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Thread: First timer... Trying the TFP method. Just looking for a little direction.

  1. Back To Top    #1

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    First timer... Trying the TFP method. Just looking for a little direction.

    I bought a above ground Intex 18' x 48" pool at the beginning of fall in 2013. Bad timing on my part but I kept it up and maintained through the winter. I also need to be clear that I love my pool! While it got dead leaves and such in it through the winter the water stayed clear. When summer started I found the pump that came with the pool had failed when I noticed a green hue about my pool one morning.

    I got a new pump fast. Now summer is rolling up and I'm trying hard to stay ahead of trouble. I had bought a 5 way test kit at a store and tested and wrote down all of my results. I then for the first time took a sample of water to a local pool store sine i had to by supplies anyways.

    Oddly their results conflicted with mine in a major way. Knowing my test could not be that off and knowing I did them correctly I had to be suspect of the pool store results. They also then tried to sell me phosphate remover for a pretty penny. I was suspect so I bought only what I went up there for and came home and started researching. I quickly found and adored this place. I have since quickly moved into the realm of TFP maintenance on my pool.

    I have since bought the 2006 test kit and added CYA along with Borates. Please tell me what I need to change on my signature to make it what it needs to read. Here is where I stand so far with my pool's water test:



    JH (name initials)
    5.455K Gal, AG Intex rubber pool, Type B cartridge filter in a Intex model T633 2,500 GPH single speed ( HP?) pump, Installed 09/2014, SWG

    Test Results:

    FC - 2.5
    CC - 2.5
    pH - 7.4
    TA - 110
    CH - 120 (in a rubber pool this should not matter at all right?)
    CYA - 50
    Borates - 40???

    I just wanted to ask about a few little details. I'm about to add Clorox to raise my FC. I'm torn on what my target should be. I read where 2.0 can be good for SWG pools and I've read that because I have conditioner I need to jack it way up to 5.0 I hear that because my TA is high my PH will go up so I'm not treating it to get it to 7.6 which is where I think I want it. Where can I get a good Borates Tester. I'm guessing I have this much based on putting in a certain quantity of PoolProof for this size of pool. I'd like to lower my TA to 70. I'd like to raise my CYA to 70.

    I have read that my FC is my first concern but also read that it is also depends first on my TA level and borates quantity. My salt is at 3,000 ppm. Everything seems pretty good already. What should I fix first to make it more in line with good specs and then what would I go after next after i get part 1 in order.

    I'm having a ton of fun with this pool already and am already gunning for a much bigger and more permanent pool later on but this is great practice and such a cheap start up cost! My kids love it almost as much as I do!

    That is all for now. great to be hear and better to see all you folks here posting good info. Thanks!

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: First timer... Trying the TFP method. Just looking for a little direction.

    Welcome!

    If your CC level is really 2.5, you need to SLAM. There's something in your water you need to eliminate.

    Get that cured and then worry about the rest. You're good to start eradicating the Combined Chlorine. The sooner you start, the faster it will be done, and the less it will cost. And actually, aside from the CC, you're not looking too bad.

    With 50 CYA, your FC target is <gasp> 20 FC. For a 5455 gallon pool, that means 3 full jugs of 8.25% Chlorox. And that's just for the initial dose! You'll need lots more to keep it up there. So recheck that FC & CC.

    Here's the SLAM directions: http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...tain-shockingl
    And when it's done, here's the water balance for a SWG pool: http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...rine-generator

    This is classic: "Oddly their results conflicted with mine in a major way. Knowing my test could not be that off and knowing I did them correctly I had to be suspect of the pool store results. They also then tried to sell me phosphate remover for a pretty penny."

    And as it happens, I was just working on a new stock image. You get it first.

    lyingeyes.jpg
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Casey's Avatar
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    Re: First timer... Trying the TFP method. Just looking for a little direction.

    Welcome JH! Hope you enjoy TFP thus far!

    Can you double check the CC for us? As Richard said, if it's really 2.5ppm, you've got to SLAM and tell the kiddies to hold off. I know that's kinda hard for them but just until you get the pool well. I never liked letting my kids swim in a cloudy pool which happened 1 time before I found TFP over 7 years ago!

