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Thread: Stains keep coming back!

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    JenMichelle's Avatar
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    Stains keep coming back!

    I am a new pool owner (not a new set up, we bought a house with pool) and I have been stalking this site since before I opened the pool! So glad I found you guys! Here's my problem: I had my pool professionally "opened" on April 23. All was well until about 5 or six days after that I noticed my white stairs had brown discoloring and so did the liner. I did some research and did the Vit C tab test and it was definitely metal staining. I bought the Metal Magic and the sequestering agent and all stains magically disappeared within 18 hours. 5 days later they are slowing coming back! Before the first go round of staining my ph was a little out of whack, but that was it. I had my water tested by the pool store when I noticed the second round of stains forming and here's what I got:

    Free Chlorine 6.2
    Total Chlorine 6.2
    Combined 0
    Ph 7.4
    Hardness 42
    Alkalinity 135
    Cyanuric Acid 129
    Copper 0
    Iron 0

    I know my chlorine was high, that's because my pool guy told me to fill my automatic chlorinator up with the tabs and I have since stopped using it and just put the tab in the strainer basket. It seems to be in perfect range (per the cheapo testing strips, I am going to order a good kit you recommend). When I treated for stains I added 2lbs of metal magic and a bottle of the sequestering agent. I fill my pool with city water which tested 0 for Copper and Iron. Whatcha guys think? Why do they keep coming back?! Am I going to have to do the treatment every 5 days for the whole summer?
    24' x 52" AG / Hayward Sand Filter
    Hayward Power-Flo 2 Speed Pump
    TF100 test kit / Pool Rover Hybrid Robot
    St. Louis, MO *GO CARDINALS*

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Stains keep coming back!

    A couple thoughts...

    1) Your CYA is waaay too high. I know pool store tests are generally unreliable and tend to measure low, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if you're closer to 200. Using pucks to chlorinate just makes it worse.
    2) Do you have rust stains in the toilet tank or toilet bowl? If so, there's iron in your tap water, unless it goes through a softener.
    3) I would bet that your "professional" opening included copper-based algaecides, which is where the metal came from.
    4) Once the metal is in there, you either maintain sequestering agents or replace the water. I'd lean towards replacement, since CYA is so high. But without trustworthy test results, there's no way of knowing how high the CYA is, or how much water needs to be replaced.
    5) Before you do anything, you need a test kit.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Beens's Avatar
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    Re: Stains keep coming back!

    ^^^^ What he said. CYA 129 yikes! (Especially considering the test doesn't easily go over 100!) Test kit time! TF-100 is what I use.
    18' x 48" (42" water depth) Intex Metal Frame 6,700 Gallons
    Hayward Power-Flo LX 1.0 HP pump
    Hayward Pro Series S166T Sand Filter
    Original Intex Floating Skimmer

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    JenMichelle's Avatar
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    Re: Stains keep coming back!

    I know the pool store told me to drain 1/2 and refill because of the CYA but I wanted to get some advice first! I am going to order one of the test kits you guys recommend pronto.
    I don't see any rust stains on anything.
    What causes the CYA level to be so high? Is it because I was over chlorinating? I need to read more into what everybody on here does for chlorination. Thankfully it is chilly this week so I won't have any urges to swim until I figure this out! Do you think I should go ahead and drain (if so how much) while I'm waiting on my test kit? Thanks guys ��
    24' x 52" AG / Hayward Sand Filter
    Hayward Power-Flo 2 Speed Pump
    TF100 test kit / Pool Rover Hybrid Robot
    St. Louis, MO *GO CARDINALS*

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    Re: Stains keep coming back!

    Quote Originally Posted by JenMichelle View Post
    I know the pool store told me to drain 1/2 and refill because of the CYA but I wanted to get some advice first! I am going to order one of the test kits you guys recommend pronto.
    I don't see any rust stains on anything.
    What causes the CYA level to be so high? Is it because I was over chlorinating? I need to read more into what everybody on here does for chlorination. Thankfully it is chilly this week so I won't have any urges to swim until I figure this out! Do you think I should go ahead and drain (if so how much) while I'm waiting on my test kit? Thanks guys ��
    Click the pool school tab at the top of the screen. Take your time and I've found it helpful to read it over and over (once a day or once every cpl of days). This will help you get an idea of what does what.

    for quick answer, the pucks you are using to chlorinate have CYA in them, the more you use the solid chlorination products the higher that number will go, and the harder it will be to manage your pool. (you'll have to maintain a higher FC). Over 100 is really futile and you will be best served to just drain some of the water off and refill. There's a strong possibility that your staining is 100% due to other products that have been put in the water.

