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Thread: How best to quickly distribute 12lbs of cyanuric acid POWDER in a self-cleaning pool?

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    How best to quickly distribute 12lbs of cyanuric acid POWDER in a self-cleaning pool?

    EDIT: I should have made it clear that not only is this a different type of pool than "normal", but, I can't even operate the equipment yet - so there's no circulation - until the water level gets higher - which takes weeks - and - the CYA is in the "professional" powdered form (not the low solubility "retail" granules) - so the problem set is not the typical one.

    The question is how best to professionally distribute pounds of cyanuric acid powder in a single sitting.

    After emptying & almost refilling my pool (from my slow well), I went through 12 gallons of chlorine in the three weeks that it has taken to almost fill it - and I still have a week or so to go on the filling (all without benefit of the pool cleaning system or the filtration system, which requires a higher water level).

    Yet, my chlorine level was again down to zero today.

    So, to cut my chlorine losses, I picked up a dozen pounds of the special "professional" 98% HASA powdered Cyanuric acid, and was wondering what's the best way to distribute this professional product, given my non-standard circumstances, namely:
    a) I can't yet operate the skimmers nor the filter (because the water level is still too low).
    b) Even if I could operate the skimmers, they're unfiltered (all they do is feed the pop-up jets) so I wouldn't want clumps of CYA cloging up the water valves.
    c) The sun is killing the chlorine almost as fast as I can pour it in, even with four big 3" trichlor floaters in the pool!

    This 98% CYA baby powder "appears" to dissolve quicker than the 99% hard granules do, but it also clumps quickly if I just drop it into the pool.
    Silicon Valley, 38,500 gallons in-ground plaster; Sta-Rite System 3 Model S8M150, 259 sqft cartridge 25022-0203S + 191 sqft cartridge #25021-0202S = 450 sqft filter@0.28gpm/sqft = 125 gpm@50psi max. Three 220v Sta-Rite Max-e-Glas II pumps {AO Smith QC1102 1.0x1.65SF for filter + cleaner; SQ1152 1.5x1.47SF for spa jets; square 48Y flange}. 13 Fafco 12'x4' professionally installed "Revolution" solar heating panels + Raypak RP2100 P-R 405A-EP LPG 399,000/hour heater + Compool Lx3600 controller + Infinity 4000 automatic pool cover (120v 3/4 HP motor); both skimmers are NOT filtered & serve only as intake for 9-port water valves (aka cleaner heads) controlling fifteen Paramount PCC2000 3" self-cleaning jets with the optional Debris Containment Canister.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: What is the best way to distribute 12 pounds of cyanuric acid in a self-cleaning

    Put it in socks and tie them to a noodle? Or put them in a floater?

    Clogging of the pipes if you put it in the skimmer is not a concern if you use the sock or t-shirt like we recommend.
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    Re: What is the best way to distribute 12 pounds of cyanuric acid in a self-cleaning

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    Put it in socks and tie them to a noodle? Or put them in a floater? Clogging of the pipes if you put it in the skimmer is not a concern if you use the sock or t-shirt like we recommend.
    I'm not sure what a "noodle" is, but I suspect that's the attachment point on the edge of the pool for putting a rope separating the deep end from the shallow end?

    I had not thought of putting the powder into a floater. That might work, so I'll try that tomorrow in the daylight, since I have four of them in the pool currently (one of which was pulled from the trash for the emergency):


    Unfortunately, the equipment can't be run until the water level goes up, and since the water level is taking weeks to fill up the pool from my California well, and since 12 gallons of chlorine disappeared all too quickly from the California sun load, the whole reason for going to the trouble to find the "professional" powder was to get the CYA levels up instantly.

    EDIT: Almost certainly, putting the powder in a floater will simply turn it into a block of CYA, based on my clumping experiments performed later in this thread.
    Silicon Valley, 38,500 gallons in-ground plaster; Sta-Rite System 3 Model S8M150, 259 sqft cartridge 25022-0203S + 191 sqft cartridge #25021-0202S = 450 sqft filter@0.28gpm/sqft = 125 gpm@50psi max. Three 220v Sta-Rite Max-e-Glas II pumps {AO Smith QC1102 1.0x1.65SF for filter + cleaner; SQ1152 1.5x1.47SF for spa jets; square 48Y flange}. 13 Fafco 12'x4' professionally installed "Revolution" solar heating panels + Raypak RP2100 P-R 405A-EP LPG 399,000/hour heater + Compool Lx3600 controller + Infinity 4000 automatic pool cover (120v 3/4 HP motor); both skimmers are NOT filtered & serve only as intake for 9-port water valves (aka cleaner heads) controlling fifteen Paramount PCC2000 3" self-cleaning jets with the optional Debris Containment Canister.

