Blue Cloudy Chemically balanced Pool

[Mood Pool]

Hello,

I'm usually a lurker on the forums, always able to find answers to my questions. Been using this method of pool maintenance for almost 8 years after experiencing total frustration over pool maintenance, hence the name "Mood Pool" - that's what my kids started to call it. What's Mom's mood today? Look at the pool! Since I've stopped using pool chems, my mood about my pool is always good

Near the end of last swim season I noticed my pool wasn't clearing like I want. We vacuum, balance, backwash as needed, but no more crystal clear water. My pool chlorine and ph have been "right" for a long time, so I assumed it was a dirty filter. We used a Zeolite filter cleaner last fall before closing.

We opened last week did the opening SLAM as it's now called, and it all tests well. I usually don't worry about ALK (high but ph never climbs) or CAL (vinyl) But I started wondering about calcium precipitate. I ordered new ALK and CAL testing which just came in the mail. My pool is blue but cloudy.

I'd appreciate your input:

CYA 45
FC 3.5
CC 0
PH 7.8
ALK 250
CAL 275

Your thoughts?

 

[JasonLion]

Your ALK level, we call that TA, is way too high. You should follow the instructions in the How To section of Pool School on how to lower TA.

I can't say for certain, but it is very likely that lowering the TA level will resolve the cloudiness. Your levels are just right for calcium clouding, the only solution for which is lowering TA and PH (which you will be doing as part of lowering TA).

 

[Richard320]

I see low FC for the CYA. I see high TA, And I wonder if the filter is filled with Zeolite, or if you just used the cleaner.

 

[Mood Pool]

I know I've done the pool jet, muriatic acid, lower TA before and it took ton of acid and "forever" and I finally read "no need to do this just to hit a target number" so I quit worrying about it and it's been high for five years and the AK never caused my PH to rise. So I wonder why it is now actually causing an issue

Looks like I need to read through the whole pool school thread again, as it was updated this year and probably with some new information. Just when you think you know it all.

Thanks for your help. I'll get on the calculators and figure out how much acid I need next time I make it to town (and purchase stock in that company) and I'll get started on the routine and let you all know how it goes. I want my beautiful pool water back!!

 

[Mood Pool]

I do have Zeolite (didn't mention it in post - sorry! I have it in my signature but that's really more like an afterthought)

I've been ignoring the high TA, thinking it was only a problem if ph was increasing. Apparently I'm wrong

I did add bleach to increase 2ppm today to keep it in range. I'm using the CYA chart showing 3-6 target for 30-50. But I see that also has been updated to be more specific. So it actually should be at least 4 right now. I found the"New and Improved" January 2014 chart and just printed that. So I'll keep watch based on the more precise guidelines. Thanks. Really appreciating the feedback.

 

[Mood Pool]

Another question: as I'm looking for target TA, I see 90+. Well, I obviously have the + part covered! Given how far I would need to drop it, how low is low enough? 90? When my water clears? Drop it by 50 and wait and see?

Thanks.

 

[JasonLion]

If you don't have PH problems, I would work on lowering TA just until the water clears up.

 

[pwrstrk]

Your TA is too high. I would shoot for the 100's and see how stable your PH is. If it needs to come down some more then do so. When your PH is fairly stable your TA is in a good spot, regardless of the number. My TA is 80 and my PH is rock stable at 7.2-7.4. It ain't broken so I don't fix it. ?

 

[Richard320]

Another question: as I'm looking for target TA, I see 90+. Well, I obviously have the + part covered! Given how far I would need to drop it, how low is low enough? 90? When my water clears? Drop it by 50 and wait and see?

Thanks.

When you lower TA, you start by lowering pH to 7.2. Then you aerate to bring pH back up. Then you do it again, checking the acid dose needed because that changes with changing TA. If high TA is the culprit, at some point during this process, you're going to see some improvement. Wherever the water clears up, stop. And if you've gotten down to below 90 and it hasn't cleared, something else is going on.

The first dose of acid is going to lower TA by about 20, and pH should pop back up fairly fast. Each cycle, the amount of acid needed goes down, the amount of TA reduction goes down, and the time it takes for pH to rise will go up. So you can see it is going to be a lengthy process. Don't let the time it takes sour you. You can't rush a pool.

 

[Casey]

My TA is 90 and I have a stable pH of 7.5.

And please do read over Pool School again.

And one more question, Are you losing any FC at night? Just wondering if you could do the OCLT for giggles just to see how that stands by morning.

 

[Divin Dave]

Hi Mood,
I know you are confused about this TA thing, so I decided to to respond just perhaps to ease some of your confusion.
You made a very good point about the TA and what you have read before about it not needing adjusting Ive seen something similar and of the same nature isn a lot of comments too.

Typically is the key word here - Typically TA is not that big of a deal if it is within some reasonable level. TA is usually the last thing you adjust, and it takes a bit of time to tweak it to keep the Ph stable. Your Ph has seemed stable for a long time so no tweaking was done.

However, TA of 250 as you have is not typical. Actually, WOW is what comes to mind!

