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Thread: Why is BBB not taught by builders?

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    Reddogdan's Avatar
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    Why is BBB not taught by builders?

    I can understand why a chemical store wouldn't want you to know about TFP. Kinda like a crack dealer handing out flyers for the local rehab.
    But I would think a builder would want a happy customer and good PR for future business.
    14.3k, 3 1/2-5 1/2, IG, Pebble Wet Edge Northshore Tahoe, Jandy 4 cartridge, Jandy 2hp variable, Pentair 320 inline chlorinator fed by a Stenner, Polaris 280, K-2006 test kit, Built 9/13
    Fill water: TA=90, PH=70, CH=90

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Why is BBB not taught by builders?

    Good question. The builders I know still think adjusting TA and PH is impossible and have no clue how to do it. The builders I know do openings and closings on the side, and they ALL use Dichlor when opening and closing pools, without testing the water at all.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
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    Smykowski's Avatar
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    Re: Why is BBB not taught by builders?

    I have no experience with builders but from the stories I see here, it seems as though the builders are contractors (and really good at construction), but they have no idea how the chemistry works.
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
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    Re: Why is BBB not taught by builders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smykowski View Post
    I have no experience with builders but from the stories I see here, it seems as though the builders are contractors (and really good at construction), but they have no idea how the chemistry works.
    This. They take care of everything regarding construction, plumbing, electrical, etc... but chemistry? You're pretty much on your own. Thank God I found TFPF early in my ownership!
    IG gunite pool size: 12,500 gallons - includes spa with spillover, Polaris vacuum cleaner, Ultrapure Ozonator, inline tab chlorinator that I no longer use
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    Re: Why is BBB not taught by builders?

    My builder was affiliated with a local pool store and recommended using bioguard products, which is what the pool store sold. Pretty obvious why they didn't tell me about BBB.
    24,000 gal vinyl Lazy L, 1 hp pump, DE Filter, Pentair 250K heater, Letro Legend pressure side pool sweep

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    Mod Squad zea3's Avatar
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    Re: Why is BBB not taught by builders?

    The answer is they don't teach it because they don't know about it.
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    Mod Squad woodyp's Avatar
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    Re: Why is BBB not taught by builders?

    They don't understand the CYA/Chlorine relationship for the most part.
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    Re: Why is BBB not taught by builders?

    The builder who recently redid my filter/pump/liner etc did recommend the TFPC method in a general sense.
    The only difference was that he thought I had lost my mind suggesting that the chlorine from the pool store was the same as bleach adjusting for product percentage

    He suggested pretty much the same methods employed by folks here, but, insisted that using "pool chlorine" was essential.
    20K gal, IG vinyl, 1 1/2 HP Hayward Super Pump , 100lb sand, installed 2000 - new liner/filter/pump March 2014
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    Re: Why is BBB not taught by builders?

    Another thing is it seems many pool builders know nothing about maintaining a pool, by that I mean more than just the chemistry, just look at how they often layout equipment pads so it all has to be chopped out to change anything. Or suggest pool layouts with no thought to traffic flow, etc.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Re: Why is BBB not taught by builders?

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyp View Post
    They don't understand the CYA/Chlorine relationship for the most part.
    I really think many pool store owners/employees miss this also. I would really hate to think there are that many people out there who will willingly give bad information/misinformation just to put money in their pocket. They probably just take chemical company representatives information as gospel and don't do their own due diligence.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Why is BBB not taught by builders?

    Quote Originally Posted by tim5055 View Post
    They probably just take chemical company representatives information as gospel and don't do their own due diligence.
    This. And many pool store employees (especially in summer) are just kids that do not maintain their own pools and just spew the information that they have been told by previous employees .... remember the telephone game as a kid
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    Re: Why is BBB not taught by builders?