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    Re: What is the best way to distribute 12 pounds of cyanuric acid in a self-cleaning

    EDIT: I learned later in this thread that my technique was off; you must keep the skimmer dry as a bone at all times for this method to work!

    I did try the trick suggested at the pool store that sold me the powdered (not granular!) cyanuric acid.
    They suggested just putting a cup of the HASA cyanuric acid powder onto the skimmer net, and sweeping it through the pool.

    That works for a minute or two, but, what's left on the skimmer net after a minute are hard wet clumps, which, if I let them go, fall to the pool floor:
    Silicon Valley, 38,500 gallons in-ground plaster; Sta-Rite System 3 Model S8M150, 259 sqft cartridge 25022-0203S + 191 sqft cartridge #25021-0202S = 450 sqft filter@0.28gpm/sqft = 125 gpm@50psi max. Three 220v Sta-Rite Max-e-Glas II pumps {AO Smith QC1102 1.0x1.65SF for filter + cleaner; SQ1152 1.5x1.47SF for spa jets; square 48Y flange}. 13 Fafco 12'x4' professionally installed "Revolution" solar heating panels + Raypak RP2100 P-R 405A-EP LPG 399,000/hour heater + Compool Lx3600 controller + Infinity 4000 automatic pool cover (120v 3/4 HP motor); both skimmers are NOT filtered & serve only as intake for 9-port water valves (aka cleaner heads) controlling fifteen Paramount PCC2000 3" self-cleaning jets with the optional Debris Containment Canister.

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    Butterfly's Avatar
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    Re: What is the best way to distribute 12 pounds of cyanuric acid in a self-cleaning

    We don't normally recommend it because of the expense, but you may want to consider using the liquid CYA.
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: What is the best way to distribute 12 pounds of cyanuric acid in a self-cleaning

    Nothing gets out of the sock or t-shirt until it is dissolved, so will not cause a problem. Definitely do not want it sitting in clumps on the bottom though.

    It seems like you are trying to get it to dissolve instantly, what is the hurry? just let it soak and squeeze it occasionally.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: What is the best way to distribute 12 pounds of cyanuric acid in a self-cleaning

    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly View Post
    We don't normally recommend it because of the expense, but you may want to consider using the liquid CYA.
    I agree with you that the liquid CYA is far too expensive to be worth it, and the granular CYA takes forever to dissolve twelve pounds.

    My problem is that it has taken three weeks, so far, to fill the pool, and I'm not done filling it yet (I have another foot to go).
    So, since there is no vacuum (it's a self-cleaning pool), and since I can't operate any of the pumps yet (until the water almost reaches the deck), I've been pouring liquid chlorine in.

    But it has taken 12 gallons of 12% (by volume) HASA chlorine already, and the chlorine level was again down to zero today.

    So, I asked the pool store if they'd sell me, on the side of course, the "professional" CYA powder (intead of the "retail" granules).
    That's why, in the OP, it's in a bag, because they pulled it out of a big blue HASA barrel.

    The logic, since I can't operate the cleaners or the filters yet, given that I'm losing too much chlorine due to the combination of California sunshine and zero CYA (despite four floaters filled with Trichlor 3" tablets), is that I need to add about 12 pounds of CYA fast.

    I tried scrubbing four or five of the 3" pucks of trichlor against the pool walls, but, even so, that didn't make a dent on the CYA levels.
    So, the logic here is to get 12 pounds of CYA into that pool fast - hence the powder, which is new to me.
    Silicon Valley, 38,500 gallons in-ground plaster; Sta-Rite System 3 Model S8M150, 259 sqft cartridge 25022-0203S + 191 sqft cartridge #25021-0202S = 450 sqft filter@0.28gpm/sqft = 125 gpm@50psi max. Three 220v Sta-Rite Max-e-Glas II pumps {AO Smith QC1102 1.0x1.65SF for filter + cleaner; SQ1152 1.5x1.47SF for spa jets; square 48Y flange}. 13 Fafco 12'x4' professionally installed "Revolution" solar heating panels + Raypak RP2100 P-R 405A-EP LPG 399,000/hour heater + Compool Lx3600 controller + Infinity 4000 automatic pool cover (120v 3/4 HP motor); both skimmers are NOT filtered & serve only as intake for 9-port water valves (aka cleaner heads) controlling fifteen Paramount PCC2000 3" self-cleaning jets with the optional Debris Containment Canister.

