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Thread: Quick Aeration/Lowering TA Questions

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    tucsontico's Avatar
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    Question Quick Aeration/Lowering TA Questions

    I'm currently raising my CH to the recommended range. I want to lower my TA next. Will aeration via my SWG be enough to bring the pH back up after I dose it down to 7.0-7.2 with MA? If so, about how long should I run the SWG to get the pH back up? Will my in-floor cleaner add much to the aeration since it does roil up the water surface a bit. BTW, I do not have a spray bar or a fountain to provide extra aeration.

    Today's K-2006 test results:

    FC-3
    CC-0
    pH-7.8-8.0 (takes 3 drops of acid demand reagent to drop it to 7.6)
    TA-125
    CH-180
    CYA-60
    Salt-3200
    Temp- 72 F

    Thanks for your help!
    19,500 gal, 16' x 38' PebbleTec IG Pool, Built 4/2013; Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3050 3 HP Pump, Pentair Intellichlor IC40 SWG, Pentair IntellipH, Pentair 520 sq ft/150 GPM Cartridge Filter, A&A In-Floor Cleaner, Dolphin Nautilus Plus Robot (aka "Robbie"), Pentair EasyTouch Power Panel w/ Quick Touch 4 Remote Control, Autelis WiFi controller, Clear 12 mil Solar Cover on Presto SS Reel, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Quick Aeration/Lowering TA Questions

    The SWG alone will work, but it will take a while, probably days, to raise the PH. Can you aim a return up so it breaks the surface?
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    tucsontico's Avatar
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    Re: Quick Aeration/Lowering TA Questions

    Thanks! Should I run the SWG 24/7 until the pH comes back to normal?

    I have flush-mount eyeballs and they do not rotate very easily. I will attempt to rotate the 2 returns in the shallow end to break the surface, but I'm not hopeful they'll create much of a stream.

    One more question:
    Reference the acid demand test in the K-2006 kit: Does each drop of acid reagent equate to a 0.1 pH drop? For example, if my water sample shows "about" 7.8 on the pH color chart and I put in 3 drops of acid demand reagent to get it to exactly match 7.4 pH color, can I assume that my water sample's pH was originally 7.7?
    19,500 gal, 16' x 38' PebbleTec IG Pool, Built 4/2013; Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3050 3 HP Pump, Pentair Intellichlor IC40 SWG, Pentair IntellipH, Pentair 520 sq ft/150 GPM Cartridge Filter, A&A In-Floor Cleaner, Dolphin Nautilus Plus Robot (aka "Robbie"), Pentair EasyTouch Power Panel w/ Quick Touch 4 Remote Control, Autelis WiFi controller, Clear 12 mil Solar Cover on Presto SS Reel, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit.

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Quick Aeration/Lowering TA Questions

    Why are you messing with TA? Your current numbers place CSI at 0.15, which is great. If salt is at 3000, it goes to -0.08, which is also just fine. Why mess with it? Just lowering pH with acid will lower TA through normal maintenance.

    And as for adding CH, I imagine that the fill water and normal evaporation in Arizona should take care of that soon enough.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
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    Re: Quick Aeration/Lowering TA Questions

    There is no point in running the SWG 24/7, that will use up the cell life, which isn't worth it.

    The simplest thing you could do would be to switch to lowering the PH to 7.2, instead of 7.5 each time you do lower it.

    Drops in the acid demand test don't have anything to do with what they PH is or how much the PH changes. You count drops to see how much chemical you need to add to change the PH as much as it changes. Say the PH reads 7.8, and you want to lower the PH to 7.2, you add drops until the PH gets to 7.2, then look up that number of drops in a table to see how much acid to add to get the PH down to 7.2. You can do the same thing with PoolMath in most cases. However the acid demand test is more precise for large PH changes and works even if the starting PH is out of range of the PH test.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Quick Aeration/Lowering TA Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by tucsontico View Post
    One more question:
    Reference the acid demand test in the K-2006 kit: Does each drop of acid reagent equate to a 0.1 pH drop? For example, if my water sample shows "about" 7.8 on the pH color chart and I put in 3 drops of acid demand reagent to get it to exactly match 7.4 pH color, can I assume that my water sample's pH was originally 7.7?
    No. They tell you the amount of acid you need to add. You look it up in the manual and find your pool's volume and it tells you how much acid to get to 7.4. It's much easier to just skip the acid demand test and plug your numbers into PoolMath. You should get pretty much the same answer.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    tucsontico's Avatar
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    Re: Quick Aeration/Lowering TA Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320 View Post
    Why are you messing with TA? Your current numbers place CSI at 0.15, which is great. If salt is at 3000, it goes to -0.08, which is also just fine. Why mess with it? Just lowering pH with acid will lower TA through normal maintenance.

