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Thread: When the filter turns on, DE cloud blows out!!?!??!?!?!

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    When the filter turns on, DE cloud blows out!!?!??!?!?!

    Just noticed this over the past 1-2 weeks:

    When I turn on the pool filter (6 y.o. Pentair DE thingy) a cloud of DE blows out into the pool from the returns. It is a 2-4 second cloud accompanied by alota air bubbles too. Then, it all goes away.

    I've looked for leaks and can't find any.

    I think I see more air in the pump clear big cap thing that you open to get all the big leaves and stuff out of the strainer. Can't say for sure, as there always seems to be a little bit of air trapped at the top of that clear plastic dome, but maybe more air lately?

    Any suggestions?
    Thank you in advance for your help.

    Noctiss

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: When the filter turns on, DE cloud blows out!!?!??!?!?!

    Are you sure it's DE too and not just air bubbles?

    What you describe I have experienced with my cartridge filter from time to time. It's a suction side air leak. One of your connections is sucking air, which is why you see air in that cap. Is your plumbing regular hoses with clamps? My clamps are tightened with a screw driver. Also, where is your water line in relation to your skimmer? I've notice that more air goes in the clear cap area if the water line is lower in the skimmer, for some reason. So put about another inch of water in see if that helps. So check all your connections. Also there is a drain valve at the bottom of that pump basket with the clear cap, sometimes that comes lose and air can go thru there. Someone once told me if you turn the pump off and look for drips you'll know where the air leak is but that hasn't worked for me.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: When the filter turns on, DE cloud blows out!!?!??!?!?!

    i'm pretty sure it is DE because i've noticed a buildup of DE-like sediment in the deep end after the pump and pool have been off/not swimmed in for a day or 2.

    i too think it is a connection sucking in more air, but i haven't found it yet.

    i don't know why a connection sucking in air would result in DE blowing out?

    thank you for your input

    bob
    Thank you in advance for your help.

    Noctiss

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: When the filter turns on, DE cloud blows out!!?!??!?!?!

    Sorry wish I could help you there.....
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: When the filter turns on, DE cloud blows out!!?!??!?!?!

    From my experience with DE Pentair filter, b/4 turning the filter back on, I switch the multi-port valve to rinse for 1-2 minutes after backwash cycle. Stop pump again & switch back to filter. Seems to help. For the air bubbles in the filter basket, you may have an object stuck under the rubber gasket. Try removing the gasket and rinsing with water. You may need to replace the rubber gasket if it old (stretched out).

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    Re: When the filter turns on, DE cloud blows out!!?!??!?!?!

    I have the same issue as pairofdocs yet I use a Hayward Filter. Anyone resolve/diagnose this issue yet?
    -400 sq ft ingroung Fiji (straight back kidney) ~ 13,500 gallons - Vinyl Liner - 3 to 6 Feet
    -Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump
    -Hayward Perflex DE Filter EC65A
    -Hayward H 250 Heater

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    Re: When the filter turns on, DE cloud blows out!!?!??!?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Craig
    I have the same issue as pairofdocs yet I use a Hayward Filter. Anyone resolve/diagnose this issue yet?
    is yours blowing out a brief episode of DE at the beginning too?

    i can't say i've got a cure yet.

    I'm not convinced that the bubbles in the pump units big clear plastic dome cover are in anyway connected to the DE dust blowout - not sure if it is a coincidence or a connection...

    nice to know i'm not the only one, yet wish it was none of us.
    Thank you in advance for your help.

    Noctiss

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    Re: When the filter turns on, DE cloud blows out!!?!??!?!?!

    Bob (paradox :P - good to see you over here 8) ) and Craig, what you have is a small leak somewhere in the filter itself or the multiport. I would check the multiport internals first (if only because it's easier than opening the filter to check the grids and standpipe o-ring). If the problem is only when the pump first comes on it indicates a small leak/ bypass that quickly gets sealed by the De in the filter. If it's not the multi, you'll have to open the filter and inspect the o-ring on the standpipe (to see if it's pinched or missing), where the grids connect to the manifold (to make sure that the fabric is up into the manifold), the manifold itself (for cracks or broken connections from the grids) and finally the grids themselves for small holes or tears.

    If you can find any of the things I mentioned, you may have to replace the part in question or I may be able to tell you how to patch it.

    Good luck with your investigations!
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    Re: When the filter turns on, DE cloud blows out!!?!??!?!?!

    Waste - thanks for the reply. you always have good answers.

    Now for my continual novice questions:

    The multiport - that is the big handle thing that I turn to 'filter' or 'backwash' or 'rinse' right? Held down with 10-15 screws i believe. If this is it, I feel like i'm opening up something that I don't know what it should normally look like inside. Therefore, I'd have trouble diagnosing a problem in the multiport.

    Waste - Can you elaborate about what red flags i should look for in the multiport please?

    I've never opened up the multiport or the big filter canister.

    As for an update on my situation with the DE cloud. It has never been bigger than today, the hottest day of the year, the nicest pool day, the warmest pool, and I clouded the pool this time when I walked out to turn on the filter for a little while in advance of swimming just to get the jandy rayvac thing to drive around and cleanup the bottom before we all went in.

    The jandy rayvac has this plastic mesh cylinder(not part of the rayvac itself, but part of the pump/filter/PVC piping outside of the pool) that acts as a prefilter. The plastic mesh cylinder is about 8 inches tall by 5 inches diameter and it is connected to large PVC pipes nearby to the pump. I found this prefilter to be clogged with DE today - admittedly, I hadn't looked at it in over one week. So, I hosed it off and made it clean again. Then i turned on the pool filter and that is when the world's largest DE cloud came out!