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    Re: What is the best way to distribute 12 pounds of cyanuric acid in a self-cleaning

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    Nothing gets out of the sock or t-shirt until it is dissolved, so will not cause a problem. Definitely do not want it sitting in clumps on the bottom though. It seems like you are trying to get it to dissolve instantly, what is the hurry? just let it soak and squeeze it occasionally.
    You are correct in that I'm trying to get the CYA level up instantly.

    The hurry is that:
    (a) The pool equipment can't be run until the water level gets to the skimmers and debris cannister.
    (b) That means there is no cleaning and no filtering (note there is no vacuum in a self-cleaning pool).
    (c) Filling the pool has taken three weeks so far (with my California well) and looks to take another week.
    (d) I thought I could get away with liquid chlorine until the four 3" trichlor floaters caught up, but that's a losing proposition.
    (e) I even tried scaping a few trichlor pucks along the side walls until they were dissolved into the water, but they didn't make a dent.

    I'll keep trying.

    After trying a few methods, the best I could come up with, so far today anyway, was to quickly dissolve a cup or three of the powder in water, which takes only a minute:

    And then, instead of pouring that mostly dissolved CYA into the pool, I filter it once through a skimmer net into another bucket:

    Which traps a clump of the power on the skimmer net:

    And then I pour that second bucket into the pool:

    The result is a milky pool, at least for a few minutes until the powdered CYA dissipates:
    Silicon Valley, 38,500 gallons in-ground plaster; Sta-Rite System 3 Model S8M150, 259 sqft cartridge 25022-0203S + 191 sqft cartridge #25021-0202S = 450 sqft filter@0.28gpm/sqft = 125 gpm@50psi max. Three 220v Sta-Rite Max-e-Glas II pumps {AO Smith QC1102 1.0x1.65SF for filter + cleaner; SQ1152 1.5x1.47SF for spa jets; square 48Y flange}. 13 Fafco 12'x4' professionally installed "Revolution" solar heating panels + Raypak RP2100 P-R 405A-EP LPG 399,000/hour heater + Compool Lx3600 controller + Infinity 4000 automatic pool cover (120v 3/4 HP motor); both skimmers are NOT filtered & serve only as intake for 9-port water valves (aka cleaner heads) controlling fifteen Paramount PCC2000 3" self-cleaning jets with the optional Debris Containment Canister.

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    Re: Faster Dissolving Cyanuric Acid

    The pool store said not to put the powder in a sock because they said the powder would just clump up inside the sock. I'm not sure if that's what will happen (I will test it out tomorrow) but the point is that the POWDER is way different than the GRANULES - so - that's why I ask first.

    To be clear, I knew about and have used the painfully slow sock approach in the past with the "retail" very slow dissolving cyanuric acid granules; but that was when I already had some CYA and also that was when the pool equipment could be run ... so I had more time because the water was being filtered.

    Now I'm trying to raise the CYA levels fast since I haven't been able to run the pool equipment for weeks and, as of tonight, 16 gallons of chlorine have gone into the pool, with almost nothing residual to show for it.

    To be sure, I'm trying out various methods as we speak.

    At the moment, the most effective method seems to be to to pour the milky white liquid, but the trick that I am working to overcome is how to prevent the clumps sitting on the pool floor. I will run some experiments today and report back what I learn.
    Silicon Valley, 38,500 gallons in-ground plaster; Sta-Rite System 3 Model S8M150, 259 sqft cartridge 25022-0203S + 191 sqft cartridge #25021-0202S = 450 sqft filter@0.28gpm/sqft = 125 gpm@50psi max. Three 220v Sta-Rite Max-e-Glas II pumps {AO Smith QC1102 1.0x1.65SF for filter + cleaner; SQ1152 1.5x1.47SF for spa jets; square 48Y flange}. 13 Fafco 12'x4' professionally installed "Revolution" solar heating panels + Raypak RP2100 P-R 405A-EP LPG 399,000/hour heater + Compool Lx3600 controller + Infinity 4000 automatic pool cover (120v 3/4 HP motor); both skimmers are NOT filtered & serve only as intake for 9-port water valves (aka cleaner heads) controlling fifteen Paramount PCC2000 3" self-cleaning jets with the optional Debris Containment Canister.

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    Re: How best to quickly distribute 12lbs of cyanuric acid POWDER in a self-cleaning p

    I would not try to add CYA without the pump running. That is sure to lead to CYA powder on the bottom of the pool, which can damage the pool surface.

