CSI in swg pool in winter

[Cm_ls1]

Do I add the borates before the salt or after , or does it not matter?

Water temps are dropping to 60f overnight , should I even add salt now , I hear swg are not very effective in cold water , maybe I should delay the salt , plus the plaster is still fresh 32 days now

The swg is on standby , any harm in it sitting in this state - not working?

Relatively Cold temps + 265 ch , 7.4-7.6 ph , if I then add salt at 4500 ppm (min recommended for my swg) puts me close to -.6 csi , any thoughts on this?

 

[Richard320]

The SWG won't work when the water gets cold, so unplug it. And since it's not working, you don't need salt.

Since you folks down under are heading into winter, it's time to go to winter mode. Maintain pH and TA if it shifts too much, and keep up the FC. It won't use much during the off season. Come your Spring, worry about the CYA if you lost any to rainwater dilution and add the salt once everything's balanced and the water warms enough for the SWG to work.

 

[Cm_ls1]

It's a single switch that turns on the pump & swg , I've turned the dial all the way down is this ok , leave the cell in there or remove it?

Still ok to add just borates to the water?

Both lights are steady

 

[jblizzle]

That picture looks like you have the dial all the way up Should be fine to just turn it all the way down though.

You can add borates whenever you want (assuming your TA is fine), but they are completely optional.

 

[mas985]

60F is not very cold for a SWG so you might check the manual. Mine goes down to 50F and then shuts off on it's own. I think most SWGs will shut off on their own when it gets too cold but again, check your manual.

 

[Cm_ls1]

That picture looks like you have the dial all the way up Should be fine to just turn it all the way down though.

You can add borates whenever you want (assuming your TA is fine), but they are completely optional.

I know , I think it's just the way the knob has been inserted , it's turned all the way to the left , hence no lights



Anyway I'll see what water temps get down to

In terms of the csi if I do add salt? , just keep ch at 300+ , TA around 80 and don't let ph drop below 7.6-7.8 ? That should keep me under -.6

 

[chem geek]

Yes, if you get your CH up then as the water warms up your CSI will rise if you keep the same pH. You should be fine with 300+ CH.

 

[Cm_ls1]

hey chem geek or anyone else

is it worth adding borates on there own without running the swg and adding salt ? do you still see the same benefits?

and does it really make the water sparkle?

 

[mas985]

In tested mammals, the most sensitive indicators of boron toxicity are testicular atrophy

 

[chem geek]

The thread Are Borates Safe to Use? talks about the safe levels of boron and yes, the first noticeable symptom for an adverse effect in male dogs was smaller testicle size. This is at a level of drinking 29 mg/kg/day so for a 50 kg person and 50 ppm boron water this is 29 liters of water every day. The EPA uses a factor of 100 margin of safety and sets the limit at the no adverse effect level which is 8.8 mg/kg/day so that would be 88 ml (3 fluid ounces) every day, again with a factor of 100 margin of safety.

As for using borates without an SWCG, you still get the benefits of greater pH buffering which slows down the rate of pH rise though doesn't (in theory) change the amount of acid you need to add over time. You just add larger doses of acid less frequently. As for sparkle, I do notice that in my pool and I notice that the meniscus is much flatter in water samples so I'm guessing that the surface tension of the water is lowered which causes some visible effects in waves.

 

[Cm_ls1]

I have a waterfall feature from my raised spa to the pool , I usually have this running all the time during pump time to ensure the spa water is circulated with the pool running , and as I started with high TA(200) after the replaster a month ago this was great because as I added acid to lower ph & TA ,then aeration would raise the PH up again , and repeat the cycle to lower TA.

What happens when I reach my target TA of 60-80 and the waterfall continues to raise PH ?

I was hoping the borates would stop the Ph from rising but according to you , the borates only buffer (slow down) the ph rise but then you need a larger amount when it does go up, and presumably this will lower TA below where u want it.

 

[chem geek]

Since the amount of acid you would be adding over time is the same with and without borates, the amount of TA drop would also be the same. So you would look at the borates as a convenience to reduce the frequency of acid addition. Now there are some people who reported some lower acid use, but it's not consistent and we don't have an explanation for it so I currently ignore that so as not to get anyone's hopes up regarding acid usage and borates.

However, you should notice that you use less acid when the TA is at a lower level. Since the pH can still rise fairly quickly at a lower TA level even with lower carbon dioxide outgassing, the borates do have a real perceived positive effect when combined with lower TA. That is, a lower TA by itself might not have that much of a noticeable reduction in the rate of pH rise, though the amount of acid needed would be less. With borates, you would notice a slower pH rise so you get an incremental benefit.