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Thread: Pool pump bonding need help..

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    Pool pump bonding need help..

    After reading recent posts on how important pool bonding is, i verified my pool setup I don't know what is going on

    I see three bare copper wire from the ground(don't know where it comes from..) , of which, two are connected to the lug nut in pool timer

    [IMG][/IMG]

    other one connected to a lug nut in pump concrete pad,from this lug nut a bare wire goes to my gas water heater

    [IMG][/IMG]

    My pool pump has no bare copper wire attached to it, I don't have any metal parts attached to pool, I remember few times I vacuuming my pool using pool BlasterMax attached to a aluminum pole while pool pump is running, never felt any shock, Anything to worry about? Do I need to hire a professional?
    13K gal, IG, Gunite pool with raised spa water spill over to pool, built on 2005
    1.5 HP Hayward MaxFlo VS - June 2014
    DE Filter Model # DE6020
    Added Borates on Jun 2014

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    Re: Pool pump bonding need help..

    It should be a #8 awg solid wire and all bonded (connected) together. It ties in everything electrical and takes it to ground which is where electricity wants to go. That bare wire is for a short or ground fault and should cause a breaker to trip IMMEDIATELY if there is a problem.

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Pool pump bonding need help..

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickjames View Post
    It should be a #8 awg solid wire and all bonded (connected) together. It ties in everything electrical and takes it to ground which is where electricity wants to go. That bare wire is for a short or ground fault and should cause a breaker to trip IMMEDIATELY if there is a problem.
    Welcome to TFP!

    The bond wire has nothing at all to do with ground or breakers. The bond wire is part of an equipotential bonding system which maintains a constant voltage throughout the pool and the area around it to prevent current flow. The green insulated ground provides the ground path and causes the breaker to trip.
    TFP Moderator
    20K Gallon 20X36 Vinyl Inground
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter with 1HP Whisperflo Pump. Liquidator C-201 and Solar Heat

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    gtemkin's Avatar
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    Re: Pool pump bonding need help..

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnT View Post
    Welcome to TFP!

    The bond wire has nothing at all to do with ground or breakers. The bond wire is part of an equipotential bonding system which maintains a constant voltage throughout the pool and the area around it to prevent current flow. The green insulated ground provides the ground path and causes the breaker to trip.
    Thank you for stating it correctly!!!!
    21K gal 16' x 40' in-ground pool built 1959, old school with Jacuzzi bronze pump, American Products 24" Sand Filter & Americana Multiport valve, Jandy Lite2 millivolt heater, Coverstar cover, and classic Kreepy Krauly.

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    Re: Pool pump bonding need help..

    what Johnt said is correct. One of the biggest fallacies we are taught in school is this whole voltage to ground thing. The basic concept is barely there but, that is what is taught. The reality is, voltage(current) wants to seek it's source and the earth is not the source for current. It is a highly resistive path back to the source. Your bonding grid may, or may not be correct based on what I see in the pictures. The should be a wire buried around the perimeter of the pool and attached at 4 places around the pool. This wire should also be connected to the heater and pump as well as a water bond.

    This bonding loop, grid, system has nothing to do with equipment grounding. Equipment grounding is the metal case of the electrical item being connected back to the grounded source (neutral bar) in the main service panel box, or the ground bar in a sub panel. This is the missing culprit in the recent news sensationalism of the pool shocking news report recently.

    Edit: Under the black cover on the pump there will be a bonding lug. It is a simple fix to run a #8 solid wire from that to the other connection point in the pictures. This will put all pad items into the same potential.
    Unknown make 18' above ground (bought used in 1999) Sparco sand filter. Hayward 100,000 BTu heater. 2 speed pump

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    Re: Pool pump bonding need help..

    Quote Originally Posted by danpik View Post
    what Johnt said is correct. One of the biggest fallacies we are taught in school is this whole voltage to ground thing. The basic concept is barely there but, that is what is taught. The reality is, voltage(current) wants to seek it's source and the earth is not the source for current. It is a highly resistive path back to the source. Your bonding grid may, or may not be correct based on what I see in the pictures. The should be a wire buried around the perimeter of the pool and attached at 4 places around the pool. This wire should also be connected to the heater and pump as well as a water bond.

    This bonding loop, grid, system has nothing to do with equipment grounding. Equipment grounding is the metal case of the electrical item being connected back to the grounded source (neutral bar) in the main service panel box, or the ground bar in a sub panel. This is the missing culprit in the recent news sensationalism of the pool shocking news report recently.

    Edit: Under the black cover on the pump there will be a bonding lug. It is a simple fix to run a #8 solid wire from that to the other connection point in the pictures. This will put all pad items into the same potential.
    Thank you, I will look for for it.
    13K gal, IG, Gunite pool with raised spa water spill over to pool, built on 2005
    1.5 HP Hayward MaxFlo VS - June 2014
    DE Filter Model # DE6020
    Added Borates on Jun 2014

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    Re: Pool pump bonding need help..

    Danpik, how does equipment connected at the sub panel ground to a ground bar if you only have a neutral bar in the sub panel? I think you mixed the descriptions.

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    Re: Pool pump bonding need help..

    Quote Originally Posted by DanielP View Post
    Danpik, how does equipment connected at the sub panel ground to a ground bar if you only have a neutral bar in the sub panel? I think you mixed the descriptions.
    A sub panel by code needs to have a floating neutral bar and a bonded ground bar. All neutrals go to the neutral bar and the grounds all to the ground bar. This is for all sub panels. The main panel is the only place that code allows for the two to co-mingle.

    Here is a good diagram showing this setup...

    Unknown make 18' above ground (bought used in 1999) Sparco sand filter. Hayward 100,000 BTu heater. 2 speed pump

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    Re: Pool pump bonding need help..

    Note: panel bonding and pool bonding are conceptually related, but unrelated in practice.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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