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Thread: Dropping ph ? and hoping to treat staining (test results included)

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    Dropping ph ? and hoping to treat staining (test results included)

    Hello TFP!

    We are just getting our fiberglass pool going this year and have let of all chemical levels just drop completely. We ran our pump all winter often and keep the pool fairly clean but have turned the SWG off and need to treat for some faint staining.

    Tested the water yesterday- our numbers are:
    TC-0
    FC-0
    Ph-7.8
    TA-50
    CH-70
    CYA-25
    I'm sure the salt is at 0 too.
    (Not sure how relevant but I tested with my T100 kit however it has oldish chemicals)

    While our numbers are low- I want to remove the staining from the pool walls. We used a Vit C tablet last fall to determine that they are Iron and have waited until now to work on the stains. They are pretty faint but are visible to me.

    How would you recommend that we start? Do I need to drop the Ph? I have a jug or two of Ph Down from last season if necessary.

    What chemicals would be best? What chemical adding order would I work on regaining control over the chemical balance?

    FYI-I do NOT use any Borax- our dogs drink from the pool on occasion.

    Thank you for any guidance and suggestions!
    13 x 29 IG fiberglass pool-
    Waterways pump-Jandy Cartridge filter-Salt system- TF100 Test Kit-

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Dropping ph ? and hoping to treat staining (test results included)

    It sounds like you should do an AA treatment, see this post for details on how to do that.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Ready to start Ascorbic Acid Treatment- need advice pls

    I ordered my ascorbic acid and it just arrived. I am ready to start using it to remove my metal staining from a fiberglass pool. I do not have the Jack's Magic- the Purple Stuff yet. I thought I'd be able to pick it up in town, however it doesn't seem that any pool stores carry it locally. My Jack's will be here sometime between June 30th and July 1st. Is that too long to wait?

    Should I wait on using my AA until I have the Jack's in hand? I have a 10,000 gallon pool and general metal discoloration-not super bad but I want to have company and have my pool look nice. The Vit. C tablets worked great when we tried them!

    My chlorine is very low- I don't have today's numbers yet. Last I checked the CYA was zero. Everything is low in preparation for this stain removal.

    Can we use the AA and then wait a few days until my Jack's arrives or should I hold off on starting the process? Is there anything else that I can use to sequester the metals that is really good? Is it safe to swim with the AA in the water?

    Thank you! I'm eager to get started.
    13 x 29 IG fiberglass pool-
    Waterways pump-Jandy Cartridge filter-Salt system- TF100 Test Kit-

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    Re: Dropping ph ? and hoping to treat staining (test results included)

    Thank you Jason! I appreciate your response. I am going to try the AA treatment now.
    13 x 29 IG fiberglass pool-
    Waterways pump-Jandy Cartridge filter-Salt system- TF100 Test Kit-

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    Re: Ready to start Ascorbic Acid Treatment- need advice pls

    One more thing- after I do the AA and add whatever sequestering agent that you guys suggest- what do I use to keep this staining from happening again?

    I have a cartridge filter so I can't backwash. Should I remove the filter and hose it out when I am finished with the metal treatment or don't I need to do anything at all?

    Can my kids swim with the Jacks in the pool? It mentions waiting 15 minutes- is that accurate? Thank you again!
    13 x 29 IG fiberglass pool-
    Waterways pump-Jandy Cartridge filter-Salt system- TF100 Test Kit-

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Dropping ph ? and hoping to treat staining (test results included)

    Once you start an AA treatment, you can't add chlorine until the sequestrant has been in for 24 hours. You really don't want to wait any longer than 24 hours, so starting without sequestrant is not a good idea.

    If the pool clouds up, clean the filter when it clears. This may or may not happen.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Dropping ph ? and hoping to treat staining (test results included)

    Thank you again Jason. I guess I better wait until closer to when the Jack's arrives next week. Is there another product that is equally good? In another thread ( http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...erant-question ) someone mentioned a product from Walmart- HTH-Metal Out. Is that a good product or should I wait?


    PS- thank you for combining my threads. I didn't realize that I hadn't responded on the previous post until today. I happened to see it after I posted my new questions. Thanks!

    - - - Updated - - -

    We also have a new Leslie's Store here in town. I haven't visited it yet. Would anything they sell for metals work ok?
    13 x 29 IG fiberglass pool-
    Waterways pump-Jandy Cartridge filter-Salt system- TF100 Test Kit-

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Dropping ph ? and hoping to treat staining (test results included)

    Leslie's is highly variable. They tend to push Metal Free which is something we recommend staying away from. But sometimes they have other choices available.

    HTH Metal Out has worked out well for others, though there have been some worries about them possibly changing the formulation.