    So, what i learned is that the prefilter plastic cylinder thing had been helping to diminish the size of my DE cloud recently. I think that this finding may be helpful in diagnosing where the problem of a DE leak stems from, but I don't know how to use this clue.

    Waste - I'd love your thoughts (and anyone elses).

    I'm ready to open the multiport, but waiting to hear from waste about what is in there that is right/wrong.

    Bob
    Thank you in advance for your help.

    Noctiss

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    Re: When the filter turns on, DE cloud blows out!!?!??!?!?!

    Bob (sorry about keeping up the Paradox bit, but I can't help myself - though hopefully I can help you )

    I'm thinking the multiport isn't the issue after reading your last post (if you want to open it - what you're looking for is the 'spider gasket' being warped or degraded in some area)

    I think you've got a tear on one (or more ) of your grids or the o-ring on the standpipe is gone (if you've never opened the filter, you didn't pinch it) or... the top assembly (manifold) has failed

    I think your best course of action is to take the filter apart and check all the components I've mentioned If you get in there and aren't sure what's going on, I should be here tomorrow PM and many others here know the same stuff

    Thank you for your faith in me, (I'll try to live up to it )

    I hope you can find and correct the problem quickly!!
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    Re: When the filter turns on, DE cloud blows out!!?!??!?!?!

    OK, i'm going for it. i will open the canister.

    but first, what is the standpipe?

    thanks again waste.

    Bob
    Thank you in advance for your help.

    Noctiss

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    Re: When the filter turns on, DE cloud blows out!!?!??!?!?!

    The standpipe is the ~2" pipe that the filter manifold 'sits' on - it's only supposed to have clean water pass through it
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    Re: When the filter turns on, DE cloud blows out!!?!??!?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by waste

    I think you've got a tear on one (or more ) of your grids or the o-ring on the standpipe is gone (if you've never opened the filter, you didn't pinch it) or... the top assembly (manifold) has failed
    First of all, i'd like to send a huge thank you to you, Waste, for taking the time to try to help me.

    I just went to pool school at my local racquetball/fitness club - the long time manager and i go way back and he showed me inside his filter canister, grids, cleaning, putting back together techniques.

    I'm going in.....wish me luck

    Thanks again waste.

    bob
    Thank you in advance for your help.

    Noctiss

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    Re: When the filter turns on, DE cloud blows out!!?!??!?!?!

    waste - you are exactly correct.

    all 7 of my pentair60 grids were blown out at the seams. just replaced them and will look forward to a cleaner pool!

    Thanks again to everyone for your input

    bob
    Thank you in advance for your help.

    Noctiss

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    Re: When the filter turns on, DE cloud blows out!!?!??!?!?!

    Bob, GLAD!! the problem appears to be solved! It sucks that all the grids were blown, but at least you should have a clean pool from now on

    If you have any more questions, you know where to go to get the answers

    Congrats on getting the issue resolved

    Ted
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    Re: When the filter turns on, DE cloud blows out!!?!??!?!?!

    shocked that all 7 were blown out - wonder why ALL of them?

    Waste - i see you are in central CT - I did my internship in Cheshire, CT!

    Bob
    Thank you in advance for your help.

    Noctiss

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    Re: When the filter turns on, DE cloud blows out!!?!??!?!?!

    Hi Bob (everyone drink! )

    I spend a lot of time in Cheshire - we've got ~ 100 pools there! A goodly % of our new installs are in Cheshire

    If you can tell me what the rips looked like and where they were (you had said the seams) I might be able to guess at a cause

    Again, glad you found and fixed the problem
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    Re: When the filter turns on, DE cloud blows out!!?!??!?!?!

    waste - as requested, a description of the rips:

    each and everyone is ripped right down the main long vertical seam. some of the rips extended to the top horizontal seam.

    any thoughts on cause?

    Bob

    ps - i don't get the 'everyone drink' comment
    Thank you in advance for your help.

    Noctiss

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    Re: When the filter turns on, DE cloud blows out!!?!??!?!?!

    Bob, sorry to be 'cryptic' on the drinking thing - I'll get to that in a moment

    First lets discuss the seam failure. The best i can come up with is that the stitching was 'less than 100%' and that the filter had been allowed to get so clogged that the weakest point was the stitching (I can not! be sure of this, as I've never seen your filter nor pool!), but if you had the filter up to ~35 psi before trying to backwash, the DE may have been so congested that the water moving backwards through it (on 'backwash') couldn't force the DE off of the grids... and something had to give

    As for the drinking - A beer drinking game I encountered in the early 80s was called "Hi Bob" and based on the old Bob Newhart show. The rules were simple, if you heard the name Bob used on the show, you drank a specified amount of beer - however, if someone on the show said "Hi Bob" you had to drink a double portion of beer (I surveyed 3 shows and the average # of 'having to drink' was ~ 35X) I don't know if it was the writers of the show that had this in mind, or if some drunk 'frat rat' cottoned onto it, but if it's late night and you're looking for a reason to drink more, turn on Nick At Night or TV Land and see if the Bob Newhart show is on (you can play a similar game watching 'Love Boat' reruns)

    (You don't earn a handle like 'waste' without knowing this stuff )
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    Re: When the filter turns on, DE cloud blows out!!?!??!?!?!

    well my handle should be 'wagon' in that case - get it?!?!?!?!

    anyway, my pressure is never at 35, usually b/t 10-20.

    I will say that i feel the reason is pure neglect. I learned my lesson on this one.

    I'm ashamed to admit it, but that canister hadn't been opened in 4-5 years!!!!! please, spare me the ridicule, i told you sos, etc. I will open and clean it yearly now. Overall, it was a fun process.

    I had vertical 3-4 foot tall cakes of DE bricks within it - i think that means alota old DE

    I feel that this is the reason why it blewup inside...

    bob
    Thank you in advance for your help.

    Noctiss

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