    Most here either use a Salt water chlorine generator, or liquid chlorine. as neither of these contain CYA or other things that mess with other aspects of the pool chemistry.

    I'm no expert, I just read and read and read. In fact I'm going to pool school tab myself right now. I'm a newbie to this as well.
    IG gunite/plaster pool/spa Started 1/17/14, Plastered 5/16/14
    Size: 12'-21'x39' free form, depth ranging from 4' to 7, attached 6 person spa with spillover.
    Equipment: Whisperflo 2hp pump, Pentair 30" sand filter, Pentair Mastertemp 400k BTU heater, 1hp Whisperflo for waterfalls, and a blower for spa floor

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    Casey's Avatar
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    Re: Stains keep coming back!

    Hello and welcome JenMichelle. You have just hit the jack pot of all jack pots when it comes to the best pool forums on the net! That's TFP. We have Pool School which you will need to read completely, in it's entirety, front to back, back to front, inside and out and upside down til you know it like the back of your hand. Sounds like a lot but it's not. It makes sense the more you read it.

    Your CYA/stabilizer is obscenely high because of your exclusive use of Trichlor puck which is stabilized. We use unscented bleach. I buy mine from WalMart at 8.25%.

    Purchase the TF100XL. You will not regret it. Once you get your CYA in line with 30-50ppm, we can assist any problems you may have with your pool from a big green mess to hazy water. It is imperative that you get the CYA down first and get the reliable test kit. That test kit will take you well within the next swimming season if you store it in a cool dark spot.

    As far as staining from metals... you'll either need a sequesterant weekly or a partial drain refill may fix the problem by lowering it.

    Any questions, just ask! We're here to help you enjoy a trouble free pool!
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

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    JenMichelle's Avatar
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    Re: Stains keep coming back!

    Ok, I will order the test kit now! Since my CYA is so high I guess I will go ahead and drain about 1/2 the pool today. I am going to stop using the tabs and figure out how to use the bleach because I really don't want to have to do this again once pool season is in full gear-I would rather get it right now! Do I drain with my small sump pump or can I just turn my filter to backwash or rinse? Does it hurt the liner while draining? What is the best way to drain? My backwash hose goes into a city drain so flooding is not a concern. Anything else I need to know while draining/filling back up while waiting on my test kit??
    24' x 52" AG / Hayward Sand Filter
    Hayward Power-Flo 2 Speed Pump
    TF100 test kit / Pool Rover Hybrid Robot
    St. Louis, MO *GO CARDINALS*

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    Casey's Avatar
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    Re: Stains keep coming back!

    Drain through your back wash since there is no concern with the city in that regard and drain down half til you can't drain anymore, under the return. Then refill. You never want to completely drain an above ground pool unless you're changing a liner. You may have to do 2 partial refills. Retest after filling the first refill and then do another if you're still high. You may need 3 drain refills because the CYA test only test up to 100ppm. So it's important to test each time after recirculating for a 1/2 or so.

    You can use Pool Calculator Instructions to determine how much bleach you'll need. Once you get aquainted with the TFPC, you'll learn your pool's needs and pool care will be so easy.
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

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    JenMichelle's Avatar
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    Re: Stains keep coming back!

    Test kit is on its way! I'm going to wait to drain until I can get an accurate "before" reading with the new test kit. It should be here in a few days. Thanks for everyone's help! I will be back to let you know what happens
    24' x 52" AG / Hayward Sand Filter
    Hayward Power-Flo 2 Speed Pump
    TF100 test kit / Pool Rover Hybrid Robot
    St. Louis, MO *GO CARDINALS*

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    Beens's Avatar
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    Re: Stains keep coming back!

    Congratulations on doing it the best way! You're starting out just right by ordering a test kit. Now you get to read and ask questions while you wait for the kit.

    Fun times ahead!
    18' x 48" (42" water depth) Intex Metal Frame 6,700 Gallons
    Hayward Power-Flo LX 1.0 HP pump
    Hayward Pro Series S166T Sand Filter
    Original Intex Floating Skimmer

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    Casey's Avatar
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    Re: Stains keep coming back!