    Sequestrants based on HEDP, phosphonic acid, or phosphonic acid derivatives are the most effective. ProTeam's Metal Magic and Jack's Magic The Pink Stuff (regular), The Blue Stuff (fresh plaster), and The Purple Stuff (salt) are some of the top sequestrants. You can also find many other brands with similar active ingredients, some of which are noticeably less expensive.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Dropping ph ? and hoping to treat staining (test results included)

    Thank you for all your help Jason! I appreciate you taking the time to help me.
    13 x 29 IG fiberglass pool-
    Waterways pump-Jandy Cartridge filter-Salt system- TF100 Test Kit-

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    Re: Dropping ph ? and hoping to treat staining (test results included)

    Hello, I did the AA treatment a couple of days ago.(Sunday) I did not use an algaecide but am watching it closely.

    Amazing!! Thank you!

    I need some further advice please-

    I added the whole bottle of The Purple Stuff after the stains lifted. Pool looks like new!!

    Now I'm stuck though. I've been circulating the pool for days- adding small amounts of bleach and can't get my chlorine to hold. I'm sure when the sun hits the water it is burning off. I'm not clear on how much to add at a time and don't want to cause restraining. Should I add anything else right now? Is it a concern that my CYA is zero?

    It is 95+ degrees here- pool water is eighty something degrees- cools down overnight and then goes back up when the sun hits. Pool is crystal clear- looks great.

    We've vacuumed it twice since the AA treatment due to small particles or dirt or something settling on the bottom. I have a cartridge filter. Should I hose it out?

    Should my SWG be off? I believe it is running- however- very low-30% or so.


    OUR NUMBERS:
    CL-0
    PH-7.2-7.3
    TC-0
    FC-0
    CC-0
    TA-60
    CH-100 (this is actually up from the day before when it read 80)
    CYA-0 (and has been at zero for a couple of weeks at least)

    I'd appreciate any advice on where to go from here and if I need to add anything other than bleach. I'm going to go out and buy a few more jugs of bleach right now.

    FYI-Our dogs occasionally drink from the pool so we don't use Borax.

    Thank you so much!
    Last edited by moppymo; 07-09-2014 at 09:44 AM. Reason: Added info.
    13 x 29 IG fiberglass pool-
    Waterways pump-Jandy Cartridge filter-Salt system- TF100 Test Kit-

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    Re: Dropping ph ? and hoping to treat staining (test results included)

    You won't be able to hold the chlorine without the CYA. I believe 70 is the target for a salt system.
    26' X 52" Intex Ultra Frame. Intex Sand Filter
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    You can lead a horse to (clear) water, but you can't force him to swim in it!

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    Re: Dropping ph ? and hoping to treat staining (test results included)

    Thank you PAGirl!

    So would I add stabilizer before the chlorine?

    Yes, I try to hold it between 70-80 per some posting from here on TFP.
    13 x 29 IG fiberglass pool-
    Waterways pump-Jandy Cartridge filter-Salt system- TF100 Test Kit-

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    Re: Dropping ph ? and hoping to treat staining (test results included)

    Most recommend putting it in a sock and hanging it, then squeezing it now and then to help it along. Once it dissolves it will be effective, but not show up on the test for about a week.
    26' X 52" Intex Ultra Frame. Intex Sand Filter
    26' X 52 Intex Ultra Frame Install
    You can lead a horse to (clear) water, but you can't force him to swim in it!

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    Re: Dropping ph ? and hoping to treat staining (test results included)

    Thank you PAGirl.

    So, can I then add the chlorine and how long should I wait? When they say add it slowly- how slowly is slowly? When do I add other chemicals or will they start to balance themselves as my chlorine goes up?

    Oh, and do I need to order more The Purple Stuff and continue to add it now on a regular basis because I have those metals sequestered?
    Last edited by moppymo; 07-09-2014 at 10:28 AM. Reason: Another question
    13 x 29 IG fiberglass pool-
    Waterways pump-Jandy Cartridge filter-Salt system- TF100 Test Kit-

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Dropping ph ? and hoping to treat staining (test results included)

    Quote Originally Posted by moppymo View Post
    Thank you PAGirl.

    So, can I then add the chlorine and how long should I wait? When they say add it slowly- how slowly is slowly? When do I add other chemicals or will they start to balance themselves as my chlorine goes up?
    You can add bleach immediately after setting the CYA sock in the pool. It could take days to dissolve completely and you can't wait for that.

    Bleach and acid, wait 30 minutes between additions. Just use your best guess at how much CYA is in the water based on how much has dissolved and dose accordingly. If you set up poolmath using the box at the bottom, it will fill in the suggested levels when you input a CYA value.

    Adding slowly means a slow enough stream so it doesn't glug. Pour it right in front of a return. You will see the yellow cloud spread out and fade away. That's what you want - thorough mixing and rapid dispersion.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
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    Re: Dropping ph ? and hoping to treat staining (test results included)

    Hi Richard,
    Thank you for taking the time to advise me. I'm going to go add some bleach right now!
    Last edited by moppymo; 07-09-2014 at 05:00 PM. Reason: I can't spell. ;)
    13 x 29 IG fiberglass pool-
    Waterways pump-Jandy Cartridge filter-Salt system- TF100 Test Kit-

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