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Thread: High CYA, Leslies says to drain pool?

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    High CYA, Leslies says to drain pool?

    I have a 12,500 gl fiberglass in ground pool. I was having clouding and stain issues. Used AA and removed stain but water is still cloudy after several days. Tested water at Leslie's and they said no other option than to drain pool. I have been told to not drain a fiberglass pool so not sure what to do. I live in South Texas and we have been in a major drought however we did receive about 2" of rain 3 days ago. I assume our water table is quite low but don't know for sure. I am kind of at a loss of what to do and am looking for help. Here are my test results:
    FAC 2
    TAC 2
    CH 200
    CYA 300 (said it might be higher but can only test up to 300)
    TA 30
    pH 7.2
    Copper 0
    Iron 0
    TDS 600
    Pho 200

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    Re: High CYA, Leslies says to drain pool?

    I don't have anything to add other than it's a darn small world. Got a coworker who took me down to Castroville to go to San Antonio for a concert and meet his family (who live in Castroville). Nice little town.
    13,000 gallons w/ spa (in-ground) | Plaster pool surface
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    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: High CYA, Leslies says to drain pool?

    Was the testing at Leslie's using a drop based test or strips? Drops are more reliable, strip color based tests are terrible.

    IF you trust the results, you have to drain your pool. Do it in steps. Drain below the skimmer or to the returns is usually safe. Then refill. Repeat. You'll have to do this ALOT. Since you need to replace about 83% of your water to hit 50 CYA.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
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    Re: High CYA, Leslies says to drain pool?

    Before you start draining, it would be in your (and your pool's) best interest to go ahead and invest in the TF-100 with the XL option from http://TFtestkits.net

    With your own testing, you will know for sure what each of the levels are. Pool stores are notorious for getting chem levels wrong, especially the CYA.
    15'x48" 4500 gallon Intex pool, buried 1.5 ft. Pac-Fab Dynamo 3/4 hp pump. Hayward S180T sand filter, bought used. Taylor K-2006 test kit. Rocket mass heater based wood fired pool heater.

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    Re: High CYA, Leslies says to drain pool?

    It was a drop test and they did it twice so I hope they got it right. Since I will be removing and adding water how many cycles of remove/add will it take to replace the 83%?

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    Re: High CYA, Leslies says to drain pool?

    For what it's worth, Leslies nor anyone else can reliably test CYA over 100.

    I would personally drain and refill 1/3 to 1/2 of your pool each cycle until. You don't tell us your chlorinating method so keep draining until your CYA if 50 ppm.
    Dave S.
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    Re: High CYA, Leslies says to drain pool?

    I am using floaters with 3" trichlor tabs. I usually keep two full floaters with 4 tabs each in them at the same time as that is what Leslies told me to do. I shock using dichlor once a week and fresh n clear (every other week) as that is what I was told to do by leslies. I am beginning to get the feeling that their advice/instruction is not all that great.

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    Re: High CYA, Leslies says to drain pool?

    Welcome to the forum! I suggest you spend some time reading Pool School - start with the link in my signature. You will very quickly see why most of the Leslie's advice is outright wrong or at the very least misguided.
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
    The most important article on this site - The ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

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    Re: High CYA, Leslies says to drain pool?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eserna View Post
    I am using floaters with 3" trichlor tabs. I usually keep two full floaters with 4 tabs each in them at the same time as that is what Leslies told me to do. I shock using dichlor once a week and fresh n clear (every other week) as that is what I was told to do by leslies. I am beginning to get the feeling that their advice/instruction is not all that great.
    Understanding the relationship between CYA and free chlorine is an eye opener. Then when you see that doing what Leslie's has been telling you to do got your CYA up over 300...
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: High CYA, Leslies says to drain pool?

    First order of business after ordering your tf-100 testkit-- stop with the trichlor tabs and dichlor shock!!! They are only adding to your cya problem! Buy a stockpile of at least 8.25% bleach. Your local Walmart's Great Value bleach is generally a pretty good buy.
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    Re: High CYA, Leslies says to drain pool?

    You've spent way more money than you needed to following Leslie's self serving advice.

    You absolutely NEED to order the TF - 100 test kit if you haven't already.

    Once you've done that, start reading pool school.

    In the meantime, you need to partially drain and refill your pool, several times.
    8,000 gallon, in ground, fiberglass pool with a cartridge filter.

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    Re: High CYA, Leslies says to drain pool?

    If I convert to liquid chlorine/bleach, how much do I use for my size pool, how often and how do I add the liquid? If I go with liquid bleach will I have to add anything else, stabilizer, etc.

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    Re: High CYA, Leslies says to drain pool?

    There is no real "conversion". You are already using a stabilized form of chlorine, you just need to use sodium hypochlorite (bleach) instead.

    At the top of every page here there is a link to PoolMath. Using that, you can determine how much bleach to use for each dose.
    15'x48" 4500 gallon Intex pool, buried 1.5 ft. Pac-Fab Dynamo 3/4 hp pump. Hayward S180T sand filter, bought used. Taylor K-2006 test kit. Rocket mass heater based wood fired pool heater.

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    Re: High CYA, Leslies says to drain pool?