    And as for adding CH, I imagine that the fill water and normal evaporation in Arizona should take care of that soon enough.
    I was advised in this thread http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...th-an-IC40-SWG to bring the CH up and drop the TA down. I am currently adjusting my pool water balance as advised.

    BTW, I had to drain 2/3 of my water this spring due to excessively high CYA (120+). My fill water, seems to be "softer" this year than last year (when the pool was initially filled) with a CH of 150.
    19,500 gal, 16' x 38' PebbleTec IG Pool, Built 4/2013; Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3050 3 HP Pump, Pentair Intellichlor IC40 SWG, Pentair IntellipH, Pentair 520 sq ft/150 GPM Cartridge Filter, A&A In-Floor Cleaner, Dolphin Nautilus Plus Robot (aka "Robbie"), Pentair EasyTouch Power Panel w/ Quick Touch 4 Remote Control, Autelis WiFi controller, Clear 12 mil Solar Cover on Presto SS Reel, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit.

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    Re: Quick Aeration/Lowering TA Questions

    Well, it is not a cut and dry answer. IF you are going to lower the TA, then you should raise the CH so the CSI does not get too low. Or, you could just leave things as they are and keep the pH a little higher to maintain a reasonable CSI.

    FYI, I replaced most of my water March 2013 and my CH was 130ppm, one year later it is 280ppm just through evaporation and top-off water. I figure I can go about 2 more years before I will have to consider replacing water again to get the CH back down. If I had added CH last year, then it would appear I would have to drain and refill every 2 years.

    EDIT: I might see if I can harvest some of the water run-off from my roof during monsoons to see it I can keep the CH rise a little slower.
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    Re: Quick Aeration/Lowering TA Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion View Post
    There is no point in running the SWG 24/7, that will use up the cell life, which isn't worth it.

    The simplest thing you could do would be to switch to lowering the PH to 7.2, instead of 7.5 each time you do lower it.

    Drops in the acid demand test don't have anything to do with what they PH is or how much the PH changes. You count drops to see how much chemical you need to add to change the PH as much as it changes. Say the PH reads 7.8, and you want to lower the PH to 7.2, you add drops until the PH gets to 7.2, then look up that number of drops in a table to see how much acid to add to get the PH down to 7.2. You can do the same thing with PoolMath in most cases. However the acid demand test is more precise for large PH changes and works even if the starting PH is out of range of the PH test.
    Thanks. I understand the Taylor tables for the acid demand and I do use the PoolMath calc to double check my water balance. I was just curious if the number of drops might somehow equate to the pH color chart to more accurately tell what your pH really is. I'm probably trying too hard to get the chemistry exact!
    19,500 gal, 16' x 38' PebbleTec IG Pool, Built 4/2013; Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3050 3 HP Pump, Pentair Intellichlor IC40 SWG, Pentair IntellipH, Pentair 520 sq ft/150 GPM Cartridge Filter, A&A In-Floor Cleaner, Dolphin Nautilus Plus Robot (aka "Robbie"), Pentair EasyTouch Power Panel w/ Quick Touch 4 Remote Control, Autelis WiFi controller, Clear 12 mil Solar Cover on Presto SS Reel, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit.

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    tucsontico's Avatar
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    Re: Quick Aeration/Lowering TA Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    Well, it is not a cut and dry answer. IF you are going to lower the TA, then you should raise the CH so the CSI does not get too low. Or, you could just leave things as they are and keep the pH a little higher to maintain a reasonable CSI.

    FYI, I replaced most of my water March 2013 and my CH was 130ppm, one year later it is 280ppm just through evaporation and top-off water. I figure I can go about 2 more years before I will have to consider replacing water again to get the CH back down. If I had added CH last year, then it would appear I would have to drain and refill every 2 years.

    EDIT: I might see if I can harvest some of the water run-off from my roof during monsoons to see it I can keep the CH rise a little slower.

    Well, I've already added 14 lbs of calcium chloride to raise the CH about 80 ppm (per the PoolCalc). So, I guess I'm committed to bringing the TA down now as well. I was following advice from this thread: http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...th-an-IC40-SWG.

    BTW, I have a rainwater harvest barrel (865 gal) for my drip irrigation system. A decent approximation of how much water runs off your roof is: 1000 sq ft of roof and 1 inch of rain equals nearly 1000 gallons. My barrel filled in two small monsoon storms last summer.
    19,500 gal, 16' x 38' PebbleTec IG Pool, Built 4/2013; Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3050 3 HP Pump, Pentair Intellichlor IC40 SWG, Pentair IntellipH, Pentair 520 sq ft/150 GPM Cartridge Filter, A&A In-Floor Cleaner, Dolphin Nautilus Plus Robot (aka "Robbie"), Pentair EasyTouch Power Panel w/ Quick Touch 4 Remote Control, Autelis WiFi controller, Clear 12 mil Solar Cover on Presto SS Reel, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit.

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