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Thread: DE

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    DE

    Why does a given community stipulate that backwashed DE goes to a separation tank and not to their sewers? Can I just waste the backwashed DE onto my property? Isn't DE biodegradable?

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    Re: DE

    That would be a great question to ask community leaders. DE or Diatomaceous Earth is already present in the ground, isn't toxic, or harmful to small animals. So I have no idea why that stipulation exists in your community. I would assume false or misinformation is what led to this being addressed from a disgruntled neighbor.
    IG Vinyl - 18x36 - 21,800 gal. // Hayward C17502 Filter
    1.5 HP Mustang Single Speed Pump
    notes: SE Wisconsin Pool / No main drain in pool / Dolphin Advantage Cleaner

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    Re: DE

    Pool filter DE is heat treated and is known to be carcinogenic if inhaled. When suspended in water it obviously can't be inhaled but that's still likely why it can't be put in the sewers. Or they are afraid it will clog things up.

    DE is silica which is, for all intents and purposes, rock - which is not biodegradable.
    22,000 gallon in-ground kidney-ish shape: 1 HP pump and Triton TR60 sand filter. NEW: Dolphin Nautilus robot! :)

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    steveg_nh's Avatar
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    Re: DE

    Mine just flushes into the woods. No regulations about it in my town. Good question though, and one I'm curious to know the answer to.
    24'x40' 25k gal Imperial Mountain Pond IGP, full 28 mil VynAll Ocean Breakers liner. All Hayward system: 140k BTU HeatPro heat pump, 3/4HP single speed TriStar 2" Pump, DE6020 filter, AquaPlus Automation/Salt Chlorination, remote controls, ColorLogic 4.0 lighting. Polaris 280 w/PB4-60 BP. TF100 & K1766 test kits. Rinox Palazzo pavers and Spherik coping. Pool installed 9/2013, project completed 6/16/14.

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: DE

    It can clog pipes. If the community is on a septic tank, it can load it up with solids. And it's not biodegradable - it's basically petrified algae; Rock-like. It was a few million years old when they bagged it up to sell you. If it hasn't rotted by now, it won't. And it's an inhalation hazard when it's dry.

    If you backwash onto your yard, it could conceivably form a noticeable white crust, or pose an inhalation hazard when it dries.

    I use cellulose DE replacement, which is biodegradable, and I backwash onto my lawn.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: DE

    Quote Originally Posted by js8390 View Post
    That would be a great question to ask community leaders. DE or Diatomaceous Earth is already present in the ground, isn't toxic, or harmful to small animals. So I have no idea why that stipulation exists in your community. I would assume false or misinformation is what led to this being addressed from a disgruntled neighbor.
    You are correct that normal Diatomaceous Earth is mostly safe but pool DE is heat treated which transforms it into crystalline silica which causes silicosis and cancer when inhaled in moderate quantities.

    https://www.osha.gov/dsg/topics/silicacrystalline/
    22,000 gallon in-ground kidney-ish shape: 1 HP pump and Triton TR60 sand filter. NEW: Dolphin Nautilus robot! :)

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    Re: DE

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320 View Post
    I use cellulose DE replacement, which is biodegradable, and I backwash onto my lawn.
    Cellulose DE replacement? Interesting. Something else to read up on. Same filtering qualities as regular DE?
    24'x40' 25k gal Imperial Mountain Pond IGP, full 28 mil VynAll Ocean Breakers liner. All Hayward system: 140k BTU HeatPro heat pump, 3/4HP single speed TriStar 2" Pump, DE6020 filter, AquaPlus Automation/Salt Chlorination, remote controls, ColorLogic 4.0 lighting. Polaris 280 w/PB4-60 BP. TF100 & K1766 test kits. Rinox Palazzo pavers and Spherik coping. Pool installed 9/2013, project completed 6/16/14.

