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Thread: Test Results! Test Results! Test Results!

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    jackrogue's Avatar
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    Post Test Results! Test Results! Test Results!

    Test Results! Test Results! Test Results!

    4/29/14
    FC - Free Chlorine: 5.0
    CC - Combined Chlorine: 0
    pH - 7.2
    TA - Total Alkalinity: 150
    CH - Calcium Hardness: 2,250
    CYA - Cyanuric Acid (stabilizer): >100
    Borates - (if you are using borates): NA

    WATER CLEAR, BUT NOT CRYSTAL FOR MANY MONTHS

    CONTINUOUSLY AERATING TO LOWER TA SINCE 4/16/14

    Previous pool service stated in January 2013 that the water had not been drained or refilled since at least 2008.

    A local pool store stated that the pool should be totally drained/refilled (yeah, I know ---- they sell chemicals!) after I submitted test samples in March 2013 --- probably because of the high CH and CYA levels????

    Thank you in advance for your suggestions!
    14,400 GALLONS -- INGROUND 40'X12' GUNITE LAP POOL BUILT 1994 -- EP-4 ECOPUMP VARIABLE SPEED -- TRITON II TR60 SAND FILTER 63 GPM
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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Test Results! Test Results! Test Results!

    If those results are correct, you need a massive amount of water replacement. Also, your FC level is not high enough for your CYA level, especially if CYA is over 100.

    What is your fill water CH level?
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    Test Results! Test Results! Test Results!

    What test kit did you get those results with ?
    Like Jason said if they are correct a good amount of water replacement is in your future and the FC is way low for that CYA level. 😎
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    jackrogue's Avatar
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    Re: Test Results! Test Results! Test Results!

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion View Post
    If those results are correct, you need a massive amount of water replacement. Also, your FC level is not high enough for your CYA level, especially if CYA is over 100.
    Quote Originally Posted by pwrstrk View Post
    What test kit did you get those results with ?
    Like Jason said if they are correct a good amount of water replacement is in your future and the FC is way low for that CYA level.

    What is your fill water CH level?
    I tested and retested with the Taylor TF-100.

    Fill water CH: 150 PPM --- YOWZA!

    How MUCH is "a massive amount of water replacement"? 1/2 of the pool?
    14,400 GALLONS -- INGROUND 40'X12' GUNITE LAP POOL BUILT 1994 -- EP-4 ECOPUMP VARIABLE SPEED -- TRITON II TR60 SAND FILTER 63 GPM
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Test Results! Test Results! Test Results!

    That CH of 2000+ is astronomical. Not sure I have ever seen it that high. So you actually had to use 90 drops? I am wondering if you got a fading end point and the CH is not much lower.
    See: http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...l=1#post203523

    Your fill water is similar to mine ... which is no where near the worst we have seen.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    jackrogue's Avatar
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    Re: Test Results! Test Results! Test Results!

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    That CH of 2000+ is astronomical. Not sure I have ever seen it that high. So you actually had to use 90 drops? I am wondering if you got a fading end point and the CH is not much lower.
    See: http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...l=1#post203523

    Your fill water is similar to mine ... which is no where near the worst we have seen.

    Just retested CH, using the fading end point instructions --- new result: 70 drops = 1,750 --- a little better, but methinks the drain is going to get busy! Do you think a TOTAL pool drain is required?
    14,400 GALLONS -- INGROUND 40'X12' GUNITE LAP POOL BUILT 1994 -- EP-4 ECOPUMP VARIABLE SPEED -- TRITON II TR60 SAND FILTER 63 GPM
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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    Re: Test Results! Test Results! Test Results!

    Take a look at pool math. It will tell you how much water needs to be replaced to reach your goals. http://www.troublefreepool.com/calc.html 😎
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Test Results! Test Results! Test Results!

    I don't think there is any question that near 100% replacement is called for if that CH number is true.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    ComputerGuyInNOLA's Avatar
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    Re: Test Results! Test Results! Test Results!

