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Thread: Pool School Question

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    tucsontico's Avatar
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    Question Pool School Question

    According to the Pool School article "Water Balance for SWGs," the best time to run the SWG is:

    "...during the day while the sun is shining on the pool. Unless there is some other reason not to run the pump during the day, like time of day electric rates that are higher during the day, program the pump to run while the sun is shining on the pool."

    My question is, simply,: Why?

    I currently run my in-floor cleaner from 8 PM to 12 AM and the filter from 12:01 AM until 4 AM for a total of 8 hours. My SWG is only on with the in-floor cleaner, so I'm "chlorinating" for 4 hours per evening. Seems a bit counter-intuitive to me to run the SWG during the day. From what I understand, even with a proper CYA of 70-80 ppm, running the SWG while the sun is out will burn off chlorine almost as fast as your SWG is adding it to the pool.

    Thanks in advance!

    BTW, today's K-2006 test results:

    FC- 3.0
    CC- 0
    pH- 7.8
    TA- 110
    CH- 225
    CYA- 60
    Salt- 3400
    Borate- 0
    Temp- 76║F
    19,500 gal, 16' x 38' PebbleTec IG Pool, Built 4/2013; Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3050 3 HP Pump, Pentair Intellichlor IC40 SWG, Pentair IntellipH, Pentair 520 sq ft/150 GPM Cartridge Filter, A&A In-Floor Cleaner, Dolphin Nautilus Plus Robot (aka "Robbie"), Pentair EasyTouch Power Panel w/ Quick Touch 4 Remote Control, Autelis WiFi controller, Clear 12 mil Solar Cover on Presto SS Reel, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit.

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: Pool School Question

    You don't want your FC levels to drop below certain minimums, so it makes sense that you want to generate your chlorine during the period that is is being burned off the fastest to keep the chances of dropping below the minimal values the highest. If your SWG can barely keep up with the sunlight burn off rate then there is no way that it could produce enough chlorine for your pool during a 4 hour nightly run.

    Ike
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Casey's Avatar
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    Re: Pool School Question

    And you are 1ppm below the recommended FC level for a CYA level of 60 (for SWG). Just saying...
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

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    tucsontico's Avatar
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    Re: Pool School Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac-1 View Post
    You don't want your FC levels to drop below certain minimums, so it makes sense that you want to generate your chlorine during the period that is is being burned off the fastest to keep the chances of dropping below the minimal values the highest. If your SWG can barely keep up with the sunlight burn off rate then there is no way that it could produce enough chlorine for your pool during a 4 hour nightly run.

    Ike
    Ike,

    Thanks for the explanation. That makes sense. However, I've never tested my SWG to see if it will keep up to the sunlight burn off rate. I assume that the Intellichlor IC40 will more than adequately produce enough chlorine to handle the all day, full sun that lands on my pool. I'll swap my cleaner/filter schedule to the daylight hours next week to test the SWG capability.
    19,500 gal, 16' x 38' PebbleTec IG Pool, Built 4/2013; Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3050 3 HP Pump, Pentair Intellichlor IC40 SWG, Pentair IntellipH, Pentair 520 sq ft/150 GPM Cartridge Filter, A&A In-Floor Cleaner, Dolphin Nautilus Plus Robot (aka "Robbie"), Pentair EasyTouch Power Panel w/ Quick Touch 4 Remote Control, Autelis WiFi controller, Clear 12 mil Solar Cover on Presto SS Reel, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit.

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    tucsontico's Avatar
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    Re: Pool School Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Casey View Post
    And you are 1ppm below the recommended FC level for a CYA level of 60 (for SWG). Just saying...
    Casey,

    You're correct. We had a strong windstorm (25-35 mph winds all day) yesterday. There's a bit more debris in my pool than usual. I've not had a chance to clear all the debris. I also didnt increase the SWG output to compensate for the extra organic material decay until tonight. Should be back to proper FC levels tomorrow!
    19,500 gal, 16' x 38' PebbleTec IG Pool, Built 4/2013; Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3050 3 HP Pump, Pentair Intellichlor IC40 SWG, Pentair IntellipH, Pentair 520 sq ft/150 GPM Cartridge Filter, A&A In-Floor Cleaner, Dolphin Nautilus Plus Robot (aka "Robbie"), Pentair EasyTouch Power Panel w/ Quick Touch 4 Remote Control, Autelis WiFi controller, Clear 12 mil Solar Cover on Presto SS Reel, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit.