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    Re: DE

    I use cellulose fiber also, much safer than DE and you have to use a lot less. I use Purifiber, they claim it is non-toxic and completely biodegradable.
    22,000 gallon IG; plaster; 16x32 Rectangular, Depth 3.5-8Ft.
    Hayward Pro-Grid DE Filter - 48sqft w/ cellulose fiber & Hayward Energy Flo RS Pump - .75HP (1.85SF)
    Very old 312sqft solar system, TFT-100 Kit with Speedstir

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    Re: DE

    That's crazy. Just looked that stuff up. I use 7.5 LBS of DE. For my filter they say only 36 oz. switching probably requires a disassembly of filter to get all old de out though I bet.
    24'x40' 25k gal Imperial Mountain Pond IGP, full 28 mil VynAll Ocean Breakers liner. All Hayward system: 140k BTU HeatPro heat pump, 3/4HP single speed TriStar 2" Pump, DE6020 filter, AquaPlus Automation/Salt Chlorination, remote controls, ColorLogic 4.0 lighting. Polaris 280 w/PB4-60 BP. TF100 & K1766 test kits. Rinox Palazzo pavers and Spherik coping. Pool installed 9/2013, project completed 6/16/14.

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    Surf Hawk's Avatar
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    Re: DE

    Yeah I dis-assembled, it really is the best way to make a clean change. My pressure was rising 10psi in just a few weeks before I opened it up and cleaned out all the old DE in there. Once I cleaned those grids and switched to purifiber, I get a very steady rise from 20 to 22 to psi over about 2 months.
    22,000 gallon IG; plaster; 16x32 Rectangular, Depth 3.5-8Ft.
    Hayward Pro-Grid DE Filter - 48sqft w/ cellulose fiber & Hayward Energy Flo RS Pump - .75HP (1.85SF)
    Very old 312sqft solar system, TFT-100 Kit with Speedstir

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    Re: DE

    Quote Originally Posted by steveg_nh View Post
    That's crazy. Just looked that stuff up. I use 7.5 LBS of DE. For my filter they say only 36 oz. switching probably requires a disassembly of filter to get all old de out though I bet.
    Yes, you need to clean the filter out thoroughly. And the cellulose is really light and fluffy, so a huge bag weighs hardly anything. Volume-wise, they're probably close to the same amount to coat the screens. And I will tell you from personal experience, it filters really good, and when it hits 25% increase, you need to backwash now. Once it goes up 25%, it seems like it only takes a week to go up to 50%, and you will actually notice a decrease in flow.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    steveg_nh's Avatar
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    Re: DE

    Do you use the same stuff Richard?
    24'x40' 25k gal Imperial Mountain Pond IGP, full 28 mil VynAll Ocean Breakers liner. All Hayward system: 140k BTU HeatPro heat pump, 3/4HP single speed TriStar 2" Pump, DE6020 filter, AquaPlus Automation/Salt Chlorination, remote controls, ColorLogic 4.0 lighting. Polaris 280 w/PB4-60 BP. TF100 & K1766 test kits. Rinox Palazzo pavers and Spherik coping. Pool installed 9/2013, project completed 6/16/14.

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: DE

    Quote Originally Posted by steveg_nh View Post
    Do you use the same stuff Richard? I
    I use fiberclear, or whatever brand it is they sell at the local pool store.
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...may-be-correct
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: DE

    DE is heat treated which transforms it into crystalline silica which causes silicosis and cancer when inhaled in moderate quantities
    I'm not sure the link provided indicates "moderate" quantities.....it looked more to me like VERY high quantities. What are moderate quantities?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    steveg_nh's Avatar
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    Re: DE

    Very interesting. Should I post additional questions in your thread Richard or start my own if I want to explore converting?
    24'x40' 25k gal Imperial Mountain Pond IGP, full 28 mil VynAll Ocean Breakers liner. All Hayward system: 140k BTU HeatPro heat pump, 3/4HP single speed TriStar 2" Pump, DE6020 filter, AquaPlus Automation/Salt Chlorination, remote controls, ColorLogic 4.0 lighting. Polaris 280 w/PB4-60 BP. TF100 & K1766 test kits. Rinox Palazzo pavers and Spherik coping. Pool installed 9/2013, project completed 6/16/14.

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    Re: DE

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh View Post
    I'm not sure the link provided indicates "moderate" quantities.....it looked more to me like VERY high quantities. What are moderate quantities?
    I don't know... lol

    More than filling your DE filter a couple times a year and less than the guys cutting up concrete for a living without a mask?

    'Moderate' was just the first word that came to mind. I haven't really researched it because we don't interact with it enough to warrant the investigation. I guess I just wanted to clarify for js8390 that pool DE is not non-toxic like food grade DE so just be careful with it.
    22,000 gallon in-ground kidney-ish shape: 1 HP pump and Triton TR60 sand filter. NEW: Dolphin Nautilus robot! :)

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