    Congrats on ordering the test kit JenMichelle! Hope you got the TF100. You will not regret it and it's a good idea to want to test it to see how your test come out! If you get 100ppm for CYA reading, dilute pool water and tap water half and half and test it and double the results!
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

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    JenMichelle's Avatar
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    Re: Stains keep coming back!

    I DID get the TF 100 I hope it comes with instructions! Since I am not testing and doing the water change until I receive my test kit (should be here by Friday), should I still use the chlorine tablets to prevent any problems until then? I do have bottles of "shock" too, but once I refill I am DONE with all of those pool store chemicals (I have been reading Pool School all day). I know the tabs will prob keep raising cya but I just don't want any algae or any other problems until I drain and have something else to deal with besides stains and high cya when I am shopping for bleach where on the bottle does it tell you the % of strength? Will the bottles of shock raise my cya?
    24' x 52" AG / Hayward Sand Filter
    Hayward Power-Flo 2 Speed Pump
    TF100 test kit / Pool Rover Hybrid Robot
    St. Louis, MO *GO CARDINALS*

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    Re: Stains keep coming back!

    Liquid pool shock is just bleach in a higher concentration is all and it won't add any cya
    18x52 intex ultra frame pool 6981 gallons, 1 HP LL pump with 19 in sand filter,BBB method,borax 50ppm
    leslies DPD test kit + fas-dpd chlorine test kit + borates test strips
    thru wall skimmer,hard plumbed with 2 returns 1 1/2 sch 40 pvc
    1 large fountain 1 inch sch 40 pvc,shut off ball valves on all

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    JenMichelle's Avatar
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    Re: Stains keep coming back!

    Got it! Thanks! I have a few cases of it that the old owners left so I guess I will use what's left before I switch to regular ole beach I am so glad I found you all!
    24' x 52" AG / Hayward Sand Filter
    Hayward Power-Flo 2 Speed Pump
    TF100 test kit / Pool Rover Hybrid Robot
    St. Louis, MO *GO CARDINALS*

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    Beens's Avatar
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    Re: Stains keep coming back!

    On the regular bleach bottle it will have the strength in small print towards the bottom. It usually says the % of sodium hypochlorite and the % of "other ingredients".

    Just make sure you stick with the regular unscented kind. Most will be 8.25%

    Hopefully your test kit will come quickly and you can get started! Gotta figure out that CYA level for sure.
    18' x 48" (42" water depth) Intex Metal Frame 6,700 Gallons
    Hayward Power-Flo LX 1.0 HP pump
    Hayward Pro Series S166T Sand Filter
    Original Intex Floating Skimmer

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    Casey's Avatar
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    Re: Stains keep coming back!

    Even if your water does turn green, we can help you get it fixed in no time. To add bleach with that high CYA, you'll need a lot and it's just not worth it. If it were my pool, I'd start the drain/refill and by the time the kit was in, you could test to see if you need another drain/refill or not and treat according. You wouldn't be losing a lot of time.
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

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    JenMichelle's Avatar
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    Re: Stains keep coming back!

    Got my kit! Here are my results:

    FC: 9
    CC: 0
    TC: 9
    CYA: 140
    Ph: 7.5
    TA: 130

    I am draining now as much as I can (about 25%) and I will refill and test again I guess. Hopefully this will solve my cya problem and the staining problem
    24' x 52" AG / Hayward Sand Filter
    Hayward Power-Flo 2 Speed Pump
    TF100 test kit / Pool Rover Hybrid Robot
    St. Louis, MO *GO CARDINALS*

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    Casey's Avatar
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    Re: Stains keep coming back!

    You're on the right track! I'll fore warn you that you'll have to do a series of drain refills. Let us know when you get to 30-50 ppm CYA.
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

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    JenMichelle's Avatar
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    Re: Stains keep coming back!

    How far can I safely drain down the pool?
    24' x 52" AG / Hayward Sand Filter
    Hayward Power-Flo 2 Speed Pump
    TF100 test kit / Pool Rover Hybrid Robot
    St. Louis, MO *GO CARDINALS*

  20. Back To Top    #20
    Casey's Avatar
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    Re: Stains keep coming back!

    You could take it down a to a ft of water with a sump pump and refill it if you want! If you're going to do that, run your filter after fill up and check it, you may be right in range. You never want to totally drain an above ground pool unless you're changing the liner or removing the pool.
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

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