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Thread: Poolproof hexaborate and mule 20 borax

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    CCisotope's Avatar
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    Poolproof hexaborate and mule 20 borax

    Ok still learning to balance our pool water. I've been thinking about adding borates to the pool to help stabilize the pH and bleach additions. The pH continues to rise to the 8.2 level after 5 days and over a 3 week period I have used 6 bottles of 8.25% bleach (121oz)

    Todays readings were:

    Cl:<.3
    pH:8.2
    FC: 1
    CC:0
    TA: 80
    CH:250
    CYA: 20 (I finally read Jason's extended directions on testing and realized I should be reading the tube in the sunlight instead of the shade) in the shade its around 30

    I want to add the borates to help stabilize the pH and other reasons listed elsewhere on the board.

    Q: can I use the hexaborate instead of the mule 20 borax? I don't see hexaborate as an option on the calculator. The reason I want to use the hexaborate is time and cost. It's cheaper to buy the hexaborate instead of the 10 plus boxes of borax and 4 plus bottles of muratic acid that will be needed to balance things out.
    IG Gunite 30k gallons, custom WetEdge finish with glass beads, spa, Pentair 520sq. ft. Cartridge Filter, Pentair 3HP intelliflow V.S pump, Pentair 400K BTU Heater Master Temp, Pentair 2HP Whisperflo- Model WF-28, Silencer Air Blower 1.5 HP, Pentair Boost Rite Universal Booster Pump, Rainbow 320, Easy Touch 8, My pool build:http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...ypress-TX-Pics

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Poolproof hexaborate and mule 20 borax

    Borates have nothing to do with the amount of chlorine required. The only real tangible reason to add borates is for pH rise ... the other reasons I think are often overstated.

    I think you should be spending you time working on balancing your pool and maintaining it properly before considering borates. Clearly your FC is too low, so there is something about your testing and adjusting process that is not working. Borates are not a magic potion.
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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Poolproof hexaborate and mule 20 borax

    How about boric acid, that will be just as easy and probably quite a bit less expensive. Poolproof hexaborate has less than 50% active ingredients, which seems less than ideal. If I read their label correctly 1 gallon of Poolproof hexaborate is roughly equivalent to 5 lbs of boric acid. Poolproof hexaborate costs about $44/gallon, while 5 lbs of boric acid is roughly $14.
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    CCisotope's Avatar
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    Re: Poolproof hexaborate and mule 20 borax

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    Borates have nothing to do with the amount of chlorine required. The only real tangible reason to add borates is for pH rise ... the other reasons I think are often overstated.

    I think you should be spending you time working on balancing your pool and maintaining it properly before considering borates. Clearly your FC is too low, so there is something about your testing and adjusting process that is not working. Borates are not a magic potion.
    Jason, I have been working on balancing the water. I just don't understand how the pH can go from 7.5 to 8.2 in 4days...when nothing was added and the only thing running was the pump. The waterfall wasn't running.

    Readings on May 16 was:
    pH 7.2
    Cl
    FC. 6
    CC 0
    TA 80
    CH 250
    CYA 30

    Is this normal to see fluctuations like this in 4 days?.... The pool is about 1 1/2 months old.

    Another point to make is that the hubby uses the android app called pool pal and I use the poolmath calculator. The output values between the 2 calculators vary and the CSI numbers between the 2 are very different. His app is saying the water is balanced poolmath says we're not balanced... I have to admit this is getting a bit confusing for me and not sure which calculator is giving the correct values.
    IG Gunite 30k gallons, custom WetEdge finish with glass beads, spa, Pentair 520sq. ft. Cartridge Filter, Pentair 3HP intelliflow V.S pump, Pentair 400K BTU Heater Master Temp, Pentair 2HP Whisperflo- Model WF-28, Silencer Air Blower 1.5 HP, Pentair Boost Rite Universal Booster Pump, Rainbow 320, Easy Touch 8, My pool build:http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...ypress-TX-Pics

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    Re: Poolproof hexaborate and mule 20 borax

    Fresh plaster will raise the PH, TA, and CH levels rapidly at first and then more slowly for up to a year.

