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Thread: HELP!!

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Jun 2014
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    Phoenix, AZ
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    HELP!!

    Hey guys,

    I've google searched and enough threads came up here and I've used that info a lot! This is going to be long... I'll give info about my pool and me since day 1.

    I bought this house with a pool here in Phoenix about 5 years ago. I used to be "that" guy that went to the pool store and bought what they said. If it was green I added more shock and tabs (I now know them as tri and di chlor) and couldn't understand why I kept adding chlorine but it was still green. It smelled plenty strong like chlorine!!

    I gradually started testing myself and learned a little along the way, but still struggled.

    NOW, over the last 2 years I ask "why?" for everything. I want to know the root cause and not the solution. "Add x amount of shock and use this $80 quart of Matrix clarifier" I have been on an information journey, which has included the pool. I am smart and am a do it your selfer. I rebuilt a Honda engine with a blown head gasket at 203,000 miles on it and it currently has 8,000 trouble free miles on it. I do everything around my house myself. So I am not some goof ball that is trying his hand at something...but this hole in the ground filled with water is frustrating the heck out of me!!

    I did a complete drain and fill 2 months ago and I read up on the BBB method and I want to stick to it. I have a 12,000 gallon pebble tec pool that gets sun from sun up til sun down. I used to have a DE filter but switched to a sand filter because the DE was clogging too quick. I have a 2hp pump. My yard is dirt with no gravel. Not much tree debris gets in it on a regular basis but dirt does. I have a 75 Dutch Shepherd that loves the pool and loves to get out and run around and then jump back in...I know I know.

    So I started my attempt with a hole full of fresh AZ tap water with a baseline of 250 hardness!, 1 ppm TC! and 0 FC, 100 Alk, 7.2ph, and 20 CYA. I can't give accurate pre drain levels because they were maxed with TH and CYA with an Alk of 240

    So to start I used Dichlor tabs to get my CYA to atleast 50. Accomplished but it did drop the ph slightly...but nothing to worry about. Once the CYA was acceptable and ph came back up I started using Bleach. I bought Clorox 8.25%. They were a bit pricey, but higher concentration so I was ok with it.

    Fast forward 2 months later. It's now over 100 during the day, I'm adding a full bottle, 96 oz of Rinso bleach a day to maintain chlorine levels (Clorox got too expensive), my ph keeps going through the roof and it gets cloudy until I add Muriatic Acid which temporarily fixes the high ph. I'm beyond frustrated!!

    Current levels:

    FCL: .5 usually when I test it every day at 5pm (I add the chlorine when it gets dark)
    TCL: .5
    ALK: 90
    ph: 8.2 (it was 7.2 just 5 days ago)
    CYA: 50

    I tried to lower my TA by adding Acid once I got the ph to 7.0 and aerating to bring it back to 7.2-7.4. I think the high ph bleach is counter acting that though.

    I read that hypo chlorate is hypo chlorate. Well now I come to read that cheaper bleaches have high lye content which they have a very high ph!

    The pool will get cloudy because of the high ph and then clear up once I drop the ph with acid. I'm fighting the onset of algae because I can't keep chlorine in it.

    I was running it 8 hours a night from 6pm to 2am, but I currently added more timer trippers so I run it a total of 12 hours from 6pm to 12am and then again from 7am to 1pm. I realized I was being a mizer trying to save on electricity and shooting myself in the foot with the pool!

    My thoughts: I think I'm running the pool enough as my pocket book will allow, my CYA is ok (could be higher to preserve chlorine, what do you think?), Alk could be lower but I'm fighting to lower that. I need help in maintaining chlorine levels and keeping the ph around 7.4 to 7.5. Is it the bleach?

    I've come here humbled by the hole of water in my back yard and need some assistance and your thoughts.

    I'll be glad to answer any questions raised after reading my saga.

    Thank you in advance for helping me save what little sanity I have left after only fighting this for 1 month of the desert season!

  2. Back To Top    #2
    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    May 2007
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    SWSuburban Chicago, IL
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    11,965

    Re: HELP!!

    I can relate. That's all I'll bore you with about that.

    Now, can you do an overnight Free Chlorine loss test tonight? No chlorine addition, test it now, then test it again in the morning before sun hits the pool. If the FC holds overnight then we need to focus elsewhere, but my guess is you have organics in the water consuming more chlorine than normal (probably the doggie aint helpin).

    If you get a drop of more than 1ppm overnight, then its time to SLAM the pool. Instructions for SLAMing and the OCLT are in Pool School.

    Welcome to the forum. (I didn't get my screenname by accident...)
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Join Date
    Mar 2014
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    Las Vegas
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    Re: HELP!!