    The PB we used has his own pool store as well. He was pushing me to bring the water there to be tested and told me that they would get me whatever I need to keep the pool clear. Luckily I'm a DIY, OCD type person and found this site so I'm able to do it all myself. I'm not opposed to buying certain things at the pool store but I'll run my own chemistry.
    26,700 Gal., 18x36 IG pool with Vinyl. 1HP Hayward Super Pump; Hayward DE3620 Filter; Hayward SAS; TFT-100 test kit; Dolphin Atlantis Cleaner.

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    Re: Why is BBB not taught by builders?

    My PB also has a pool store (as well as a fireworks store!).
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Our pool build--> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard Skippy's Cheap Pool Cooler -->Skippy's New Fountain

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    Re: Why is BBB not taught by builders?

    But does he have fireworks you can use in the pool?

    19,000 vinyl pool, solar heat, .75 hp tristar, 48 sq ft de filter

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: Why is BBB not taught by builders?

    Quote Originally Posted by YippeeSkippy View Post
    My PB also has a pool store (as well as a fireworks store!).
    I guess his store is north of the river.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Why is BBB not taught by builders?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    But does he have fireworks you can use in the pool?

    Most fireworks work just fine underwater..........makes a bit of a mess though!
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    Re: Why is BBB not taught by builders?

    I know bottle rockets work great under water! Use to stand on the bank of the cow pond when I was a kid and fire em off! Pretty cool watching them explode
    Quote Originally Posted by Melt In The Sun View Post
    Most fireworks work just fine underwater..........makes a bit of a mess though!
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    Re: Why is BBB not taught by builders?

    The Chlorine vs CYA relationship, although long known, is not widely recognized by the NSPF or the APSP or other pool orgainizations. This I belive is due to lobbying by the chemical makers. It will take the national swimming pool and spa organizations to change the game, so the chemical folks lobby hard against it.

    If the NSPF or the APSP did recognize and recommend maintaining your pool the way we do, the chemical makers would loose TONS of sales.

    I know i harp on Pool Stores pretty hard, but I really do belive that all those folks know about pool care, for the most part, is from the product sales literature. I dont think the folks on the pool store do it on purpose. They just dont know any better.

    Although, there are some that do, I have no doubt.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
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    Re: Why is BBB not taught by builders?

    Here is my experience with Pool Builders and Pool Store owners:
    Most pool store owners sub-contract pool builders and give them their "leads". The Pool Builders buy the pool kits from the pool stores so there is much profit and business if they work together. A pool builder is very "reluctant" to do anything to detract their relationship from the pool store. Hence, they will never divulge any of their business practices or bad mouth, "The Store".
    The Pool Store buys all the chemicals from the manufacturer. The manufacturer "schools" them that with rain water, evaporation and pool water loss,that the "added in" water is sufficient to keep the stabilizer at accepted levels. This comes directly from a pool store owner that I have known for years and truly believes he is an "expert" in the industry. They keep selling the products and keep misinforming the pool owners who usually don't have a clue. I beat my head against a wall for almost two years until I found out what CYA is and how it affects pool water. Thank God for TFP, its creators and this website! Knowledge is power and with just a little ambition and perseverance, anyone with a desire to keep their pool looking good with minimum cost can do this. Thanks Again creators of BBB and TFP.
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    Re: Why is BBB not taught by builders?

    My PB was pool stored. He freaked when I started pouring bleach into the return after it filled up stating: "You cant do that, the pool store will tell you not to use bleach as it will make the liner brittle. I showed him how in the Doughboy Pool Instructions, it gives instructions for chlorinating with liquid chlorine AKA bleach. Surprisingly... just like the advice on this here forum.... it says to pour it slowly into the return while the pump is running.

    "imagine that" I replied.
    Partially buried Doughboy Desert Spring 16 x 32, sport pool, with 7 ft deep middle, 20,000 gallons, Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1.5 HP 2 speed pump, 250 lb sandfilter, 2 Doughboy skimmers and 2 returns. 2 cascade fountains.
    Taylor K-2006 kit. Zodiac Barracuda Ranger suction side cleaner.
    TFPC method and is crystal clear every day thanks to TFP!!!

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