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Thread: Adding borates to raise PH

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    Adding borates to raise PH

    My wife has been taking care of pool why I am at work. After 3 weeks away things looked pretty good. Crystal clear water.
    Initial test on 5-21-14
    FC 9..... this was high because of mis-communication on which way to turn output, she went up, no down
    CC 0
    TA 120
    PH 7.6-7.8
    CYA 50.........we had tons of rain while I was away.
    Salt 3600
    Output 40%

    5-24-14
    So based on the CYA level I have added 10 oz by weight of stabilizer. I know pool math says 23oz to go from 50 to 75 CYA. Just dont want to overshoot. I know going in to this that my PH will go down as I add the stabilizer..
    So which of the three is best to use for raising the PH? Borax, soda ash or washing soda?
    I also see that borax one will add borates to my water. and the other two won't
    Which brands of washing soda or soda ash?


    5-26
    CYA 55
    PH 7.4
    TA 120
    FC 8.5

    5-28
    FC 7.5
    PH 7.2
    TA 110
    CYA 60
    12 x 26 Viking FG IG, Bermuda Model, 3 1/2' to 5', 7000 Gallons, Diamond Series Maya, Hayward 1 1/2 HP Maxflo VS, Hayward Stay Clear Plus Cart Filter C17502(S), Hayward Aqua Rite SWG w/T3 cell, Color Changing FIBERSTAR Lighting, Aqua Bot Supreme Robotic cleaner, Brushed Concrete with CCI Liberty Tan color, Taylor K-2006 test kit, Armor Foundation penetrating concrete sealer(lifetime warranty).

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    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: Adding borates to raise PH

    I usually can only find Arm & Hammer washing soda in my area, but any brand that's basically pure sodium carbonate. It's all the same. If you pick something with a higher price, you're paying for brand and packaging.

    Buy it at a grocery store or something like a Target/WalMart, etc. DON'T buy it at the pool store. You're guaranteed to pay too much.
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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Adding borates to raise PH

    Using Poolmath and scrolling down to Effects of Adding Chemicals, it looks like 10 oz of stabilizer will raise CYA by 11 and lower pH by .2. Running a SWG and having a TA of 110, I expect pH will naturally rise over time and cancel that. I doubt you'll even see a difference in pH. So no adjustment needed.

    Soda Ash and Washing Soda are the same. You can use the Effects of Adding chemicals to see what Borax or Washing Soda will do to pH and TA.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
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    Re: Adding borates to raise PH

    Thanks for the replies. Ill just monitor for now.
    Good to knpw about the soda ash and washing soda.
    Just had test done at PS to see difference.
    Their results
    Fc 5.5
    Ph 7.8
    Cya 40
    Ta 100.....wow way different. I trust my results. The only test that iam still a little uncomfortable woth is the cya

    12 x 26 Viking FG IG, Bermuda Model, 3 1/2' to 5', 7000 Gallons, Diamond Series Maya, Hayward 1 1/2 HP Maxflo VS, Hayward Stay Clear Plus Cart Filter C17502(S), Hayward Aqua Rite SWG w/T3 cell, Color Changing FIBERSTAR Lighting, Aqua Bot Supreme Robotic cleaner, Brushed Concrete with CCI Liberty Tan color, Taylor K-2006 test kit, Armor Foundation penetrating concrete sealer(lifetime warranty).

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    Re: Adding borates to raise PH

    Today I tested again. It's been 6 days since i added 10 oz of stabilizer. Looks like the CYA has leveled off at 60.
    FC 5.5
    CC .5
    PH up a little from last test now 7.4
    TA 110
    CH 200
    CYA holding at 60
    I need to add water to the pool ... about 2 inches. So I am guesing that I need to take care of that first before I raise the CYA any further? The water level is still covering the opening of the skimmer( not critical), plus I am going to be away for the weekend. So with the chemical levels where they are, I am thinking that I should tackle the water level when I get home Sunday.....any thoughts on my process?
    12 x 26 Viking FG IG, Bermuda Model, 3 1/2' to 5', 7000 Gallons, Diamond Series Maya, Hayward 1 1/2 HP Maxflo VS, Hayward Stay Clear Plus Cart Filter C17502(S), Hayward Aqua Rite SWG w/T3 cell, Color Changing FIBERSTAR Lighting, Aqua Bot Supreme Robotic cleaner, Brushed Concrete with CCI Liberty Tan color, Taylor K-2006 test kit, Armor Foundation penetrating concrete sealer(lifetime warranty).