    You can't maintain a pool without circulation in the same way you do with circulation.
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    Re: How best to quickly distribute 12lbs of cyanuric acid POWDER in a self-cleaning p

    Just curious but when your testing FC and get no reading, are you getting a CC reading?
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
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    Re: How best to quickly distribute 12lbs of cyanuric acid POWDER in a self-cleaning p

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    Put it in socks and tie them to a noodle? Or put them in a floater?
    Quote Originally Posted by rock
    I'm not sure what a "noodle" is
    Here are some images of Pool Noodles
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    Re: How best to quickly distribute 12lbs of cyanuric acid POWDER in a self-cleaning p

    How about using a submersible utility pump in the pool just to create some water movement?
    24 foot 54 inch AGP, 14.5k gallons, 1hp pump, 120 sq foot cartridge filter

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    Re: How best to quickly distribute 12lbs of cyanuric acid POWDER in a self-cleaning p

    Is there a reason why, since it takes so long to fill with the hose, that you don't just bite the bullet and have water delivered by a tanker? that should get you 7000 gallons in the pool in about 45 minutes. Anywhere from $250-300 is what I've seen. I paid $275 a truck load (needed 3) and then I just topped off the last 6" or do with the hose.
    24'x40' 25k gal Imperial Mountain Pond IGP, full 28 mil VynAll Ocean Breakers liner. All Hayward system: 140k BTU HeatPro heat pump, 3/4HP single speed TriStar 2" Pump, DE6020 filter, AquaPlus Automation/Salt Chlorination, remote controls, ColorLogic 4.0 lighting. Polaris 280 w/PB4-60 BP. TF100 & K1766 test kits. Rinox Palazzo pavers and Spherik coping. Pool installed 9/2013, project completed 6/16/14.

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    Re: How best to quickly distribute 12lbs of cyanuric acid POWDER in a self-cleaning p

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion View Post
    I would not try to add CYA without the pump running. That is sure to lead to CYA powder on the bottom of the pool, which can damage the pool surface. You can't maintain a pool without circulation in the same way you do with circulation.
    I understand.

    If I sweep the professional powdered CYA through the pool on a skimmer net, as the pool store had suggested, I still end up with some clumps on the pool floor:


    I wouldn't even bother with the professional CYA powder had pouring a dozen gallons of HASA bleach plus using four 3" trchlor floating dispensers plus rubbing a half dozen trichlor tablets to dust alongside the edge of the pool worked:


    Quote Originally Posted by frustratedpoolmom View Post
    Just curious but when your testing FC and get no reading, are you getting a CC reading?
    Free Available Chlorine (FAC) = 0ppm <== and that's after at least 8 gallons of chlorine were added in the past couple of weeks
    Total Available Chlorine (TAC) = 0ppm
    Calcium Hardness (CH) = 200ppm <=== this is straight out of the well
    Cyanuric Acid (CYA) = 0ppm <=== this is after weeks of four floaters with 3" trichlor pucks + scrubbing the walls with trichlor pucks to dissolve them faster!
    Total Alkalinity (TA) = 180ppm
    pH = 7.8
    Copper = 0ppm
    Iron = 0ppm
    Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) = 500
    Phosphates = 50ppb
    Quote Originally Posted by BoDarville View Post
    Here are some images of Pool Noodles
    Ah. I see. Thanks.

    I ran a preliminary test this morning on the powdered CYA, which shows, I think, that the solution for distributing the powder is almost certainly the OPPOSITE of what we'd do for the granules, since the wet powder desperately wants to clump, which negates the whole point of using powder in the first place!


    Quote Originally Posted by Akronstax View Post
    How about using a submersible utility pump in the pool just to create some water movement?
    It would take a very big pump to move almost 40K gallons of water, as this is the only sized submersible pump I have at my current disposal:


    If the pool were round, it might be more feasible, but it's highly rectangular (60x15).


    Luckily, there are popups everwhere, which, when I can start them, will swirl the entire pool over in something like 8 hours.


    Quote Originally Posted by steveg_nh View Post
    Is there a reason why, since it takes so long to fill with the hose, that you don't just bite the bullet and have water delivered by a tanker? that should get you 7000 gallons in the pool in about 45 minutes. Anywhere from $250-300 is what I've seen. I paid $275 a truck load (needed 3) and then I just topped off the last 6" or do with the hose.
    I don't have a source for tanked in water, but I'm sure I could find one. I highly doubt that here, in the Silicon Valley, any delivery of anything sizeable would be anywhere near in the few hundred dollar range, but more than that, my well water is PERFECT for pool water in all ways possible (as can be seen by the water report that I will attach).