    Wow! Where to start? I have ever see CH that high. Listen to the experts on this forum. Good luck.
    Gunite/Plaster pool at 13k gallons. All Jandy with CL340 series cartridge filter, 1.5 HP Jandy Stealth pump. Jandy 1400 SWCG and PDA4 controller. Dual waterfalls. Polaris 280. Pool installed August 2012. Southern Louisiana. And lets not forget my trusty TF100 test kit!

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    Charlie_R's Avatar
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    Re: Test Results! Test Results! Test Results!

    Just a little side note: Even though you will probably have to do a 90% drain, it doesn't have to be all at once. you can spread it out over several partial drains. The replacement chemicals would be cheap compared to repairs to the pool shell if something were to go wrong.
    15'x48" 4500 gallon Intex pool, buried 1.5 ft. Pac-Fab Dynamo 3/4 hp pump. Hayward S180T sand filter, bought used. Taylor K-2006 test kit. Rocket mass heater based wood fired pool heater.

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    Re: Test Results! Test Results! Test Results!

    Quote Originally Posted by jackrogue View Post
    Test Results! Test Results! Test Results!

    CONTINUOUSLY AERATING TO LOWER TA SINCE 4/16/14
    Just to be clear, are you adding acid to lower your pH and TA then aerating to raise the pH back up?
    14K Gallon IG Gunite Pool built in 2005, Century Centurion 1 1/2 HP Pump
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    Re: Test Results! Test Results! Test Results!

    Quote Originally Posted by cottielee View Post
    Just to be clear, are you adding acid to lower your pH and TA then aerating to raise the pH back up?
    Affirmative ---- I've consistently added acid to maintain my pH at 7.0-7.2 and have been aerating nonstop since 4/16/14.

    I'll be draining tomorrow!
    14,400 GALLONS -- INGROUND 40'X12' GUNITE LAP POOL BUILT 1994 -- EP-4 ECOPUMP VARIABLE SPEED -- TRITON II TR60 SAND FILTER 63 GPM
    PoolMath

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    Re: Test Results! Test Results! Test Results!

    It would take 400 lbs of Calhypo to get a CH of 1700. It would also give you 2400 ppm FC. That's enough to last for 1200 days at 2ppm loss per day. It amounts to about 1/3 lb per day.

    I guess it's possible but I still wonder what the real story is.
    16k gal, 28'x3.5', Vinyl A/G, 1hp Pentair Dynamo 2-speed Pump, Hayward S160T Sand Filter, Intermatic HB800RCL Digital Timer, Intex 8110 SWG, TF-100 Test Kit, SpeedStir Author: Jesse's Graphical Pool Testing Log

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    jackrogue's Avatar
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    Re: Test Results! Test Results! Test Results!

    Quote Originally Posted by JesseWV View Post
    It would take 400 lbs of Calhypo to get a CH of 1700. It would also give you 2400 ppm FC. That's enough to last for 1200 days at 2ppm loss per day. It amounts to about 1/3 lb per day.

    I guess it's possible but I still wonder what the real story is.
    My guess is that the previous absentee pool owner of 12 years (our house was a vacation rental) entrusted the care of the pool to a service which . . .
    1- performed no obvious pool water tests
    2- relied upon trichlor pucks exclusively
    . . . although I don't know for sure. Suffice to say that I had a "gut feeling" about the pool service after observing him performing his "service" for three months prior to letting him find another "client":
    14,400 GALLONS -- INGROUND 40'X12' GUNITE LAP POOL BUILT 1994 -- EP-4 ECOPUMP VARIABLE SPEED -- TRITON II TR60 SAND FILTER 63 GPM
    PoolMath

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    jackrogue's Avatar
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    Re: Test Results! Test Results! Test Results!

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    Your fill water is similar to mine ... which is no where near the worst we have seen.
    Did some research; "Ground Water in Hawaii" - http://hi.water.usgs.gov/publication...s/fs126-00.pdf states "Freshwater is commonly considered to be water with a chloride concentration less than 250 mg/L, and this concentration represents about 1.3 percent of the chloride concentration of seawater (19,500 mg/L)."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresh_water states "In coastal areas fresh water may contain significant concentrations of salts derived from the sea if windy conditions have lifted drops of seawater into the rain-bearing clouds. This can give rise to elevated concentrations of sodium, chloride, magnesium and sulfate as well as many other compounds in smaller concentrations."

