New Pool Build - TX

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Re: New Pool Build - TX (formerly Red Tape pool dream problem)

Ha yes, Dave you are correct sir. What is so ironic is that up until about 5 months ago, I didn't want a pool at all. In fact, if I would've known all the problems we were going to encounter to get to this point...that would've been my perfect excuse to kill the pool dream myself. However, I didn't quite realize all the "cool" things you can do with a pool (lighting, waterfalls, etc) in addition to outdoor grills, arbor, firepits, etc. I'm not super big on actually swimming, but my wife is..and my kids love the water. But we all spend the majority of our time at home in the backyard. So it seemed to make sense. Even though we've had some hiccups, we've found solutions and kept moving forward. Now I'm really excited about it.

Now, I'm ready for some feedback on our design. We're still finalizing our design to obtain firm bids. I have attached it below. The pool area is located a good 30 inches or so below the slab grade of our house. Because of the slope of our lot, our house had to be built up quite a bit, so the backyard slopes down from the house a little drastically for the first 10 ft or so then it levels out. So we had to get down to that level with the steps, and then get some retaining walls in for the surrounding yard. We have a big landscaped area where the arbor will be located. We'll be keeping a row of azaleas along the house, and the rest will be flagstone decking with planters around the perimeter. We're very happy with the design, the only thing we're trying to decide is whether or not to end the decking where the arbor is and retain that area as landscaping, or continue on the decking over to the AC units as he currently has it designed. My wife kind of is leaning to stop the decking at the arbor, and keep that area landscaped with some differing heights of bushes to maintain a more intimate area around the table and provide some interest with the landscaping at the end (not to mention it would help hide the propane tank along that wall and hide our table from the rest of the neighborhood since we are above the height of our perimeter 6 ft privacy fence). The PB says that it would be usable decking with bistro tables if need be, and since it is already up on the level of the arbor, might as well use it for decking. I know that most people on here say add more decking if possible. So we aren't sure.

The only other thing was the size of the pool. I know others have said on here, "When in doubt, go bigger." I brought that up to the PB and he really said that he thinks we'll be happy with this pool, and we're already taking up so much of the backyard, that if we made it bigger...that would take up more of the decking towards the house.

Anyway, anybody see anything else glaring that we need to address? Thanks all for the help so far!

14681084817_4ee663c1bd_o.jpg
 
Re: New Pool Build - TX (formerly Red Tape pool dream problem)

Thanks Rusty!

No other comments on our design? I guess its perfect!! Just kidding. I've asked him to make it a slightly bigger, and we're ending the decking up top at the end of the arbor. We decided those extra few feet of decking wont' be that usable in such a small space, and we're going to utilize some landscaping to hide it from the street and neighborhood.

Any other comments welcome!
 
Re: New Pool Build - TX (formerly Red Tape pool dream problem)

Love it! This is going to be awesome. I definitely support the decision to go with the landscaping/vegetative privacy screen vs the extra deck. Deck space is nice, but not being on display for the neighbors and other passers-by is nicer.
 
Re: New Pool Build - TX (formerly Red Tape pool dream problem)

Thanks Ryno! I totally agree. We're probably only giving up about 20-30 sq ft of deck space, but because of the height we'll be open to the side street and we really would like to hide that as much as we can. We're really excited about this design. Hope to get the final revisions back soon so we can start moving forward.
 
Re: New Pool Build - TX (formerly Red Tape pool dream problem)

Really glad you got this figured out! Maybe you are a little like me - I am truly motivated by someone telling me "you can't do that". lol! Plans look great. The only thing I would caution against is to make sure that the plantings between the pool and the house don't block the view of the water. Kids... Oh, and super good job opening the restroom to the pool - you have saved yourself a ton of misery doing that!
 
Re: New Pool Build - TX (formerly Red Tape pool dream problem)

Well another road block. Finally received our bid back for the above design, and it blew through our "we aren't spending a penny more than" red-line budget, and it did it with such ease we are wondering how we got to this point in the beginning. Obviously some communication was off with our PB. Sticker shock doesn't even come remotely close.