    No sense in wasting such good water. I just need to solve the technical problems, which are eminantly solvable (with the right knowledge, which I'm attaining, partly by asking here). Here's a shot of the perfect-for-pools well water when I started filling it, weeks ago:
    Silicon Valley, 38,500 gallons in-ground plaster; Sta-Rite System 3 Model S8M150, 259 sqft cartridge 25022-0203S + 191 sqft cartridge #25021-0202S = 450 sqft filter@0.28gpm/sqft = 125 gpm@50psi max. Three 220v Sta-Rite Max-e-Glas II pumps {AO Smith QC1102 1.0x1.65SF for filter + cleaner; SQ1152 1.5x1.47SF for spa jets; square 48Y flange}. 13 Fafco 12'x4' professionally installed "Revolution" solar heating panels + Raypak RP2100 P-R 405A-EP LPG 399,000/hour heater + Compool Lx3600 controller + Infinity 4000 automatic pool cover (120v 3/4 HP motor); both skimmers are NOT filtered & serve only as intake for 9-port water valves (aka cleaner heads) controlling fifteen Paramount PCC2000 3" self-cleaning jets with the optional Debris Containment Canister.

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    Re: How best to quickly distribute 12lbs of cyanuric acid POWDER in a self-cleaning p

    I ran a quick caking experiment today on the professional CYA powder, and found that it turns into a cement-like brick, unless you KEEP it as a powder while dissolving!

    1. I gathered a bucket of water, a cup of professional CYA powder, and an impromptu powder sifter:

    2. I sifted the professional CYA powder simply by gently shaking the skimmer net:

    3. The result of gentle sifting was a small pile of clumped granules:

    4. Only the powder went into the bucket of water:

    5. When I emptied the bucket, this block of CYA cement was on the bottom!


    What this experiment shows, is that any attempt to contain the professional CYA powder (va a sock, shirt, noodle, etc.), might just end up turning it into a solid block of CYA cement, which is the opposite of the desired result.

    Had I wanted a block of CYA, I would have stuck with the "retail" granules (which I'm very familiar with, since I empty the pool every year).

    I will run the powder dissolving experiement again, but, this time, swishing the water as the powder is sifted into it.
    Silicon Valley, 38,500 gallons in-ground plaster; Sta-Rite System 3 Model S8M150, 259 sqft cartridge 25022-0203S + 191 sqft cartridge #25021-0202S = 450 sqft filter@0.28gpm/sqft = 125 gpm@50psi max. Three 220v Sta-Rite Max-e-Glas II pumps {AO Smith QC1102 1.0x1.65SF for filter + cleaner; SQ1152 1.5x1.47SF for spa jets; square 48Y flange}. 13 Fafco 12'x4' professionally installed "Revolution" solar heating panels + Raypak RP2100 P-R 405A-EP LPG 399,000/hour heater + Compool Lx3600 controller + Infinity 4000 automatic pool cover (120v 3/4 HP motor); both skimmers are NOT filtered & serve only as intake for 9-port water valves (aka cleaner heads) controlling fifteen Paramount PCC2000 3" self-cleaning jets with the optional Debris Containment Canister.

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    Re: How best to quickly distribute 12lbs of cyanuric acid POWDER in a self-cleaning p

    Off the subject, Rock, but after 240 posts and years on the forum, you still go to the pool store for your testing? Really?
    Dave S.
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    Re: How best to quickly distribute 12lbs of cyanuric acid POWDER in a self-cleaning p

    I bought HTH branded CYA granules, that stuff dissolved FAST. (I had water movement)

    Anywho, If I was in your predicament, I'd buy 5 gal bucket and a mixing paddle for a drill. Liquefy the CYA before adding it to your pool. Or if you want to do it slower, buy a spare blender.
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    Re: How best to quickly distribute 12lbs of cyanuric acid POWDER in a self-cleaning p

    Quote Originally Posted by mrcarcrazy View Post
    Anywho, If I was in your predicament, I'd buy 5 gal bucket and a mixing paddle for a drill. Liquefy the CYA before adding it to your pool. Or if you want to do it slower, buy a spare blender.
    This will not work. CYA simply will not dissolve in a bucket (beyond a nearly imperceptible amount).
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: How best to quickly distribute 12lbs of cyanuric acid POWDER in a self-cleaning p

    I would suggest getting the HTH granules, grabbing your submersible pump and fabricating something using a sock or shirt to fix it in front of the return Jet of the pump.

    I have found that when the sock is directly in front of the jet of water, the granules will dissolve very quickly. I fastened it to stay in front of the return with string and with my help of squeezing it every hour or so it dissolved in about 6 hours. Granted your pool is much larger, it may still all get dissolved in a few days and at least you would have some cya in the water instantly and have a little bit of circulation.

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