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Thread: A&A In-floor Cleaner/VS Pump Settings

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    tucsontico's Avatar
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    Question A&A In-floor Cleaner/VS Pump Settings

    Did a full forum search for in-floor cleaner advice and it appears that most members would not install an in-floor cleaning system. Of course, I didn't find this website until AFTER I built my pool in Apr 2013! However, I really like the convenience of the system and, so far, it has kept my pool nicely clean with minimal effort (just a twice weekly brush and skim) from me. Since the pool is only 1 year old, I am still learning the finer points of my system. Like most folks, I want to run the system in the most efficient manner and take full advantage of the VS pump, etc..

    My in-floor system is an A&A 6 zone system with 3 pop-ups per zone. My pump is a 3hp Pentair VS 3050. The pop-ups are A&A Gamma 4 venturi powered cleaning heads and my pool depth runs from 3.5' to 5.5'. I currently run the pump at 2800 rpm (max rpm is 3450) while in the cleaning cycle–which gives me about 25 psi measured at the top of the filter canister. (The skimmer and wall returns are on a separate line and run only in the filtration cycle when the in-floor cleaner is off.) I also have an EcoSkim venturi-powered skimming system that allows me to draw full suction through the main drain and still keep the skimmer operating.

    My questions are:

    1. What is the minimum pressure (at the filter canister) I should look for to run the pop-ups effectively? (The current "flow rate" is about 50 GPM read at the return to the floor cleaner manifold. Unfortunately, there is no pressure gauge at the return to the cleaner manifold.)

    2. What nominal pressure should I look for during my filtration cycle? (Currently I run the filtration cycle pump at 1800 rpm which yields about 5-6 psi measured at the top of the filter canister.)

    3. How often should I check the gearing in the cleaner manifold for wear?

    Thanks in advance! BTW, I have completely embraced the TFPC chemistry recommendations and now have a sparkling clear pool at minimum cost!
    19,500 gal, 16' x 38' PebbleTec IG Pool, Built 4/2013; Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3050 3 HP Pump, Pentair Intellichlor IC40 SWG, Pentair IntellipH, Pentair 520 sq ft/150 GPM Cartridge Filter, A&A In-Floor Cleaner, Dolphin Nautilus Plus Robot (aka "Robbie"), Pentair EasyTouch Power Panel w/ Quick Touch 4 Remote Control, Autelis WiFi controller, Clear 12 mil Solar Cover on Presto SS Reel, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit.

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: A&A In-floor Cleaner/VS Pump Settings

    I think you are putting too much emphasis on pressure especially for #2. Pressure doesn't matter. What matters most is the lowest RPM that keeps your pool clean. The most efficient RPM is 1000 but it may not allow the skimmers to work well.

    For #1, I don't know if there is a minimum but you could just reduce the RPM until the cleaners don't work well.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    tucsontico's Avatar
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    Re: A&A In-floor Cleaner/VS Pump Settings

    Doctor mas985,

    Thanks for the input. I'm currently experimenting with pump speeds/pressures as you suggested. I've already backed the cleaner down to 2800 rpm from 3200 rpm and the filter cycle from 2500 to 1800 rpm. The chemistry is good and the pool looks sparkling clear.

    I thought there might be someone or a group of experts who've already done the same experimentation and had a good handle on the pump speeds already! Just trying not to reinvent the wheel.
    19,500 gal, 16' x 38' PebbleTec IG Pool, Built 4/2013; Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3050 3 HP Pump, Pentair Intellichlor IC40 SWG, Pentair IntellipH, Pentair 520 sq ft/150 GPM Cartridge Filter, A&A In-Floor Cleaner, Dolphin Nautilus Plus Robot (aka "Robbie"), Pentair EasyTouch Power Panel w/ Quick Touch 4 Remote Control, Autelis WiFi controller, Clear 12 mil Solar Cover on Presto SS Reel, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit.

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    Re: A&A In-floor Cleaner/VS Pump Settings

    Quote Originally Posted by tucsontico View Post
    Doctor mas985,

    Thanks for the input. I'm currently experimenting with pump speeds/pressures as you suggested. I've already backed the cleaner down to 2800 rpm from 3200 rpm and the filter cycle from 2500 to 1800 rpm. The chemistry is good and the pool looks sparkling clear.

    I thought there might be someone or a group of experts who've already done the same experimentation and had a good handle on the pump speeds already! Just trying not to reinvent the wheel.
    I have the exact same setup with g4v heads as we'll. My high speed runs at 2850 rpm for three hours per day. This gives me about 60gpm at the in floor valve. For 9 hours per day, I back it down to 1750 which gives me about 35gpm.