    PoolMath has been extensively tested and we haven't found any errors in it in a long time. If another calculator disagrees then the other calculator is almost certainly wrong.
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Poolproof hexaborate and mule 20 borax

    Pool Pal was developed by a member here, I think based on PoolMath ... I would trust PoolMath above all else though. Of course there could be something different in one of the inputs resulting in a different CSI (which BTW you usually can ignore completely).

    My point about balancing was really the fact that you FC is too low. How are you chlorinating? I see a Rainbow listed in your equipment.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    CCisotope's Avatar
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    Re: Poolproof hexaborate and mule 20 borax

    First 2 weeks after the fill the PB filled with pucks. I supplemented with bleach at the same time because Cl levels were still a bit low with the pucks. I only use bleach now along with baking soda. I have added CYA to help stabilize the Cl. But it still seems to be burning off quickly. I've used over 6 bottles of 8.25% bleach(121oz each bottle) in the last month..

    I've been monitoring the CSI number because it is a new pool and thought it was somewhat important along with CH levels since it is new plaster.
    IG Gunite 30k gallons, custom WetEdge finish with glass beads, spa, Pentair 520sq. ft. Cartridge Filter, Pentair 3HP intelliflow V.S pump, Pentair 400K BTU Heater Master Temp, Pentair 2HP Whisperflo- Model WF-28, Silencer Air Blower 1.5 HP, Pentair Boost Rite Universal Booster Pump, Rainbow 320, Easy Touch 8, My pool build:http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...ypress-TX-Pics

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Poolproof hexaborate and mule 20 borax

    In TX, I would think you want your CYA up between 40-50ppm and not below 30ppm as you are reporting. That will help protect your FC considerably.
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    CCisotope's Avatar
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    Re: Poolproof hexaborate and mule 20 borax

    Thanks Jason, I keep telling hubby we need to add more cya but he seems to think its okay according to his numbers. I think he gets worried about having a high CYA and then having to drain the pool.

    So what I am learning...wait about a year for the plaster to full cure and then see if pH still fluctuates. If pH still fluctuates then consider adding borates to pool to help stabilize. Does this sound like a good plan?
    IG Gunite 30k gallons, custom WetEdge finish with glass beads, spa, Pentair 520sq. ft. Cartridge Filter, Pentair 3HP intelliflow V.S pump, Pentair 400K BTU Heater Master Temp, Pentair 2HP Whisperflo- Model WF-28, Silencer Air Blower 1.5 HP, Pentair Boost Rite Universal Booster Pump, Rainbow 320, Easy Touch 8, My pool build:http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...ypress-TX-Pics

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Poolproof hexaborate and mule 20 borax

    That does sound like a good plan.

    Just keep adding acid as required to keep the pH in the 7s. And be sure to keep adding bleach to keep the FC in range ... you really should raise the CYA above 40ppm. It can not get higher if you are not using trichor/dichlor chlorine products, so there is no concern.
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    Re: Poolproof hexaborate and mule 20 borax

    I average 2gal (121oz bottles) of bleach a week (more in summer)

    Don't think 6 in a month is high?

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Poolproof hexaborate and mule 20 borax

    Quote Originally Posted by DFW View Post
    I average 2gal (121oz bottles) of bleach a week (more in summer)

    Don't think 6 in a month is high?
    No. I use about 2 gallons (128 oz) of 12.5% per week in the summer. More when it gets a lot of swimmers. My pool is half the size of yours.
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    Re: Poolproof hexaborate and mule 20 borax

    I've found that new plaster can really drive pH up quickly - mine is 1+ month old and I add 2-3 cups of MA every couple of days now but pH "bounced" around a lot for the first few weeks
    15K, IG, Sunstone Pearl (pebble) finish, Pentair EasyTouch 8 control system, Pentair IntelliFlo VS pump, Pentair IC 40 SWG, Pentair CC200 Cartridge filter, solar heating - 4th time pool owner

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