    Wow --- the things we take for granted!
    14,400 GALLONS -- INGROUND 40'X12' GUNITE LAP POOL BUILT 1994 -- EP-4 ECOPUMP VARIABLE SPEED -- TRITON II TR60 SAND FILTER 63 GPM
    PoolMath

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    Re: Test Results! Test Results! Test Results!

    I'm not so sure that that calcium level is accurate. Can you have the water tested for copper, iron, salt (drop test for chloride)and TDS (TDS meter)?

    Are you getting any staining or scaling?

    Did the pool ever have a heater?

    How were the tabs added (skimmer, feeder, floater)?

    Have you asked the former pool person about the chemistry levels and how they got that way?

    I wouldn't drain the pool until you have made sure that the ground water is not high enough to risk floating the pool.

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    jackrogue's Avatar
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    Re: Test Results! Test Results! Test Results!

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesW View Post
    I'm not so sure that that calcium level is accurate. Can you have the water tested for copper, iron, salt (drop test for chloride)and TDS (TDS meter)?
    1- Are you getting any staining or scaling?
    2- Did the pool ever have a heater?
    3- How were the tabs added (skimmer, feeder, floater)?
    4- Have you asked the former pool person about the chemistry levels and how they got that way?
    5- I wouldn't drain the pool until you have made sure that the ground water is not high enough to risk floating the pool.
    I retested CH in the remaining water –- result is the same as before: CH = 1,750
    As I understand it, TDS is the total of everything:
    CH-calcium
    TA-bicarbonates
    CYA
    magnesium
    iron
    copper
    sulfates
    nitrates
    phosphates
    bromine
    organics
    etcetera
    –-- within the water. Since no chemical can reduce high TDS levels, I opted to partially drain/refill with fresh water and to make frequent direct measurements of my CYA level going forward.

    1- Yes, there is significant calcium scaling.
    2- Pool was never heated.
    3- Trichlor pucks were constantly added to skimmer baskets for YEARS.
    4- I have no confidence AT ALL with the former pool service. I'm at home a great deal –- as I stated earlier, I never saw him test the water ONCE within a 3-month period. That's why he was terminated.
    5- High groundwater is not a problem, since our pool was cast into a pulverized lava rock berm with excellent drainage at the rear of our house. I started draining 4/30/14 and finished today.

    I drained 39” of the lap pool's 48” uniform depth = 81%, and the refill process is now underway.
    PoolMath is next.
    Calcium Saturation Index (CSI) is now of particular interest to me!
    14,400 GALLONS -- INGROUND 40'X12' GUNITE LAP POOL BUILT 1994 -- EP-4 ECOPUMP VARIABLE SPEED -- TRITON II TR60 SAND FILTER 63 GPM
    PoolMath

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    Re: Test Results! Test Results! Test Results!

    Ok, normally the tds is not a relevant number. I just wanted to see if it could provide some clues as to whether the calcium was a reasonable number. I have had a few pools where I could not get a good endpoint. There was something interfering with the test. I'm not sure if it was metals or something else.

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    jackrogue's Avatar
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    Re: Test Results! Test Results! Test Results!

    5/2/14 - SLAMin' and jammin' poolside! Just finished today's second SLAM prior to bedtime.

    After today's 81% refill completion and prior to my first SLAM, I backwashed the filter and tested:
    pH: 7.3
    CYA: 55 for Shock FC: 22

    Prior to my second SLAM, I tested:
    FC: 18.5
    CC: 1.0
    . . . and added chlorine to slightly increase Shock FC: 24

    Water is the clearest it has ever been, and I'll be following my SLAM to its utter endpoint . . . . . MAHALO, TFPers!
    14,400 GALLONS -- INGROUND 40'X12' GUNITE LAP POOL BUILT 1994 -- EP-4 ECOPUMP VARIABLE SPEED -- TRITON II TR60 SAND FILTER 63 GPM
    PoolMath

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Test Results! Test Results! Test Results!

    Great progress!
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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