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Thread: Added Conditioner AND Phosfree

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    KING-OLE's Avatar
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    Question Added Conditioner AND Phosfree

    My pool is in-ground and holds about 30,000 - 35,000 gallons.

    It's a salt water chlorinated pool.

    Main Filter is a Pentair FNS Plus (FNS 60).


    I had my water tested by Leslie's Pool this morning, and they noticed three things:

    1. Salt was high (3700 ppm)
    2. Cyanuric Acid was low (28 ppm)
    3. Phosphates was high (200 ppb)


    They recommended adding 10 Lbs of Conditioner (split into 3 x 72 hours periods), and adding 4 caps of Phos Free.

    I added 4 caps of Phos Free and about 10 minutes later about 2 Lbs of Conditioner.

    However, I just noticed that it said I had to wait with the Phos Free for 72 hours after adding Conditioner.

    I know I should have read all the instructions BEFORE adding anything, but I was kind of in a hurry to get my pool looking good, and it's is beginning to get hot down here in Texas.

    What will this mean? Have I ruined the effect of one or both of the chemicals, or have I created a dangerous mix?

    Chemistry is not my best talent, so forgive me if that was a stupid question.

    Also, for Cyanuric Acid, Leslie's Pool recommends a level between 60 and 99 ppm, but I have read other places that a level that high could cause other issues, so I am not quite sure if I should follow their advise.

    On one hand, they are experts, but on the other hand, if they mess with the levels in my pool, I will end up buying more from them in order to fix it. I know that last part sounds paranoid, but again, I'm not a chemistry guy.

    Thanks in advance for any answer or comment to this.

    Ole
    Last edited by KING-OLE; 05-10-2014 at 01:07 PM. Reason: added more pool info

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Added Conditioner AND Phosfree

    With a salt water chlorine generator (SWG) we recommend CYA be between 70 and 80. Pool stores are notorious for getting CYA test results wrong. I would check your CYA level with a more reliable test before adding all of that CYA.

    We do not recommend the use of PhosFree, nor is there any point in paying attention to phosphates. If you maintain appropriate FC levels it has nothing to do, and it can sometimes cloud up the pool, not to mention the expense. Since you added the PhosFree before adding conditioner I doubt anything bad will happen.
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    Re: Added Conditioner AND Phosfree

    Welcome. You don't need the phos free whatever they sold you. Try n take it back if you can. As far as messing something up I don't think you did so you can quit sweating over that! If I read right, you don't have a SWG? If not, you want a CYA of 30-50 and if ya do you want it at 60-80 and no higher.

    Read pool school and get a reliable test kit and stay away from the pool store! And you're right... they will jack your water up and sell you more stuff to fix it! You'll learn your pool's needs in Pool School, with the TF100 and spending a few weeks testing your water and asking questions.
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

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    KING-OLE's Avatar
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    Re: Added Conditioner AND Phosfree

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion View Post
    With a salt water chlorine generator (SWG) we recommend CYA be between 70 and 80. Pool stores are notorious for getting CYA test results wrong. I would check your CYA level with a more reliable test before adding all of that CYA.

    We do not recommend the use of PhosFree, nor is there any point in paying attention to phosphates. If you maintain appropriate FC levels it has nothing to do, and it can sometimes cloud up the pool, not to mention the expense. Since you added the PhosFree before adding conditioner I doubt anything bad will happen.
    Thanks Jason.

    Algae comes easy to our pool down here in Houston.

    Besides telling me to add 4 caps of PhosFree today, he recommended adding 4 caps every week to protect against algae.

    They had 2 bottles "on sale" for $99, so I guess that was a waste.

    Quote Originally Posted by Casey View Post
    Welcome. You don't need the phos free whatever they sold you. Try n take it back if you can. As far as messing something up I don't think you did so you can quit sweating over that! If I read right, you don't have a SWG? If not, you want a CYA of 30-50 and if ya do you want it at 60-80 and no higher.

    Read pool school and get a reliable test kit and stay away from the pool store! And you're right... they will jack your water up and sell you more stuff to fix it! You'll learn your pool's needs in Pool School, with the TF100 and spending a few weeks testing your water and asking questions.
    Thanks Casey.

    As I told Jason above, I guess I just wasted money on that PhosFree. Oh well, live and learn.

    I DO have a SWCG.

    I will read the pool school and try the TF100 kit.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Added Conditioner AND Phosfree

    Welcome to TFP!!!

    Those pool stores get people every time.

    I agree invest in one of the recommended test kit read Pool School while waiting.
    Once you have the kit, then test everything and post the results.
    You will then need to follow the SLAM process.
    After that, then deal with dialing in the SWG.

    DO NOT add any more stabilizer to the pool until you test and complete the SLAM.

    BTW, with proper FC levels (which are a function of your CYA), algae will NOT start to grow in your pool.
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    Re: Added Conditioner AND Phosfree

    Quote Originally Posted by KING-OLE View Post
    Thanks Jason.

    Algae comes easy to our pool down here in Houston.

    Besides telling me to add 4 caps of PhosFree today, he recommended adding 4 caps every week to protect against algae.

    They had 2 bottles "on sale" for $99, so I guess that was a waste.



    Thanks Casey.

    As I told Jason above, I guess I just wasted money on that PhosFree. Oh well, live and learn.

    I DO have a SWCG.

    I will read the pool school and try the TF100 kit.
    Welcome!

    Get a proper test kit and follow our methods and algae will be a thing of the past. In fact, your pool will get clearer and sparklier than you ever thought possible.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
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    Re: Added Conditioner AND Phosfree

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    Welcome to TFP!!!

    Those pool stores get people every time.