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    Re: Pool School Question

    [EDIT] edited calculation to show more details [END-EDIT]

    According to the Intellichlor« brochure, the IC40 produces up to 1.40 pounds of chlorine in 24 hours. So 4 hours would be ((4 hours)/(24 hours/day)) * (1.40 pounds chlorine / day) * (16 ounces/pound) = 3.73 ounces weight of chlorine over 4 hours. In 20,000 gallons that's 1.4 ppm FC. That seems like a low chlorine demand for Arizona and I'd expect a higher chlorine loss as we move towards summer. You might even need to move your CYA up to 80 ppm with a slightly higher FC target to lose somewhat less chlorine.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Re: Pool School Question

    Quote Originally Posted by tucsontico View Post
    Casey,

    You're correct. We had a strong windstorm (25-35 mph winds all day) yesterday. There's a bit more debris in my pool than usual. I've not had a chance to clear all the debris. I also didnt increase the SWG output to compensate for the extra organic material decay until tonight. Should be back to proper FC levels tomorrow!
    The joys of early Spring! Very few people have their covers off right now and I get an occasional reaming and rubbing from my family for having my cover off but I know who's not going to be green with envy in a few weeks!
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

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    Re: Pool School Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Casey View Post
    The joys of early Spring! Very few people have their covers off right now and I get an occasional reaming and rubbing from my family for having my cover off but I know who's not going to be green with envy in a few weeks!
    Yep! Here in Tucson my water temp is rising about 2║F per day with the solar (bubble) cover on. Gonna be 90║F today so I'm taking off the cover and, possibly, swimming a lap or two in the 78║ F water!
    19,500 gal, 16' x 38' PebbleTec IG Pool, Built 4/2013; Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3050 3 HP Pump, Pentair Intellichlor IC40 SWG, Pentair IntellipH, Pentair 520 sq ft/150 GPM Cartridge Filter, A&A In-Floor Cleaner, Dolphin Nautilus Plus Robot (aka "Robbie"), Pentair EasyTouch Power Panel w/ Quick Touch 4 Remote Control, Autelis WiFi controller, Clear 12 mil Solar Cover on Presto SS Reel, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit.

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    Re: Pool School Question

    Quote Originally Posted by chem geek View Post
    According to the Intellichlor« brochure, the IC40 produces up to 1.40 pounds of chlorine in 24 hours. So 4 hours would be (4/24)*1.40*16 = 3.73 ounces weight of chlorine. In 20,000 gallons that's 1.4 ppm FC. That seems like a low chlorine demand for Arizona and I'd expect a higher chlorine loss as we move towards summer. You might even need to move your CYA up to 80 ppm with a slightly higher FC target to lose somewhat less chlorine.
    Chem geeK,

    Thanks for the expert calculations! Presently, I have a solar cover (bubble wrap-style) on my pool and that is helping with chlorine retention. (Obviously, it helps decrease evaporation losses, too.) I am taking that off this weekend and will be rescheduling my SWG to run in the daylight hours. Since it has been only 1 week with my SWG, I'm still learning the pools chlorine requirements. The temps are now running about 90║F each day so I'm going to have to increase the SWG output anyway. Thanks again!
    Last edited by tucsontico; 05-03-2014 at 12:21 PM. Reason: typo
    19,500 gal, 16' x 38' PebbleTec IG Pool, Built 4/2013; Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3050 3 HP Pump, Pentair Intellichlor IC40 SWG, Pentair IntellipH, Pentair 520 sq ft/150 GPM Cartridge Filter, A&A In-Floor Cleaner, Dolphin Nautilus Plus Robot (aka "Robbie"), Pentair EasyTouch Power Panel w/ Quick Touch 4 Remote Control, Autelis WiFi controller, Clear 12 mil Solar Cover on Presto SS Reel, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit.

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    Cool Re: Pool School Question

    Took the solar cover off and brushed/skimmed the debris from the pool. Test results:

    FC- 4.0
    CC- 0
    pH- 7.8
    TA- 110
    CH-225
    CYA- 60
    Salt- 3400
    Temp- 79║ F

    Here's a couple of pictures:

    Cover on:
    poolcovered.jpg

    Cover off:
    coveroff.jpg

    BTW, the water is so clear I can read the imprinted manufacturer's name on my main drain! The TFP method works!
    19,500 gal, 16' x 38' PebbleTec IG Pool, Built 4/2013; Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3050 3 HP Pump, Pentair Intellichlor IC40 SWG, Pentair IntellipH, Pentair 520 sq ft/150 GPM Cartridge Filter, A&A In-Floor Cleaner, Dolphin Nautilus Plus Robot (aka "Robbie"), Pentair EasyTouch Power Panel w/ Quick Touch 4 Remote Control, Autelis WiFi controller, Clear 12 mil Solar Cover on Presto SS Reel, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit.

