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Thread: In Disagreement with the Pool Builder (I know...shocker.....) Pic Included

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    First Pool Judith's Avatar
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    In Disagreement with the Pool Builder (I know...shocker.....) Pic Included

    I finally was able to snap a good picture of this. We have a Tahoe Blue Quartzscape finish. There are a few areas of the pool where the Quartzscape finish literally looks like they missed that spot when powerwashing. It like when you powerwash anything - you can clearly tell where you missed. The pool builder said he thought it was calcium buildup and recommended an acid bath. I disagree. It didn't "build up" and the areas from what I can tell feel exactly the same as the other areas - they're smooth.

    What do you guys think? Could it be cement leaching? Or something else? You can only tell when the sun is not out so it doesn't bother me that much. I just wish they had done a better job.

    pool 3.jpgpool 3.jpg
    Judith and Brian D
    16,000 gal; IG Quartscape; Cartridge Jandy CV460 (150 gpm Max); Jandy Pro 2.0 Variable
    Polaris PB460 3/4 booster; Polaris 280 Cleaner; In Line Chlorinator Tri-Chlor (don't use it) Ozonator
    Fill Date 11/11/2013

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    Re: In Disagreement with the Pool Builder (I know...shocker.....) Pic Included

    It's hard to say from the pic. How old is the finish?

    If it's calcium scale some muriatic acid and water (3 water:1 muriatic) should clean it right off.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    First Pool Judith's Avatar
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    Re: In Disagreement with the Pool Builder (I know...shocker.....) Pic Included

    The pool was just built, completed in Nov. 2013. Specifically, how would I clean it with the muriatic acid and water? Is there a special tool?
    Judith and Brian D
    16,000 gal; IG Quartscape; Cartridge Jandy CV460 (150 gpm Max); Jandy Pro 2.0 Variable
    Polaris PB460 3/4 booster; Polaris 280 Cleaner; In Line Chlorinator Tri-Chlor (don't use it) Ozonator
    Fill Date 11/11/2013

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    First Pool Judith's Avatar
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    3 water:1 muriatic acid - but how?

    Merged treads. Please do not ask the same question in more than one place. Thanks, Butterfly

    Trying to get some clarification in my last post from The Deep End.
    Original post here
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...)-Pic-Included

    Duraleigh said - If it's calcium scale some muriatic acid and water (3 water:1 muriatic) should clean it right off.

    My question is HOW do you do that? Is there a special tool? Just confused. Thanks All!
    Judith and Brian D
    16,000 gal; IG Quartscape; Cartridge Jandy CV460 (150 gpm Max); Jandy Pro 2.0 Variable
    Polaris PB460 3/4 booster; Polaris 280 Cleaner; In Line Chlorinator Tri-Chlor (don't use it) Ozonator
    Fill Date 11/11/2013

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    Re: 3 water:1 muriatic acid - but how?

    Buy a spray bottle, or reuse an empty one that held windex or something. Fill it 3/4 with water, then add the acid to the water. Spritz it on and watch it foam, maybe take a plastic scrub brush to it, slosh some pool water on to rinse it off.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
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    First Pool Judith's Avatar
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    Re: 3 water:1 muriatic acid - but how?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320 View Post
    Buy a spray bottle, or reuse an empty one that held windex or something. Fill it 3/4 with water, then add the acid to the water. Spritz it on and watch it foam, maybe take a plastic scrub brush to it, slosh some pool water on to rinse it off.
    i'm confused,,,,the white parts are in the pool - under water. Are you saying used the spray bottle under water??
    Judith and Brian D
    16,000 gal; IG Quartscape; Cartridge Jandy CV460 (150 gpm Max); Jandy Pro 2.0 Variable
    Polaris PB460 3/4 booster; Polaris 280 Cleaner; In Line Chlorinator Tri-Chlor (don't use it) Ozonator
    Fill Date 11/11/2013

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: 3 water:1 muriatic acid - but how?

    Quote Originally Posted by First Pool Brian View Post
    i'm confused,,,,the white parts are in the pool - under water. Are you saying used the spray bottle under water??
    Now the topics are merged, I'm confused, too. No, a spray bottle won't work underwater.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: In Disagreement with the Pool Builder (I know...shocker.....) Pic Included

    Welcome to the forum Brian

    Those are not scaling spots IMO. They are sort of cream spots left after acid wash/power spraying. Simply areas that were missed when the finish was done, where more plaster base was left behind. More than in other areas with greater exposure that is. The PB is trying to blame it on something else I think.

    If it were mine, I would first try to attack the problem by vigorous brushing with a nylon brush and concentrate on those lighter spots. I'm not a fan of taking the pH way down like that at all. It would likely help, but I don't like the idea of what it may do to the finish in the long run. In the short run, it might even create a situation where you have over exposure of the rest of the aggregate. After all, the acid wash brushing and power wash prior to filling is done for that precise reason. Exposure of the aggregate. I know it stinks, but I would live with it as best I could, and try brushing to minimize it, and avoid doing another acid exposure to the finish.