So, we aren't back to square one...but maybe square three. We had a few other designs that we liked, but just didn't blow us away like this one, but are still under our budget. Hopefully tweaking them will get us back on track.

To be continued....
 
Re: New Pool Build - TX (formerly Red Tape pool dream problem)

Twolabs said:
Well another road block. Finally received our bid back for the above design, and it blew through our "we aren't spending a penny more than" red-line budget, and it did it with such ease we are wondering how we got to this point in the beginning. Obviously some communication was off with our PB. Sticker shock doesn't even come remotely close.

So, we aren't back to square one...but maybe square three. We had a few other designs that we liked, but just didn't blow us away like this one, but are still under our budget. Hopefully tweaking them will get us back on track.

To be continued....
Click to expand...

That sucks. I had the same problem with my build. See if you can negotiate. When I pushed back, they took $10k off the price. They said it was because their initial build had an 8-ton water fall, but there is no earthly way that was true - they were just fishing to see if we'd accept that price.
 
Re: New Pool Build - TX (formerly Red Tape pool dream problem)

Well, the problem is....they are north of our budget by more than 5 times that. And our top of the line budget was already VERY generous. I've seen pools of similar quality (and even more complicated) to my untrained eyes built on this forum for far less than our budget ceiling...and this bid was so far above it that it is almost pointless to try to negotiate. Even if we cut the arbor, flagstone veneer of the back porch, kitchen, fire pit, retaining walls...etc...we would still probably not come at our budget. And at that point we would've cut out 50% of our wish list while still hitting our top of the line budget.

We do have some other promising designs and bids that we are going to meet with next week and see if we can tweak.

CusePool said:
That sucks. I had the same problem with my build. See if you can negotiate. When I pushed back, they took $10k off the price. They said it was because their initial build had an 8-ton water fall, but there is no earthly way that was true - they were just fishing to see if we'd accept that price.
Click to expand...
 

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Re: New Pool Build - TX (formerly Red Tape pool dream problem)

Wow. I know what a bummer this is because it is such an arduous process getting the design that you like, then they bomb you with an insane price. Hopefully you'll be able to get some more reasonable quotes. As frustrating and time consuming as this phase of the project is, since we signed our contract, I've learned that what you are doing now is the fun part! How depressing is that!!?
 
Re: New Pool Build - TX (formerly Red Tape pool dream problem)

Well believe it or not, you were right CusePool, after a "Thanks but that's so far over our budget I don't even know where to begin" email...he did call back and after cutting some things from the design, gets us tantalizingly close to our red line budget;) while still keeping our "must haves". Cutting the outdoor kitchen and arbor for a later day. So we are close, but I still want to see if can delete anything else. I have already spotted the Nature 2 and test kit, but thats about it. See anything else that isn't necessary? I am still waiting on my soil analysis from my home builder so I can send it to an independent geotechnical engineer to get their opinion on the designs.

Excavation
1.00 EA Diver Pool 400 Sq. Ft
224.00 SF Diver Pool Over 400 Sq. Ft.
1.00 EA 18" Raised Spa
2.00 HR Hours Of Pre Grade
1.00 EA Stakes And Pegboard

Piers for Pool
12.00 EA Bobcat Helo Piers 7ft Length
12.00 EA Each 5 Ft Helo Pier Extension 5900 psi
12.00 EA Helo Pier Cap
1.00 EA Travel Charge

Pool Steel Cage
118.00 LN 1/2" Steel On 10" Centers
4.00 EA Benches
2.00 EA Tan Decks
1.00 EA Second Skimmer
2.00 EA Deck Dowels
2.00 EA Extra Lights
1.00 EA Diving Pool
1.00 EA Spa Light
1.00 EA Spa Steel Installation
1.00 EA Spa With Double Wall Steel