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    Re: Adding borates to raise PH

    Sounds like a plan. Add the water then test CYA again. My tests usually come out between 60 and 70, so I'm not adjusting my CYA. I am OK with it not being right on the nose at 70.

    I do get concerned if the water level isn't high enough to fill the skimmer though. I won't even let it get to the point that the skimmer seems a little starved.
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    Re: Adding borates to raise PH

    ok so i should start adding some water before i leave out of town later?
    12 x 26 Viking FG IG, Bermuda Model, 3 1/2' to 5', 7000 Gallons, Diamond Series Maya, Hayward 1 1/2 HP Maxflo VS, Hayward Stay Clear Plus Cart Filter C17502(S), Hayward Aqua Rite SWG w/T3 cell, Color Changing FIBERSTAR Lighting, Aqua Bot Supreme Robotic cleaner, Brushed Concrete with CCI Liberty Tan color, Taylor K-2006 test kit, Armor Foundation penetrating concrete sealer(lifetime warranty).

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    Re: Adding borates to raise PH

    The water level rising and falling due to evaporation and refill won't have much effect on the CYA. It doesn't evaporate. When the water level is down, maybe you're at 62. When it is filled almost to the top of the skimmer, maybe 58. You might not be able to see the difference when you test. If you need water, add it!
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Adding borates to raise PH

    Thanks Richard. I guess it would take a lot of water addition or loss to make a real difference. Like 1/3 of the pool vol.
    That helps in my decision making.

    12 x 26 Viking FG IG, Bermuda Model, 3 1/2' to 5', 7000 Gallons, Diamond Series Maya, Hayward 1 1/2 HP Maxflo VS, Hayward Stay Clear Plus Cart Filter C17502(S), Hayward Aqua Rite SWG w/T3 cell, Color Changing FIBERSTAR Lighting, Aqua Bot Supreme Robotic cleaner, Brushed Concrete with CCI Liberty Tan color, Taylor K-2006 test kit, Armor Foundation penetrating concrete sealer(lifetime warranty).

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    Re: Adding borates to raise PH

    Back from weekend trip. I sid add wtr before I left.
    Fc 5
    Cc .5
    Ta 7.4
    Ch 190 to 200
    Cya 55 to 60....where exactly is the correct reading taken from. Dot just starts to go away but still barley visable. Or completely disappears. ?
    Salt 3500
    Should I raise the ch a tad bit?

    12 x 26 Viking FG IG, Bermuda Model, 3 1/2' to 5', 7000 Gallons, Diamond Series Maya, Hayward 1 1/2 HP Maxflo VS, Hayward Stay Clear Plus Cart Filter C17502(S), Hayward Aqua Rite SWG w/T3 cell, Color Changing FIBERSTAR Lighting, Aqua Bot Supreme Robotic cleaner, Brushed Concrete with CCI Liberty Tan color, Taylor K-2006 test kit, Armor Foundation penetrating concrete sealer(lifetime warranty).

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    Re: Adding borates to raise PH

    added 30 oz of calcium chloride to get my CH up to around 220
    12 x 26 Viking FG IG, Bermuda Model, 3 1/2' to 5', 7000 Gallons, Diamond Series Maya, Hayward 1 1/2 HP Maxflo VS, Hayward Stay Clear Plus Cart Filter C17502(S), Hayward Aqua Rite SWG w/T3 cell, Color Changing FIBERSTAR Lighting, Aqua Bot Supreme Robotic cleaner, Brushed Concrete with CCI Liberty Tan color, Taylor K-2006 test kit, Armor Foundation penetrating concrete sealer(lifetime warranty).

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    Re: Adding borates to raise PH

    CYA is when you can't see it anymore.

