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Thread: lower ph during opening help? CC question

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    lower ph during opening help? CC question

    opened up my pool yesterday up here in upstate ny... water was looking pretty clear but alot of algea on the bottom

    I have a mesh cover so this is usual...

    Im testing with a t-100 or maybe it tf100... the taylor one that is nice and expensive.

    i shocked the heck out of it...

    Raised alk to 80 from 50

    brought my PH down to 7.6 last night from over 8 when i opened it... now about 24 hours later its running at 7.2-7.3. I think at some point i read its easier to get the water clear with the Ph on the low side... true or false? if im to raise it my plan is to use borax as that should raise the alk as well...if thats wrong, blame it on 6 months of pool chemistry rust

    Lastly, my FC is between .5 and 1. my CC is over 30 (i stopped after 60 drops)...... should i just keep pumping up my FC to 15 or so regardless of CC?

    The water is clearing very quickly....just want to keep it going and let that sand filter do its magic

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: lower ph during opening help? CC question

    If your CC is over 30 you're looking at a possible ammonia situation....

    What is your CYA level? What was it before you closed and what was it at opening?

    keep the PH to 7.2 area until you're done SLAMing.
    Borax will raise TA a very little bit.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    lower ph during opening help? CC question

    You most certainly have ammonia and your CYA level is prob zero. Check it to make sure. If you show CYA adjust FC for that SLAM level.
    Your going to have to keep your FC at SLAM level to get rid of the ammonia. SLAM level is 10 for zero CYA. If your CYA is zero add enough stabilizer to get to 20-30 ppm tops and adjust your SLAM level for the CYA level.
    Your going to go thru a lot of bleach to get rid of the ammonia. The ammonia will eat the chlorine very quickly so you'll need to test often like every 30 mins till your CC 's come down.
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Re: lower ph during opening help? CC question

    I haven't tested CYA yet, always waited until it cleared. It was 80 when I closed it if my memory is correct
    16x32 in-ground vinyl liner, 17,500 gallons, sand filter, 2 outlets, BBB method, 8+ hours of daily sun, hayward super pump

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: lower ph during opening help? CC question

    Go test, asap - if it's zero you probably have ammonia.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: lower ph during opening help? CC question

    ok ten four. I also assumed it was zero

    back to walmart for more bleach.

    Thanks -

    - - - Updated - - -

    its zero. confirmed
    16x32 in-ground vinyl liner, 17,500 gallons, sand filter, 2 outlets, BBB method, 8+ hours of daily sun, hayward super pump

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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    lower ph during opening help? CC question

    That's what I thought. Get some stabilizer if you don't have any at Walmart along with the bleach.
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Re: lower ph during opening help? CC question

    I thought that CYA's purpose was mainly to protect chlorine from being burned off from sun. Just because i want to learn whats going on being the scenes, how does the high CC combined with zero CYA equal ammonia presence? or maybe put another way, are we saying that CYA helps to prevent amonia in ways other than just protecting FC which prevents the ammonia generation...

    Thanks for your help.... FC going up. The walmart people think its really weird when i buy 15 gallons of bleach.
    16x32 in-ground vinyl liner, 17,500 gallons, sand filter, 2 outlets, BBB method, 8+ hours of daily sun, hayward super pump

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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    Re: lower ph during opening help? CC question

    There is a explanation on this by chemgeek. I'll have to look for it.
    Somehow over the winter the CYA gets converted to ammonia. I'm not even close to being a chemist.
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: lower ph during opening help? CC question

    Sometimes CYA vanishes over the winter. When that happens, the CYA has been broken down by soil bacteria into ammonia. Ammonia in the water tends to result in extremely high CC levels, which are rare otherwise. So CYA vanishing plus high CC almost invariably means ammonia.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    Re: lower ph during opening help? CC question

    Here's the thread if your interested. http://www.troublefreepool.com/showthread.php?t=8498
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Re: lower ph during opening help? CC question

    that's really pretty fascinating. no worries if you cant find it but would "enjoy" the read.

    The giant bathtub wins again
    Pool: 7
    Me:2
    Its an underdog story
    16x32 in-ground vinyl liner, 17,500 gallons, sand filter, 2 outlets, BBB method, 8+ hours of daily sun, hayward super pump

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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    Re: lower ph during opening help? CC question

    Look above I found it for ya.
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Re: lower ph during opening help? CC question

    got it... so the high PH plus the complete degradation of CYA was the main clue combined with the rapid conversion of FC to CC.

    So if i had 80, then i could have up to 24ppm of ammonia (going to dig up my ammonia fish tank tester)

    It it takes 30ppm of FC to get rid of 3 PPM of ammonia.... i have a long ways to go

    Should i just try to keep it at slam levels or should i try to strong arm this (neutralize) thing by raising it higher (like 30PPM FC)...or 7 gallons of bleach at a time... im not here during days so, i cant test in more than say 3 times per day
    16x32 in-ground vinyl liner, 17,500 gallons, sand filter, 2 outlets, BBB method, 8+ hours of daily sun, hayward super pump

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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    lower ph during opening help? CC question

    I wouldn't go a whole lot above the SLAM level for the CYA level. The CYA is a buffer also and takes the harshness away from the chlorine. Best thing to do is maintain the SLAM level or a little higher as long as you can. Do the best you can.
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Re: lower ph during opening help? CC question

    Thanks Jeff

    -Ben
    16x32 in-ground vinyl liner, 17,500 gallons, sand filter, 2 outlets, BBB method, 8+ hours of daily sun, hayward super pump

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: lower ph during opening help? CC question

    Consider replacing some of the water to lower the ammonia level, you'll end up using less chlorine. Do you have a source for 12.5%?

    Good luck, the harder you can hit it all at once the faster it will go and you'll use less chlorine. Like chlorine additions every 30 minutes testing the FC and adding more if you're aren't hitting shock level. Can take like 4 hours if you do it at once...
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: lower ph during opening help? CC question

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrstrk View Post
    I wouldn't go a whole lot above the SLAM level for the CYA level. The CYA is a buffer also and takes the harshness away from the chlorine. Best thing to do is maintain the SLAM level or a little higher as long as you can. Do the best you can.
    It went up to around 22 when i added what would usually raise it to 17. This morning it was 20, so ill see what it looks like at the end of the day.


    I have already replaced about 1/3 of the water so that is helping im sure too -
    16x32 in-ground vinyl liner, 17,500 gallons, sand filter, 2 outlets, BBB method, 8+ hours of daily sun, hayward super pump

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    Re: lower ph during opening help? CC question

    So right now FC is at 14, which was alot higher than I expected since i've been losing 5-8 ppm of FC per 12-18 hours the last 4 days. so i expected 7 or 8.


    cc is .5

    maybe we are leveling off here
    16x32 in-ground vinyl liner, 17,500 gallons, sand filter, 2 outlets, BBB method, 8+ hours of daily sun, hayward super pump

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    Casey's Avatar
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    Re: lower ph during opening help? CC question

    How does your water look?
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

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