    Good for you on getting the test kit.
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

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    Re: First timer... Trying the TFP method. Just looking for a little direction.

    (Edit): To Casey, I didn't see the request to double check the CC until I posted my response and saw your post.

    Thank you so much for the fast response. By the way, I posted my water test results with errors. My CC is not 2.5 it is about zero point zero. I was reading what all you were saying I would have to do and finally came back across the part where you said I posted my CC at 2.5. Forgive me please. That is wrong. It is at 0 basically. So please...let's do this again:

    Test Results:

    FC - 2.5 (This is on my "Basic 5 Test Kit" that I bought at a hardware store. It says 2.0 -3.0 is "Ideal"
    CC - 0.0 (Using the same test kit as above because my k2006 test kit came with a empty R-0870 DPD Powder.I have ordered in another one.
    pH - 7.4 (k2006)
    TA - 110 (k2006)
    CH - 120 (in a rubber pool this should not matter at all right?) (k-2006)
    CYA - 50 (k2006)
    Borates - 40??? (need to confirm with a test kit)

    I hope this clarification puts me back on a ok list for pool fun for this holiday weekend! Sorry for posting my results wrong on my "literally" first post.

    Here is where I think I'm at and where I want to go:
    I feel like I need to get my FC up to the 5.0 area since I expect to have a CYA of 70 soon.
    I want to get the pH up to 7.6 from 7.4 but I have read that will happen anyways slowly due to my high TA so I'm taking no action there for now. 7.4 is "OK" anyways just not perfect.
    I expect to add more Cyanuric Acid to get it to what I think it should be based on reading being about 70.
    That leaves how do I reduce my TA without messing up all of the other factors.
    Lastly is the Borates. I think I'm at 40 but I can't tell for sure. I need a good tester. I've looked around and hear the Insta is the best one but I can't find it anywhere.

    I also have to admit I love all of this tweaking to get the good results. I love my pool and would already buy another! I hope they keep getting bigger and better over the years. This TFP methodology is awesome too! I'm learning so much, so fast but the best part are the results. My pool's water isn't even near perfect yet and it is already gorgeous! I keep debris out of it. The surface is flawless. The water is crystal clear. I'm nearly ashamed to be so thrilled over such a cheap little pool but it fills a huge void I had of always wanting a pool when I was a kid. Now I have one and I'm going to take great care of it. Thanks all for your help. Especially you Richard320!

  5. Back To Top    #5
    Casey's Avatar
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    Re: First timer... Trying the TFP method. Just looking for a little direction.

    Your pH is fine. I don't know why you'd want to raise it. That goes along with your TA. Leave it be. If it's not driving your pH up, leave it. Why do you want to mess with it?

    You can get Borate test strips at TFtestkit.net.

    If you're not getting a SWG, you need to leave the CYA alone. Keep your FC between 4ppm-6ppm.

    Capeash?

    If you want to tweak anything, tweak your signature up in settings and let us know what kind of pool you have, along with your equipment.
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

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    Re: First timer... Trying the TFP method. Just looking for a little direction.

    Doh! I do have a SWG. I made my sig and then forgot to set it. Doing it now...

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    Re: First timer... Trying the TFP method. Just looking for a little direction.

    Signature test and some questions...


    When they ask me what kind of pool I have an mine is the big rubber inflatable ring type, what is my proper answer? Rubber is never an option. Do I say it is Vinyl?.

    This page: http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...rine-generator suggests for salt water pools:

    To summarize:
    FC 3-5 ppm
    PH 7.5-7.8
    TA 60-80
    CH
    50-300 for vinyl
    220-320 for fiberglass
    250-350 for plaster

    CYA 70-80
    Salt 200-400 ppm ABOVE recommended optimum level
    Borates 30-50 ppm (optional)

    That is part of why I thought I need to raise my FC, PH and CYA. At the same time, I need to lower my TA.
    I ran out of time this morning. I have to go to work. CYA!
    5.455K Gal, AG Inflatable Ring Pool, Type B cartridge filter in a Intex model T633 2,500 GPH pump, Installed 09/2013, SWG.