Pool Plumbing *Going to clarify 2" plumbing
1.00 EA Base Pool W/ Spa 4 Returns, 6 Jets 3" Suction
30.00 LF Plumbing Run To Equip. From Pool
45.00 LF Plumbing Run To Equip. From Spa
25.00 LF Water Feature Pipe Suction From Main Drain
25.00 LF Water Feature Pipe Footage / Return
4.00 EA Jandy Valve For Water Features
2.00 EA Extra Pump Set
45.00 LF Fill Line For Pool Over 10ft
1.00 EA Chlorinator Install
2.00 EA Extra Light Niche / One Stick Brass 1 10ft
3.00 EA Extra Pool / Spa Returns
1.00 EA Equipment Set

Pool Equipment
1.00 EA 3/4 Hp " Cleaner Pump " Hayward
3.00 EA Circulation Pump 3 Hp 230V Hayward Tristar
1.00 EA 525 Sq. Ft. Cartridge Filter Hayward Swimclear
1.00 EA Hayward 400,000 Btu Lx Heater "Propane" Heater/Cupro Nickel Exchanger
2.00 EA Universal Color Logic Led Pool Light W/ 100ft Cord
2.00 EA Universal Color Logic Led Spa Light 100 Ft
1.00 EA 2 H.p. Air Blower Silencer
1.00 EA Nature 2 Dualfusion Mineral Purifier *Delete*
1.00 EA Pool Pole
1.00 EA 18" Brush
1.00 EA Leaf Rake
1.00 EA 4-1 Test Kit Delete, already have my TFP
1.00 EA Acid For Deck Wash
1.00 EA Shock For Start Up
1.00 EA Conditioner For Start Up
1.00 EA Pool / Spa Eye Balls / Fittings
1.00 EA Deco Seal / Mastic Joint
1.00 EA Polaris 280 Pool Cleaner
1.00 EA Aqua Logic Controls, Remote, and Antenna
1.00 EA Tax On Pool Equipment 8.25%
16.00 EA Hayward Pro Low Voltage Lighting
1.00 EA Hayward Pro Low Voltage Transformer
1.00 EA I-Connect 4G Automated Hookup Droid Or Iphone

Gunite
75.00 EA Gunite Pool = Yards
1.00 EA Gunite Spa
1.00 EA Raised Spa Spillway
1.00 EA Set Of Steps
4.00 EA Benches
2.00 EA Bathing Shelf
1.00 EA Modern Method Gunite Slide , Planters, And Waterfalls
1.00 EA Gunite For Retaining Walls

Electric
1.00 EA Base Pool Price
1.00 EA Spa Light
1.00 EA Heater
1.00 EA Blower
2.00 EA Extra Pool Light
1.00 EA Pre Bond Pool
2.00 EA Extra Pump For Water Features
2.00 EA Extra Electrical Plug Up To 60 Ft
1.00 EA Automated System
1.00 Low Voltage lighting installation

Tile and Coping
110.00 LN Pool Tile Perimeter
626.00 LF 12" Standard Pool Flagstone Coping
30.00 LF 18" Standard Wide Coping
50.00 SF Spa Facing / Veneer " Raised Spa" Standard
800.00 SF Raised Bond Beam Facing / Veneer Standard
65.00 SF Flagstone Beach Entrance Standard
1.00 EA Spa Trickle Down Spillway
587.00 SF Flag Deck
1.00 EA Second Skimmer
1.00 EA Over Flow

Swimming Pool Concrete Deck
746.00 SF Exposed Aggregate
208.00 SF Sub Deck = Screeded Sub Base
250.00 LF 4" Drain Pipe
8.00 EA Deck Drains
2.00 EA Down Spouts / Under Ground
1.00 EA Cure And Seal Deck Sealer

Clean and Grade
1.00 EA Clean & Grade
1.00 EA Load Of Top Soil

Plaster
118.00 LF Color Plaster
1.00 EA Plaster Spa
4.00 EA Benches Plaster
1.00 EA Tanning Benches Plaster
1.00 EA Steps Plaster
1.00 EA Color Goods Package Pool & Spa