    Alternatively, and another crummy option would be draining, and local application of acid and brushing, possibly power washing to even out those lesser exposed areas. I'm hoping our Plaster expert will weigh in, but that is my take on the whole thing. Sorry to hear it, but I know how you feel. My finish wasn't perfect by any means, but overall, I love the color and type of finish we chose. Perhaps you can persuade the PB to fix it on your terms.
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    Re: In Disagreement with the Pool Builder (I know...shocker.....) Pic Included

    the white parts are in the pool - under water
    Then I withdraw my observation of calcium scale. I misinterpreted the pics ....I thought the white lines were above the water. I think brushpup may have the right answer.
    Dave S.
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    Re: In Disagreement with the Pool Builder (I know...shocker.....) Pic Included

    This is actually a tough call to make. The white areas could be calcium scale as Dave originally suggests, and it could be cement cream that wasn't removed by the power wash as suggested by Brushpup.
    The question is, what happened to cause this? I would like to know more, and interested in learning what happened.

    Was the pool given an acid wash prior to the power wash? Some contractors do and some don't.
    When rubbing your hand and fingers on both the darker and lighter areas, take a close look, and does any powdery residue comes off either area? I am trying to determine if excessive porosity is an issue.
    How much of the whole pool looks like the area in the picture?
    What are your tap water readings for pH, TA, and CH?
    As for an acid test, get a squeeze bottle and put acid in it and put into the pool water and squeeze the acid onto a white area and see if it comes off and turns darker blue.

    The bottom line and most probable cause is what you mentioned at first. The power-washer missed some areas. Sloppy work. Try to not letting the PB get away with blaming the problem on bad water chemistry and causing the white areas. If bad water chemistry was the cause, then it would cause uniform and consistent white calcium scaling everywhere, and indeed, would be rough to the touch, not smooth.

    The best step is to get the contractor back out and redo the power-washing in those areas, NOT do an acid wash as Brushpup also advises against doing.

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    First Pool Judith's Avatar
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    Re: In Disagreement with the Pool Builder (I know...shocker.....) Pic Included

    OK Thank you all for your feedback. To answer some of your questions ONBALANCE - Yes, the pool was given an acid wash. It's looked like this basically since day 1. The pool was completed in November. When rubbing it, no powdery residue come off. The pool builder would have a hard time proving it's a bad chemisrty issue because I've been taking care of the pool myself since the first month and I have everything documented weekly (now daily.) There's only a few areas of the pool that look like this and only on the side they finished on. I purchased a stainless steel brush - I tried it but it didn't seem to do anything. I wonder if I should use this brush though as BRUSHUP recommended a nylon brush. Thoughts?
    Judith and Brian D
    16,000 gal; IG Quartscape; Cartridge Jandy CV460 (150 gpm Max); Jandy Pro 2.0 Variable
    Polaris PB460 3/4 booster; Polaris 280 Cleaner; In Line Chlorinator Tri-Chlor (don't use it) Ozonator
    Fill Date 11/11/2013

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    Re: In Disagreement with the Pool Builder (I know...shocker.....) Pic Included

    Good morning. Regarding ways to spot clean underwater with muriatic acid, check out this tool I just myself ordered to work on a few rust spots: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    I haven't tried it yet, but IF in fact its buildup, not cream, it might be helpful. That said....I do think brush pup presents a very logical interpretation about what's happened. I just wanted to share about the tool because I've been looking for something like this for a while now and was happy to discover it

    Best wishes in your PB dispute!
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    Re: In Disagreement with the Pool Builder (I know...shocker.....) Pic Included

    Hey Brian,

    This is the Plaster expert I was referring too. There are likely few if any you can talk too that will be more knowledgeable, or helpful on this subject. He is an expert among experts.
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    Re: In Disagreement with the Pool Builder (I know...shocker.....) Pic Included

    My guess is that the white areas are porous and then turned white immediately after filling the pool, and possibly also from some plaster dust sticking. Those surfaces areas need to be sanded and made dense and smoother.

    You could try the stainless steel brush now, which is okay to use now that the pool is a few months old. So scrub hard on the white areas.
    If that doesn't work after a while, then try 100 grit wet-or-dry sandpaper on a small white area for 10 seconds. See if you can get the color uniform. That should get the surface exceptionally smooth where you sand.

    I know it is difficult to make demands, but I think you should try to get the PB or plastering contractor to try the above approaches first. He should do the work and be responsible. If it doesn't look good afterwards, then have him drain down the pool and power wash and polish (power-sanding) the white areas.

    I agree with Brushpup that more acid washing is not a good idea. (Good job Patrick, and thanks.)

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