    Still not clear on what is the best method of applying the liquid chlorine into the pool. Do I pour straight from the jug? I plan on starting the drain/fill process tonight. Should I take the floaters out and not put chlorine in until after I am done with the drain/fill process or will that promote algae? Am I safe to wait until the process is over and then add chlorine?

    Thanks for all of your help.

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    Re: High CYA, Leslies says to drain pool?

    Best method of dosing your pool with liquid forms of chlorine is pour slowly in front of a running return.

    Yes take the floaters out. Starting tomorrow, use bleach, even while you are doing the drain/fill cycles.
    15'x48" 4500 gallon Intex pool, buried 1.5 ft. Pac-Fab Dynamo 3/4 hp pump. Hayward S180T sand filter, bought used. Taylor K-2006 test kit. Rocket mass heater based wood fired pool heater.

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    Re: High CYA, Leslies says to drain pool?

    Quote Originally Posted by JVTrain View Post
    Understanding the relationship between CYA and free chlorine is an eye opener. Then when you see that doing what Leslie's has been telling you to do got your CYA up over 300...
    ....not to mention emptied his wallet out a bit, eh?
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    Re: High CYA, Leslies says to drain pool?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eserna View Post
    Still not clear on what is the best method of applying the liquid chlorine into the pool. Do I pour straight from the jug? I plan on starting the drain/fill process tonight. Should I take the floaters out and not put chlorine in until after I am done with the drain/fill process or will that promote algae? Am I safe to wait until the process is over and then add chlorine?

    Thanks for all of your help.
    It should be clear that your CYA levels are astronimical because you keep adding it in the form of trichlor and dichlor. The CYA builds up and your forced to drain to lower the levels. That wont happen with liquid chlorine/bleach.

    Please read the following information that I read myself a while back. I bookmarked it because the information is so clear and concise and it makes you wonder why the h' anyone uses "pucks" at all. Hope it helps you realize the harm of using those forms of chlorine.

    The high CYA is completely understandable because the Dichlor increases both chlorine and CYA. In fact, Trichlor tabs/pucks (such as those that are probably used in your inline chlorinator) also increase CYA, though a little more slowly. The following are chemical facts that are independent of concentration of product or of pool size:

    For every 10 ppm Free Chlorine (FC) added by Trichlor, it also increases Cyanuric Acid (CYA) by 6 ppm.
    For every 10 ppm FC added by Dichlor, it also increases CYA by 9 ppm.
    For every 10 ppm FC added by Cal-Hypo, it also increases Calcium Hardness (CH) by at least 7 ppm.

    So even with a 2 ppm FC per day chlorine usage, if you use only Trichlor pucks/tabs your CYA will increase by 36 ppm per month if there is no water dilution. Dichlor increases the CYA 50% faster. This is why you should use mostly unstabilized chlorine, usually chlorinating liquid or bleach, as your primary chlorine source. The downside is that you need to add it every day or two which is why most pool services don't use it (though some do by adding a lot and then come back a week later to add a lot again).

    Higher CYA levels will lower the active chlorine level unless you proportionately raise the FC level. The active chlorine level that kills bacteria and prevents algae growth is roughly proportional to the FC/CYA ratio. So in many pools when the CYA level gets high and the FC target isn't changed, algae can grow faster than chlorine can kill it and the water turns dull then cloudy and then a full-fledged algae bloom, or it just shows algae right away, depending on species. If you don't want to prevent this by managing the CYA level using unstabilized chlorine or massively diluting the water, then you can use an algaecide or phosphate remover at extra cost.

    In my 16,000 gallon pool, I use only 12.5% chlorinating liquid and some acid and it costs me only $15 per month though my chlorine usage is low at around 1 ppm FC per day due to a mostly opqaue electric safety cover (the pool is used every day for an hour or so).

    Author: chem geek
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    http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/in...ct#entry156441
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    Re: High CYA, Leslies says to drain pool?

    OK, that is making sense now. How much liquid bleach do I add during the drain/fill process?

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    Re: High CYA, Leslies says to drain pool?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eserna View Post
    OK, that is making sense now. How much liquid bleach do I add during the drain/fill process?
    I wouldn't even know what to answer on this one...

    Other than with that high of CYA (if that's what it actually is) there's no way to add enough chlorine to bring up to maintenance level, much less a shock/SLAM level.

    1. Get a proper test kit ordered. Most people around here including me recommend the TF-100 from tftestkits.com, direct link in my signature. "Free" testing from the pool is only going to confuse and is inaccurate.
    2. While you're waiting, I would partial drain and refill a few times. I'm not sure any amount of chlorine is going to help until that CYA is below 100.
    3. You won't truly know what your CYA is until you get a proper test kit.

    If any experts disagree and have a recommendation for adding any bleach at this point... please chime in.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: High CYA, Leslies says to drain pool?

    I had the same problem last week with they high CYA (>100). I got the Taylor test kit and verified the results. I drained over 1/2 my pool and re-filled (this was hard to swallow due to all the problem we had with our pool build). I had to empty and re-fill the pool 5 other times due to builder issues.
    I have the chlorine tabs and shock that the pool store sold me but that is a loss for me too. In the long run I will be better off. Maybe I can sell the rest to someone who insists on using them.

    Now that it is re-filled my CYA is 35 and I am dialed in.
    It is a big relief now that it is done. There is no other way around it.
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