    It's a great system and the monthly energy costs are reasonable. Mine are about 30$ a month with 10 cent per kilowatt hour.
    28000 gallon IG pool, 3.5ft - 8ft deep, Stonescapes Tropics Blue Interior, Pentair Intellichlor SWG, Pentair Quad DE 100 filter, Pentair Intelliflo VS-SVRS, Whisperflo 3hp (water features), A&A Max in floor cleaning, Pentair Easytouch 8 Automation, Screenlogic II, Pentair Mastertemp 400k BTU heater, Pentair Intellichem with acid injection via stennar pump, 9'x7' spa with Infiniti edge

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    tucsontico's Avatar
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    Re: A&A In-floor Cleaner/VS Pump Settings

    Quote Originally Posted by jamcha02 View Post
    I have the exact same setup with g4v heads as we'll. My high speed runs at 2850 rpm for three hours per day. This gives me about 60gpm at the in floor valve. For 9 hours per day, I back it down to 1750 which gives me about 35gpm.

    It's a great system and the monthly energy costs are reasonable. Mine are about 30$ a month with 10 cent per kilowatt hour.
    Thanks jamcha02. My high speed at 2800 rpm gives me 50-60gpm. I run it 6 hours per day because the SWG is on that circuit. The low speed, at 1800 rpm, goes through separate plumbing and doesn't have a flowmeter installed. I run the low speed for 3 hours per day. Do not have a good guess on the energy costs for these times/speeds yet.

    Last year, at the higher speeds, I estimate I was using $45-50 per month at 10 cent per kilowatt hour.
    19,500 gal, 16' x 38' PebbleTec IG Pool, Built 4/2013; Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3050 3 HP Pump, Pentair Intellichlor IC40 SWG, Pentair IntellipH, Pentair 520 sq ft/150 GPM Cartridge Filter, A&A In-Floor Cleaner, Dolphin Nautilus Plus Robot (aka "Robbie"), Pentair EasyTouch Power Panel w/ Quick Touch 4 Remote Control, Autelis WiFi controller, Clear 12 mil Solar Cover on Presto SS Reel, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: A&A In-floor Cleaner/VS Pump Settings

    All of those speed seem a little higher than what you really want, though there is no telling as each system is different. You need to experiment to see what will work with your pool. However, there is no way you need that much total run time of the pump. Aside from what the SWG requires, you should only need four or five hours of total pump run time. Also, with the in-floor cleaning system turned off, most people are fine at 1,000 RPM, though some need to run a little higher than that. 1,000 RPM is the most efficient speed for that pump.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: A&A In-floor Cleaner/VS Pump Settings

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion View Post
    All of those speed seem a little higher than what you really want, though there is no telling as each system is different. You need to experiment to see what will work with your pool. However, there is no way you need that much total run time of the pump. Aside from what the SWG requires, you should only need four or five hours of total pump run time. Also, with the in-floor cleaning system turned off, most people are fine at 1,000 RPM, though some need to run a little higher than that. 1,000 RPM is the most efficient speed for that pump.
    1000 rpm won't cut it for flow requirement for most salt cells. My Intellichlor cuts of at 1300rpm. Plus the op is using venturi skimmers which each require 8gpm on the return side. I've found 1750 to be a great setting.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by tucsontico View Post
    Thanks jamcha02. My high speed at 2800 rpm gives me 50-60gpm. I run it 6 hours per day because the SWG is on that circuit. The low speed, at 1800 rpm, goes through separate plumbing and doesn't have a flowmeter installed. I run the low speed for 3 hours per day. Do not have a good guess on the energy costs for these times/speeds yet.

    Last year, at the higher speeds, I estimate I was using $45-50 per month at 10 cent per kilowatt hour.
    Interesting, I don't have wall returns. Everything goes through the salt cell all the time. I do have a heater bypass to bypass the heater most of the time. I would think you'd want to go through the In floor all the time to get the circulation and heating benefits?
    28000 gallon IG pool, 3.5ft - 8ft deep, Stonescapes Tropics Blue Interior, Pentair Intellichlor SWG, Pentair Quad DE 100 filter, Pentair Intelliflo VS-SVRS, Whisperflo 3hp (water features), A&A Max in floor cleaning, Pentair Easytouch 8 Automation, Screenlogic II, Pentair Mastertemp 400k BTU heater, Pentair Intellichem with acid injection via stennar pump, 9'x7' spa with Infiniti edge

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: A&A In-floor Cleaner/VS Pump Settings

    Quote Originally Posted by jamcha02 View Post
    1000 rpm won't cut it for flow requirement for most salt cells. My Intellichlor cuts of at 1300rpm. Plus the op is using venturi skimmers which each require 8gpm on the return side. I've found 1750 to be a great setting.
    This varies quite a bit from pool to pool, so it is impossible to make really general statements like that. That said, most pools with SWGs and/or venturi skimmers will be fine at 1,000 RPM.

