    Oh come on! LOL. If I'm going to leave it stored outside in a bucket, I just want it safe...so that's why I'm curious if any fumes would just collect in the bottom of the bucket.
    24'x40' 25k gal Imperial Mountain Pond IGP, full 28 mil VynAll Ocean Breakers liner. All Hayward system: 140k BTU HeatPro heat pump, 3/4HP single speed TriStar 2" Pump, DE6020 filter, AquaPlus Automation/Salt Chlorination, remote controls, ColorLogic 4.0 lighting. Polaris 280 w/PB4-60 BP. TF100 & K1766 test kits. Rinox Palazzo pavers and Spherik coping. Pool installed 9/2013, project completed 6/16/14.

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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid near a ladder, and storage

    The only dumb question is the one not asked!

    I have no idea but would like to know as well. I know to not store it next to bleach. I also make sure to store it in a well ventilated area. I also make sure no critters can get to it to be of the safe side.

    Where and how IS the best way to safely store MA??

    Kim
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    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid near a ladder, and storage

    Having snarky fits again today. Sorry!

    It's best to store in a ventilated area, preferably not in any metal enclosure or shelf. Vapors over time might even build up and corrode hinges, pulls on wooden cabinets. That is if you're not opening, closing for long periods like over the winter. If you're using the container often, less likely to build up corrosive vapors. In the winter or over long term, inside a shallow plastic tray or tub so that there is decent air flow across the lid. Lids are vented to prevent build up of vapors inside the bottle but that doesn't help metal objects in the surrounding area. A cool area is best but the coolest area in most houses is the basement. That's great, but many basements have furnaces, water heaters, plumbing... lots of important metal stuff. So in a well ventilated basement but away from HVAC and water appliances. Garages are pretty ideal if they stay cool but again, lots of metal objects such as tools, cars, bikes, etc.

    EDIT: Acid vapors are basically like water vapor. No great difference from air itself, like humidity in the air so they will not sink or rise any more than surrounding air.

    Mine goes in an outdoor plastic cabinet in screened porch during the summer and in the winter in my basement, away from furnace equipment.
    Last edited by JVTrain; 06-05-2014 at 06:16 PM. Reason: Vapor density
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    Re: Adding Muriatic Acid near a ladder, and storage

    Thanks for the awesome answer. I will be moving mine as they are on a shelf right under the METAL brackets holding the shelf above it! LOL Not a good thing! But hey I got one thing right--------they are not anywhere near the bleach!

    Kim
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