    Most of us take multiple readings with the same sample, just pouring it back and forth until we're certain of the reading, or get the same one 3 times in a row, whatever.

    Your CH is fine for a fiberglass pool. It will slowly creep up with evaporation and water additions.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Adding borates to raise PH

    Ok on the CYA......that's what I have been doing since my arms are a lot shorter than they used to be. I'll pour it back 3 or 4 times just to make sure I am seeing it right.
    So on the CYA subject, based on my FC of 5, the chlorine/cya chart says I should be up are a 70 CYA. Should I raise it 10 more ppm?
    12 x 26 Viking FG IG, Bermuda Model, 3 1/2' to 5', 7000 Gallons, Diamond Series Maya, Hayward 1 1/2 HP Maxflo VS, Hayward Stay Clear Plus Cart Filter C17502(S), Hayward Aqua Rite SWG w/T3 cell, Color Changing FIBERSTAR Lighting, Aqua Bot Supreme Robotic cleaner, Brushed Concrete with CCI Liberty Tan color, Taylor K-2006 test kit, Armor Foundation penetrating concrete sealer(lifetime warranty).

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    Re: Adding borates to raise PH

    Quote Originally Posted by rmturner54 View Post
    Ok on the CYA......that's what I have been doing since my arms are a lot shorter than they used to be. I'll pour it back 3 or 4 times just to make sure I am seeing it right.
    So on the CYA subject, based on my FC of 5, the chlorine/cya chart says I should be up are a 70 CYA. Should I raise it 10 more ppm?
    If you're using the SWG, then 70 is a good target for your CYA. You should see 5 FC at the end of the day, which gives you a reserve in case a bunch of sweaty people go swimming.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Adding borates to raise PH

    ok thanks, it makes more sense now. Plus I also just got thru reading the article on cya/cholrine relationship.
    So basically you don't want the fc to go below minimum and always shoot for target number by the end of the day ( when pump and swg shut off)
    By the chart then with CYA at 60, my minimun is 3 and target 4 by the end of the day, if I have a fc target of 5 by the end of the day then i am good for any sweaty ones that might want to take a dip.
    My pump shuts off at 8PM so a target of 5 is good insurance for those evening swims.
    12 x 26 Viking FG IG, Bermuda Model, 3 1/2' to 5', 7000 Gallons, Diamond Series Maya, Hayward 1 1/2 HP Maxflo VS, Hayward Stay Clear Plus Cart Filter C17502(S), Hayward Aqua Rite SWG w/T3 cell, Color Changing FIBERSTAR Lighting, Aqua Bot Supreme Robotic cleaner, Brushed Concrete with CCI Liberty Tan color, Taylor K-2006 test kit, Armor Foundation penetrating concrete sealer(lifetime warranty).

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    Re: Adding borates to raise PH

    Checked FC after pump shut off for the night. FC =5

    12 x 26 Viking FG IG, Bermuda Model, 3 1/2' to 5', 7000 Gallons, Diamond Series Maya, Hayward 1 1/2 HP Maxflo VS, Hayward Stay Clear Plus Cart Filter C17502(S), Hayward Aqua Rite SWG w/T3 cell, Color Changing FIBERSTAR Lighting, Aqua Bot Supreme Robotic cleaner, Brushed Concrete with CCI Liberty Tan color, Taylor K-2006 test kit, Armor Foundation penetrating concrete sealer(lifetime warranty).

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    Re: Adding borates to raise PH

    Checked CH today after dosing, it's 230
    12 x 26 Viking FG IG, Bermuda Model, 3 1/2' to 5', 7000 Gallons, Diamond Series Maya, Hayward 1 1/2 HP Maxflo VS, Hayward Stay Clear Plus Cart Filter C17502(S), Hayward Aqua Rite SWG w/T3 cell, Color Changing FIBERSTAR Lighting, Aqua Bot Supreme Robotic cleaner, Brushed Concrete with CCI Liberty Tan color, Taylor K-2006 test kit, Armor Foundation penetrating concrete sealer(lifetime warranty).

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