    In-floor cleaning systems are another story, and essentially always need quite a bit more than 1,000 RPM.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    tucsontico's Avatar
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    Re: A&A In-floor Cleaner/VS Pump Settings

    Quote Originally Posted by jamcha02 View Post
    1000 rpm won't cut it for flow requirement for most salt cells. My Intellichlor cuts of at 1300rpm. Plus the op is using venturi skimmers which each require 8gpm on the return side. I've found 1750 to be a great setting.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Interesting, I don't have wall returns. Everything goes through the salt cell all the time. I do have a heater bypass to bypass the heater most of the time. I would think you'd want to go through the In floor all the time to get the circulation and heating benefits?
    Jamcha02,
    I agree about having the SWG go through the in-floor cleaner for the reasons you stated. As I noted, my wall returns are on separate plumbing and bypass the SWG. I wasn't here when the SWG was installed, but putting it on the in-floor cleaner side had to do with my EasyTouch panel and the available relays, etc. In reality BOTH the high speed (cleaner) and low speed (filter) go through my cartridge filter. So I see no problem with running the in-floor cycle longer than the separate "skimmer/filter" cycle.

    BTW, how do you like the ScreenLogic system?
    Last edited by tucsontico; 05-12-2014 at 04:41 PM. Reason: Added question at end of text
    19,500 gal, 16' x 38' PebbleTec IG Pool, Built 4/2013; Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3050 3 HP Pump, Pentair Intellichlor IC40 SWG, Pentair IntellipH, Pentair 520 sq ft/150 GPM Cartridge Filter, A&A In-Floor Cleaner, Dolphin Nautilus Plus Robot (aka "Robbie"), Pentair EasyTouch Power Panel w/ Quick Touch 4 Remote Control, Autelis WiFi controller, Clear 12 mil Solar Cover on Presto SS Reel, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit.

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    tucsontico's Avatar
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    Re: A&A In-floor Cleaner/VS Pump Settings

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion View Post
    All of those speed seem a little higher than what you really want, though there is no telling as each system is different. You need to experiment to see what will work with your pool. However, there is no way you need that much total run time of the pump. Aside from what the SWG requires, you should only need four or five hours of total pump run time. Also, with the in-floor cleaning system turned off, most people are fine at 1,000 RPM, though some need to run a little higher than that. 1,000 RPM is the most efficient speed for that pump.
    JasonLion,

    Thanks for the advice. I'm still experimenting with the speeds/run times/SWG percentages. Right now my SWG is set at 70% and runs for 6 hours (4 in the day and 2 at night). According to chemgeek's formula, my SWG is producing 3.92 oz (by weight) of chlorine gas in that amount of time. PoolMath says that gaseous chlorine amount equates to 1.5 ppm of FC per day. My pool has been stable at 5 ppm FC (using a Taylor K2006 test kit) for the last 12 days. (The solar blanket has been on for half those days)

    If I decrease my SWG run time to 4 hours but increase the output to 100%, I can get essentially the same resultant FC rise (actually it is 1.4 ppm per day). Since my pool water runs through the cartridge filter in both high speed (SWG cycle) and low speed (skimmer/filter cycle) mode, I could easily reduce my "skimmer/filter" cycle to 2 hours for a total of 6 hours per day run time. However, I forsee having to increase my run time as the temps rise here in southern AZ to account for more FC burn off. When that happens, my concern is for the life of the SWG cell running at 100%. Is that a reasonable concern?
    Last edited by tucsontico; 05-12-2014 at 04:38 PM. Reason: Added solar blanket cover time
    19,500 gal, 16' x 38' PebbleTec IG Pool, Built 4/2013; Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3050 3 HP Pump, Pentair Intellichlor IC40 SWG, Pentair IntellipH, Pentair 520 sq ft/150 GPM Cartridge Filter, A&A In-Floor Cleaner, Dolphin Nautilus Plus Robot (aka "Robbie"), Pentair EasyTouch Power Panel w/ Quick Touch 4 Remote Control, Autelis WiFi controller, Clear 12 mil Solar Cover on Presto SS Reel, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit.

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