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    Re: First timer... Trying the TFP method. Just looking for a little direction.

    Bump!

    My signature seems to work now! Is it right? How can it be improved to meet this forums standards? What kind of pool is it if it is rubber? Is that good enough to say that it is rubber? Remove the brand name? How about the pump?
    Here come the better questions:
    Based on the fact this is little pool being 5455 gal and has a SWG and the link above shows the FC should be 3-5 ppm, what should my fc be if my TA is 70. It isn't 70 right now. It is 110 right now but I just added acid to bring down the PH so I can begin to aerating the water.

    I read "somewhere that the order of things to get in order first as far as water goes is basically FC, TA, PH, CYA. Is that much correct if the pool is close to already being pretty good?

    I would think the best time to test water would be at dusk. I would think it would give the truest FC level pre-running the swg. I have seen some suggest to run the SWG during the day and others think at dusk so the chlorine has a chance to fight before the sun eats it up the next day. You say?

    I thought I needed extra FC since my CYA is right now higher than suggested. I want 70 but have 80 at least. I added some Clorox tonight and some acid. Tomorrow will be a new day of testing! Have a fun and safe holiday weekend everyone!
    5.455K Gal, AG Inflatable Ring Pool, Type B cartridge filter in a Intex model T633 2,500 GPH pump, Installed 09/2013, SWG.

  9. Back To Top    #9
    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: First timer... Trying the TFP method. Just looking for a little direction.

    Your FC level is based on your CYA level - not TA.
    Your signature is fine - I'd change it to "Inflatable Ring" pool.

    Always adjust PH first. To adjust PH, you must know your current TA. Other than that, TA is not too concerning, even when you have an SWG it's totally manageable.
    I'd run the SWG at night. And a little at the like 12-2 to offset the UV loss.

    Go back to Pool School and read Water balance for SWGs. A CYA of 70 is fine, so is 80. The key to a trouble free pool is maintain the FC according to the CYA/Chlorine chart and your pool won't turn green. Our methods utilize proper testing, and then knowing what to do with those test results...
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: First timer... Trying the TFP method. Just looking for a little direction.

    You say to adjust pH first but to bring down my TA the pool calculator says:

    "To lower TA you reduce pH to 7.0-7.2 with acid and then aerate to increase pH."

    That said, I reduced my pH to 7.0 which brought my TA down to 100. Now what? Wait and retest? Add more acid which brings down the pH and TA more until it hits 70 then Aerate?

    I think inflatable ring pool says it all. Thanks! By the way, I run my SWG at night for 3 hours per the SWG owners manual for water quantity. At best my FC has been 2.3 using the k2006 test kit in the morning. After I get my TA in order and the pH back up to 7.6 should I slam the pool until I can get a 5.0 FC reading in the morning and then keep it at least up to 3 from then on?
    5.455K Gal, AG Inflatable Ring Pool, Type B cartridge filter in a Intex model T633 2,500 GPH pump, Installed 09/2013, SWG.

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    Re: First timer... Trying the TFP method. Just looking for a little direction.

    DOH! I just found the answer. Here it is:

    You can lower TA by lowering the pH to between 7.0 and 7.2 with acid and then aerating the water to bring the pH back up. Aeration can be supplied by spa jets, waterfall, fountain, rain, kids splashing, compressed air, or by aiming a return up towards the surface so it breaks the surface of the water and causes bubbles. This process is then repeated until you reach the desired TA.

    So I need to splash about and bring the ph back up then add acid again. Rinse and repeat until I get it just right.
    5.455K Gal, AG Inflatable Ring Pool, Type B cartridge filter in a Intex model T633 2,500 GPH pump, Installed 09/2013, SWG.

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    Smykowski's Avatar
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    Re: First timer... Trying the TFP method. Just looking for a little direction.

    I agree with everyone else. Leave TA alone. As long as you keep your pH where it's supposed to be, TA will find an equilibrium. The TA range is the "loosest" range of all the TFP parameters, and yours is close enough.

    For now, just worry about your FC level and pH, and learning how the pool behaves every day.
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
    The most important article on this site - The ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

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