Start Up
200.00 LF Mastic Perimeter Pool / Spa
1.00 EA Start Up / Chemical Installation
1.00 EA Acid Wash Deck

Fire Pit
1.00 EA Flagstone Fire Pit With Fire Brick
1.00 EA Risers With Poly Run
1.00 EA Key Assembly And Fire Ring
1.00 EA Lava Rock
1.00 EA Regulator
 
Re: New Pool Build - TX (formerly Red Tape pool dream problem)

A few things catch my eye:
1) 3x 3hp pumps for circulation? That's a whole lot of power. Is it necessary?
2) what is the chlorinator install line item? I didn't see the chlorinator in the equipment list.
3) I don't know much about this stuff, but can't you use the propane heater for the spa as well instead of an electric heater?
4) a good robot might be better and cheaper than the Polaris plus cleaner pump...
5) we had an exposed aggregate patio at our old house and I found it very uncomfortable on bare feet. I would suggest a different finish.
 
Re: New Pool Build - TX (formerly Red Tape pool dream problem)

Thank you both so far for the suggestions.

I don't know about the 3hp pumps, but we're having a good sized gunite waterfall and slide built. I'm strictly going on his expertise here.

I don't know about the chlorinator, i'll double check about that. I don't quite understand your question #3. As far as I know, we're heating the spa with propane only since we already have an existing propane tank. No electric.

As far as the decking, that is this PB's deck of choice. Initially we were against it, but I've been on two of his pool decks in the aggregate and they do a great job and wasn't that hard on our feet. If budget was unlimited, I'd like to go with travertine pavers but that would add probably $15k to this project.

Thanks again for the suggestions so far.
 
Re: New Pool Build - TX (formerly Red Tape pool dream problem)

I am watching this one!

I hope you can have the pool of your dreams without a flat wallet.

I would get bids from at least 2 more builders. You will be very surprised at the difference in prices.

When I am taking bids I make sure they all know it. When we were getting bids on our new AC/heater they different reps were walking past each other in the yard LOL.

Kim
 
Re: New Pool Build - TX (formerly Red Tape pool dream problem)

Carveitup I think that heater was just labeled under the electrical labor section.

Kim thanks! I hope so too! We have gotten three other designs and two bids besides this one. And this one was the most... By a long shot. But this one also has so many great features and we know how it will look. We really wanted to avoid a lot of the waterfall looks around this area that are common. Just looks like a big pile of small rocks coming out of no where with no aesthetic eye for design involved. With this builder we have seen two jaw dropping pools that he has done and we know it would be incredible.

So the two other bids are pretty much: a very nice pool but that's about it.... The second was a really neat pool that would certainly turn some heads... And this pool is our dream pool.

So we are still crunching the numbers and seeing what churns out!
 
Re: New Pool Build - TX (formerly Red Tape pool dream problem)

Twolabs, I hope you can get the pool of your dreams and if you can make the numbers work - your design is amazing. It is that vision - that makes any of the frustrations with the build worth it. I love a comment that was made on the ROI thread - "the first year of swims cost $1000 each. After that it was free." We're at the point now - where we are almost halfway invested in the total budget (and about to make the third payment out of five) and are struggling that we have spent a lot of money so far but don't have anything to enjoy yet - usually when we have spent this much money - we already have something to play with :) But I keep going back to our design and think - "I love this design" Good luck - Karen
 
Re: New Pool Build - TX (formerly Red Tape pool dream problem)

I wonder what would happen if you showed THE dream pool to the other builders?? All you can do is ask if they can bet the price. Make sure it is apples to apples.

Go for the DREAM as much as you can. See what part of the DREAM can be built later so that your hardscape is what you want from the get go.

Let us see what you come up with and we will help you spend your money LOL


Kim
 

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