    I agree invest in one of the recommended test kit read Pool School while waiting.
    Once you have the kit, then test everything and post the results.
    You will then need to follow the SLAM process.
    After that, then deal with dialing in the SWG.

    DO NOT add any more stabilizer to the pool until you test and complete the SLAM.

    BTW, with proper FC levels (which are a function of your CYA), algae will NOT start to grow in your pool.
    Thanks jblizzle.

    Any particular sub-forum I should post the test results?

    BTW, I looked for the CC reading on Leslie's Pool test results, and it wasn't there. There was however a TC/TAC which was 2 ppm just like my FC/FAC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320 View Post
    Welcome!

    Get a proper test kit and follow our methods and algae will be a thing of the past. In fact, your pool will get clearer and sparklier than you ever thought possible.
    Thanks Richard.

    No algae??? - I can only hope you're right. We've even had black algae on 2 occasions. That was not funny.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Added Conditioner AND Phosfree

    TC = FC + CC ... we really only care about FC and CC.

    Does not really matter what forum ... in fact just continue this thread to have a continuous story.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Added Conditioner AND Phosfree

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    TC = FC + CC ... we really only care about FC and CC.

    Does not really matter what forum ... in fact just continue this thread to have a continuous story.
    Thanks jblizzle.

    So my CC is currently 0; I guess that's a good sign... (?)

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Added Conditioner AND Phosfree

    Yes that would be a good thing ... if the results are believable
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Added Conditioner AND Phosfree

    Lmao "they are experts" oh thats a good joke
    Nathan
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    Re: Added Conditioner AND Phosfree

    Yes, taking pool care advice from a pool store is about like taking medication advice from your corner drug dealer.
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    Re: Added Conditioner AND Phosfree

    King Ole... I just wanted to show you that if you read Pool School, order a reliable test kit and implement the TFPC and stay out of the pool store, you can have water just like this... Yes it's a liner but there are so many gunnite and plastered pools that look just as good and yours can too! You just have to educate yourself in Pool School!



    If you could update your signature with your pool specs, it would be helpful to others answering any questions you may have.
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

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    Re: Added Conditioner AND Phosfree

    I'll chime in a bit that I don't think all pool stores are evil. I actually like my pool store and I use them as a backup of sorts with my own testing. I'm well aware how some of their test can be flat out off by a large margin but it helps to have another data point. The only things I purchase are acid, stabilizer about once a season and toys for the kids when they go on sale. Then any emergency items like a new leaf net that broke on me this morning. Shame that these nets are $35 a pop and aren't very sturdy. Sometimes Walmart has them cheaper but every time I go to Walmart I realize why I don't go to Walmart.

    So about once a week I get my water tested by a store right down the street from me. I track it with my own testing. I usually test PH/ CL everyday and TA, CH, CYA, every 3 or 4 days when I first reopen the pool then once a week thereafter. I really don't need to use the store testing but why not? I just don't ever listen to the advice of the high school workers. Good luck with that.
    36,000 gallon IG Gunite (40 x 20), 1.5 HP Hayward pump, Pentair Nautilus NS-48 DE filter, 2 skimmers, 12 - (2 x 20) Fafco Solar Panels (Goldline controller not hooked up yet), Hayward Swimpure Plus SWG, Blue Pearl Robot cleaner. New Dr. Wellness X-12 standalone Lifestyle Spa.

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    Re: Added Conditioner AND Phosfree

    Quote Originally Posted by mac4lyfe View Post
    ....
    Sometimes Walmart has them cheaper but every time I go to Walmart I realize why I don't go to Walmart.
    ....
    I take it you're afraid of Walmartians?
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Added Conditioner AND Phosfree

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320 View Post
    I take it you're afraid of Walmartians?
    I'm afraid of both Walmartians and Walcreatures.

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    Re: Added Conditioner AND Phosfree

    Quote Originally Posted by mac4lyfe
    I'll chime in a bit that I don't think all pool stores are evil.
    There are some good ones out there. I also have a pool store near me (a Leslie's, in fact) that I like. They have given me a few freebies such as complimentary minor adjustments to the Polaris. I will, in turn, reward them by purchasing my "vacation" trichlor tabs there (they are actually of very good quality), as well as muriatic acid and pool parts (hoses, skimmer weir's, pool cleaner parts, etc.). However, I will not buy needless chemicals nor will I have my water tested there or at any pool store for that matter. Since embracing the TFP method, I have always trusted my test results using the TF-100 and I only add what is needed to keep the pool sparkling. On the flip-side, there is another Leslie's a few miles away that I wouldn't set foot in even if they were giving parts away. So it all comes down to the individual store owner/manager.
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    Re: Added Conditioner AND Phosfree

    I agree the Leslie's tablets are nice quality. I also like their muriatic acid. Those and a net are about the only things I have bought there.
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    Re: Added Conditioner AND Phosfree

    As I see it the problem with pool stores is not so much them being evil, but often that they don't know better, much of their training comes from their chemical supplier's sales reps, and much of that is geared towards selling product, using testing as a sales technique, etc. In addition they have almost no incentive to get the testing right, not only is it not there pool, but the "down side" of making a mistake is that the customer's pool does not get better, or does not get better as fast as it could, and the customer comes back to buy more stuff. Just look at how they use those computer printed test read outs as a shopping list with no thought towards the results at all. No, hmmm maybe you should not use cal-hypo with the dry season coming up, or you know that trichlor is going to be very acidic and drive down your pH....
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    Re: Added Conditioner AND Phosfree

    I do not consider pool stores an enemy either but their testing is just bogus.
    I'm well aware how some of their test can be flat out off by a large margin but it helps to have another data point.
    The problem with that is if the data is invalid to begin with, there would seem to be no reason to consider it.

    As always, TFPC teaches to trust your own testing. You care more about your pool than anyone else.
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