There are several nteractions that go on with the different things in the water. Apparently, it seems you have gotten to that magic spot where your TA, CH, Ph and water temperature got just right - or wrong .... and now you have cloudy water.

Anyways, you seem well on your way to getting that clean and sparkling water back !!!! Follow these folks direction and you will be just fine in no time.

I know I've done the pool jet, muriatic acid, lower TA before and it took ton of acid and "forever" and I finally read "no need to do this just to hit a target number" so I quit worrying about it and it's been high for five years and the AK never caused my PH to rise. So I wonder why it is now actually causing an issue

 

[Mood Pool]

Wow, this is great information. You are all very clear and very helpful. I'll try the OCLT (I didn't even know that was a "thing" - like I said, back to Pool School I go). I'll get myself set for a nice long process.

 

[Mood Pool]

I did my OCLT yesterday. Was at 5 and dropped to 4 in the morning, which appears to be fairly normal?

Had one gallon of acid on hand - old so I don't know how effective it is - and put it in 3 different dosages. PH had dropped a tad. TA hasn't done anything yet. But I have to wait for stores to open this morning in my small rural town. Hope the acid is in stock so I can get started.

Pool Math tells me different things in different places so I'm not sure what I actually need, just that it will probably take at least 6 gallons (in small doses). Does this sound reasonable?

 

[Richard320]

You need to keep FC above your minimum, always. No matter what else you're doing to the pH and TA.

Your old acid should be fine. It doesn't deteriorate like bleach.

Just take your pH and TA readings and plug them into poolmath. Then target 7.2 pH. It will say to add X amount of acid. That's what you add. Don't complicate things by doublechecking at the bottom. That was just to educate you.

The more vigorously you can aerate, the faster the pH will rise. So point the returns up. If you have a hose bib attached somewhere near the filter, connect a garden hose to it and put a lawn sprinkler on it and hang it so it sprays the pool surface. You want bubbles, lots of them.

If you're feeling adventurous, you could try building something out of PVC pipe. Use the search box above on the word aerator and get some ideas.

 

[Mood Pool]

Update...

Sorry I wasn't clear in my post about the OC test - I added more bleach after that test know it was at the low end of the zone. I'm just assuming a drop of 1 doesn't indicate a lot of contaminates in the pool?

This afternoon I added a gallon of acid. After an hour ph was at 7.2 and TA was at 240 (this could be a really long haul).

I am aerating with the two inlet jets pointed up to create maximum bubbling, as well as added a sprinkler to our make-shift pool slide hose (which shoots off the return from our make-shift roof/sun/black hose heating system). The sprinkler is creating tons of tiny bubbles bouncing around the surface. I think it looks great!!! But my ph is not impressed. It's been 4 hours and it is still 7.2.

Anything else? Or do I just continue to hurry up and wait, listening to the sounds of a babbling brook outside my window as I sleep tonight?

 

[Richard320]

Your pool is like a baby. It does what it wants when it wants and no amount of persuasion will sway it.

 

[Mood Pool]

Update - I've done a few gallons of acid by now. TA is at 200. PH has been at 7.2 for 12 hours. Running pump continuously. Pool is clearing but could be just due to settling debris (calcium precip?) We keep having lightening storms at the time I planned to go out and vacuum, didn't feel like being a human lightening rod - safety first!

Can water temp affect how quickly PH rises? We are still in Polar Bear swim mode here, with water around 50 degrees.

After vacumming and brushing again, if PH gets up to 7.5 I'll dose again to drop TA a bit more. Then if water stays clear I'll stop there until summer when I have additional aerators helping me from within the pool!

I have the far inlet jet and the stair jet aimed up, and by the slide you can see the hose with sprinkler head attached causing tiny bouncing bubbles on the surface. Is this adequate?

 

[JasonLion]

 

[Mood Pool]

Temp 62
FC 5
CC 0
PH 7.2
TA 150-160

I vacuumed up a good dose of white/brown sediment yesterday as well as brushed. This morning I brushed again and there is way less sediment than I've seen for a long time. Pool is definitely clearer, but still a bit cloudy from what I brushed up this morning. I'm wondering about the chemistry, though. If the cloudiness is "calcium precipitate", will that dissolve over time - hours/days/weeks? Will it filter out or is it too fine to filter? Should it already be gone if the water is balanced? I'm not just sure how it behaves so I don't know when I've won!

 

[Divin Dave]

Looking good there Mood! Nice job!
a lot of the pricipitate will be filtered out, and some will go to the bottom to be vacuumed out and some will probably dissolve. Just keep filtering and it should be crystal before long. Its difficult say how long though, but I would expect at least maybe a few days.

Temp 62
FC 5
CC 0
PH 7.2
TA 150-160

I vacuumed up a good dose of white/brown sediment yesterday as well as brushed. This morning I brushed again and there is way less sediment than I've seen for a long time. Pool is definitely clearer, but still a bit cloudy from what I brushed up this morning. I'm wondering about the chemistry, though. If the cloudiness is "calcium precipitate", will that dissolve over time - hours/days/weeks? Will it filter out or is it too fine to filter? Should it already be gone if the water is balanced? I'm not just sure how it behaves so I don't know when I've won!