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    Re: Pool School Question

    Nice pool and desertscaping.
    ~22,000 gallon inground plaster pool, 1 skimmer, 3 return jets
    Irregular pool sized approximately 19' x 40' 9' deep, Color Splash 3G pool light
    Pentair Clean & Clear Plus cartridge filter (part# 160301)
    1 HP Pentair Pump Model WFE-24 single speed
    Light Blue Pool Cover BBB Method

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    tucsontico's Avatar
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    Re: Pool School Question

    Quote Originally Posted by PharmerAnthony View Post
    Nice pool and desertscaping.
    Thanks! We really enjoy the space and the "oasis" feel.
    19,500 gal, 16' x 38' PebbleTec IG Pool, Built 4/2013; Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3050 3 HP Pump, Pentair Intellichlor IC40 SWG, Pentair IntellipH, Pentair 520 sq ft/150 GPM Cartridge Filter, A&A In-Floor Cleaner, Dolphin Nautilus Plus Robot (aka "Robbie"), Pentair EasyTouch Power Panel w/ Quick Touch 4 Remote Control, Autelis WiFi controller, Clear 12 mil Solar Cover on Presto SS Reel, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit.

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    Re: Pool School Question

    Chem geek, I'm reluctant to question an expert, but what does the *16 designate in your formula? I'm used to using a production percentage, but that's clearly not what that is.
    Pool size: 24000gal inground Vinyl-Taylor k-2006 and k-1766 test kits and-speed stir
    Intermatic P1353ME digital timer w/freeze sensor
    CircuPool Si-45 SWCG System
    Polaris 280 vacuum/Polaris PB4-60 boost pump
    Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3hp Pump--Pentair sand filter

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Pool School Question

    Pounds to ounces ... don't feel silly
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    Re: Pool School Question

    boy do I feel silly! But that brings up another question-- does that mean it's running at 100% the whole 4 hrs? Btw Jason,I tried to answer you're pm to me the other day, but your storage is/was full.
    Pool size: 24000gal inground Vinyl-Taylor k-2006 and k-1766 test kits and-speed stir
    Intermatic P1353ME digital timer w/freeze sensor
    CircuPool Si-45 SWCG System
    Polaris 280 vacuum/Polaris PB4-60 boost pump
    Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3hp Pump--Pentair sand filter

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    Re: Pool School Question

    I've edited my post to show the calculation details more clearly.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Re: Pool School Question

    Thanks cg. I guess intelliflos run at 100% by default.
    Pool size: 24000gal inground Vinyl-Taylor k-2006 and k-1766 test kits and-speed stir
    Intermatic P1353ME digital timer w/freeze sensor
    CircuPool Si-45 SWCG System
    Polaris 280 vacuum/Polaris PB4-60 boost pump
    Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3hp Pump--Pentair sand filter

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    tucsontico's Avatar
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    Re: Pool School Question

    Quote Originally Posted by timerguy View Post
    Thanks cg. I guess intelliflos run at 100% by default.
    Actually, the IntelliChlor, when coupled with an EasyTouch or IntelliTouch control panel, can be set from 20% to 100% in 1% increments. Otherwise it jumps in 20% increments when using the built-in controls on the IntelliChlor. According to Pentair, this means is the SWG is only running for x% of the time it is powered on and senses sufficient flow through the cell.

    Mine is currently set for 75% so using a 4 hour run time and chem geek's calculation, my SWG is only producing 3.73*.75=2.89 ounces (by weight) of chlorine. However, since I removed the solar blanket, I've increased the run time to 6 hours at 75%. Again using chem geek's formula my SWG is now producing about 4.2 ounces of chlorine. I haven't tested the pool today but will post the numbers when I get them.
    19,500 gal, 16' x 38' PebbleTec IG Pool, Built 4/2013; Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3050 3 HP Pump, Pentair Intellichlor IC40 SWG, Pentair IntellipH, Pentair 520 sq ft/150 GPM Cartridge Filter, A&A In-Floor Cleaner, Dolphin Nautilus Plus Robot (aka "Robbie"), Pentair EasyTouch Power Panel w/ Quick Touch 4 Remote Control, Autelis WiFi controller, Clear 12 mil Solar Cover on Presto SS Reel, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit.

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