    It would also be helpful if your would add your pool info to your signature. 7.2 to 8.2 in 5 days. Must be nice. With new plaster and SWG I go from 7.5 to 8.2 in a day.
    12000 Gallon IG Plaster built 2/15/2014. Jandy 340 sg ft 127 gpm filter, Jandy 1 HP stealth pump. Circupool RJ-45 SWG (overkill). TF-100 with Speed Stir.

  4. Back To Top    #4

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    Jun 2014
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    Phoenix, AZ
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    Re: HELP!!

    Thanks for the replies so quick! I'll check my chlorine drop from dusk to dawn tonight. I'm happy to hear it's somewhat normal what I'm experiencing with the ph raising.

    I'm guessing it is just the extreme hot weather dropping my chlorine. It was ok a month ago when it was slightly cooler.

  5. Back To Top    #5
    Richard320's Avatar
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    Jan 2010
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    San Dimas, CA (LA County)
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    Re: HELP!!

    It shouldn't be any problem finding high quality pool chlorine in Phoenix.

    If you compare FC per ounce per dollar oftentimes the 12.5% stuff is cheaper. I can feed my 16000 gallon pool for about a dollar a day. Maybe it's time to make a few calls to check pricing? This stuff is full strength and comes in returnable jugs. Pay the deposit once and just keep exchanging: http://www.hasapool.com/dealer_locator_hasa.php
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
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    Re: HELP!!

    I had a feeling there was better chlorine out there than Rinso dollar store bleach that doesn't list the hypo chlorate content! I was assuming between 5-6%.

    I'm going to look into that. Thanks Richard! I was hoping to get by with my chlorine costing about $1 per day. I'll also bet adding less of that with a lower ph to start won't raise my ph as much as well.
    12,000 gal pebble tec, 2 hp Hayward 1 speed pump, S310T2 Hayward sand filter (5 square feet filtration)

  7. Back To Top    #7
    freqz's Avatar
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    Sep 2013
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    Dallas, TX
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    Re: HELP!!

    Quote Originally Posted by jmbradwell View Post
    It would also be helpful if your would add your pool info to your signature.
    Yes. This please.

    The way to be sure it's the sun is to run an OCLT tonight.

    One other note...you need to have the minimum FC in your pool at all times. FC of .5 with a CYA of 50 is well below the minimum. You need to dose with bleach to achieve a FC level that will keep you *above* that amount. Start targeting a FC of say 7 or so with your evening addition to give you 3 ppm to lose to the sun every day. Consider raising the CYA to 70 and target FC 8...
    25000 gal in ground plaster. '79 vintage. Cartridge filter.

  8. Back To Top    #8
    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: HELP!!

    Quote Originally Posted by H20AZ View Post
    I had a feeling there was better chlorine out there than Rinso dollar store bleach that doesn't list the hypo chlorate content! I was assuming between 5-6%.

    I'm going to look into that. Thanks Richard! I was hoping to get by with my chlorine costing about $1 per day. I'll also bet adding less of that with a lower ph to start won't raise my ph as much as well.
    I was poking around the internet a little....

    It looks like Rinso is about 4% or less. Compare the barcode UPC on your bottle to be sure: http://kik.chemtel.net/results.php After the page is open, use Ctrl+F for rinso to save hunting
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    7

    Re: HELP!!

    HA! On their MDS "concentrated" bleach it states 3-7%. They aren't sure of their own bleach content? I had a feeling it was lower than 5-6% like I was assuming.

    Thanks for the MDS sheet. I had searched the internet and couldn't find anything.
    12,000 gal pebble tec, 2 hp Hayward 1 speed pump, S310T2 Hayward sand filter (5 square feet filtration)

  10. Back To Top    #10

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    Re: HELP!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320 View Post
    It shouldn't be any problem finding high quality pool chlorine in Phoenix.

    If you compare FC per ounce per dollar oftentimes the 12.5% stuff is cheaper. I can feed my 16000 gallon pool for about a dollar a day. Maybe it's time to make a few calls to check pricing? This stuff is full strength and comes in returnable jugs. Pay the deposit once and just keep exchanging: http://www.hasapool.com/dealer_locator_hasa.php
    You sir are correct!! I took a baseline of Walmart Clorox at 8.25% then the Home Depot Kem-Tec at 10% then the Hasa at 12.5%
    I converted the other 2 down to 8.25% to compare apples to apples and it's $.60 cheaper per gal than Kem-Tec and $.77 cheaper than Clorox!

    Now I have that problem licked!
    12,000 gal pebble tec, 2 hp Hayward 1 speed pump, S310T2 Hayward sand filter (5 square feet filtration)

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