Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Cup mounting height for deep end ladder?

  1. Back To Top    #1

    steveg_nh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Southern NH
    Posts
    825

    Cup mounting height for deep end ladder?

    I can't find any paperwork to give to my patio installer, showing what height the swim ladder should be installed at. He's getting ready to pout the foundation for the coping, and what's to set the cups, but we aren't sure what the recommended height is off the pool wall, deck height to top step, etc.

    Can anyone provide any guidance?

    Thanks.
    24'x40' 25k gal Imperial Mountain Pond IGP, full 28 mil VynAll Ocean Breakers liner. All Hayward system: 140k BTU HeatPro heat pump, 3/4HP single speed TriStar 2" Pump, DE6020 filter, AquaPlus Automation/Salt Chlorination, remote controls, ColorLogic 4.0 lighting. Polaris 280 w/PB4-60 BP. TF100 & K1766 test kits. Rinox Palazzo pavers and Spherik coping. Pool installed 9/2013, project completed 6/16/14.

  2. Back To Top    #2

    In the Industry

    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sebring, Florida
    Posts
    30,077

    Re: Cup mounting height for deep end ladder?

    All of the ladders I have seen fix their own height by mounting in the decking. The lower supports rest on the pool wall. In other words, you cannot adjust the "height" of the ladder. Is that what you are asking?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  3. Back To Top    #3

    steveg_nh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Southern NH
    Posts
    825

    Re: Cup mounting height for deep end ladder?

    Not really. When mounting the cups that the ladder goes into, as part of pool construction, into concrete below the deck (or in the deck), at what height should they be?
    24'x40' 25k gal Imperial Mountain Pond IGP, full 28 mil VynAll Ocean Breakers liner. All Hayward system: 140k BTU HeatPro heat pump, 3/4HP single speed TriStar 2" Pump, DE6020 filter, AquaPlus Automation/Salt Chlorination, remote controls, ColorLogic 4.0 lighting. Polaris 280 w/PB4-60 BP. TF100 & K1766 test kits. Rinox Palazzo pavers and Spherik coping. Pool installed 9/2013, project completed 6/16/14.

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    400

    Re: Cup mounting height for deep end ladder?

    Quote Originally Posted by steveg_nh View Post
    Not really. When mounting the cups that the ladder goes into, as part of pool construction, into concrete below the deck (or in the deck), at what height should they be?
    The cups need to be flush with the concrete (or deck). When you put the ladder in, the chrome covers then lay flat on the concrete to cover the cups and bolts. Really no measuring needed, again they have to be flush with the concrete deck.
    DIY 18x36 IG Vinyl Rectangle with 2 foot radius; Steel Walls. 8' steps w/t 2 step jets; 2 MD, 1 Skimmer, 2 returns; Hayward Pro Series 24 Inch 300# Sand Pool ; Hayward color logic 4.0 LED light; 2" PVC pipe 4 Jandy Valves, Hayward PL-P-4, SWCG

  5. Back To Top    #5
    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Central Minnesota
    Posts
    5,079

    Re: Cup mounting height for deep end ladder?



    Is this the style you're talking about? If so, the cups should be flush or just below flush with the finished height of the decking. The flange covers create the finished look and rest against the deck as long as the cups aren't too high.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

  6. Back To Top    #6

    steveg_nh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Southern NH
    Posts
    825

    Re: Cup mounting height for deep end ladder?

    Yes, thanks! My neighbors are WAY below grade....which is why I was worried I wasn't sure how to set them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thanks a ton by the way!

    - - - Updated - - -

    This begs me to ask one more question...so what's the typical height of that top step, from the deck usually?
    24'x40' 25k gal Imperial Mountain Pond IGP, full 28 mil VynAll Ocean Breakers liner. All Hayward system: 140k BTU HeatPro heat pump, 3/4HP single speed TriStar 2" Pump, DE6020 filter, AquaPlus Automation/Salt Chlorination, remote controls, ColorLogic 4.0 lighting. Polaris 280 w/PB4-60 BP. TF100 & K1766 test kits. Rinox Palazzo pavers and Spherik coping. Pool installed 9/2013, project completed 6/16/14.

  7. Back To Top    #7

    In the Industry

    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sebring, Florida
    Posts
    30,077

    Re: Cup mounting height for deep end ladder?

    Sorry I was so thick-headed and couldn't understand the question......it makes perfect sense to me now!
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  8. Back To Top    #8

    steveg_nh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Southern NH
    Posts
    825

    Re: Cup mounting height for deep end ladder?

    LOL. Thanks. But we do have one more question. How can the cup be flush with the deck (which will be pavers) AND fully encased in concrete? The concrete pad is below, the pavers, and the pavers are 3 1/8" thick. If the cup is even with the finsihed grade, only about 1" of cup is in the concrete which is certainly not enough. If the entire cup is in the concrete footing below the pavers, it's 3 1/8" below the finish grade. I'm missing something.
    24'x40' 25k gal Imperial Mountain Pond IGP, full 28 mil VynAll Ocean Breakers liner. All Hayward system: 140k BTU HeatPro heat pump, 3/4HP single speed TriStar 2" Pump, DE6020 filter, AquaPlus Automation/Salt Chlorination, remote controls, ColorLogic 4.0 lighting. Polaris 280 w/PB4-60 BP. TF100 & K1766 test kits. Rinox Palazzo pavers and Spherik coping. Pool installed 9/2013, project completed 6/16/14.

  9. Back To Top    #9
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    37,389

    Re: Cup mounting height for deep end ladder?

    With pavers over concrete, I would think (again this is opinion with no experience) you would want the cup imbedded in the concrete to be secure, then the pavers could be put over the concrete and cup and then the flange could sit on top of the pavers for a finished look.

    I am not sure if there is a code related to the relative height of the top step to the top of the deck or not.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  10. Back To Top    #10

    steveg_nh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Southern NH
    Posts
    825

    Re: Cup mounting height for deep end ladder?

    The cup and the flange could sit on the pavers? Not following that, if the cup is in the concrete. What the patio builder is thinking, is the cup 90% in the concrete below the pavers. Maybe the top 1/2" isn't. Then the paver sits on top of the concrete. So when viewing the cup from the paver, it's recessed about 3" below the paver surface. The flange would cover the whole around the rail...this creates a top step of about 9.5-10" to the water level. My steps on the later, as is, are 9" apart.
    24'x40' 25k gal Imperial Mountain Pond IGP, full 28 mil VynAll Ocean Breakers liner. All Hayward system: 140k BTU HeatPro heat pump, 3/4HP single speed TriStar 2" Pump, DE6020 filter, AquaPlus Automation/Salt Chlorination, remote controls, ColorLogic 4.0 lighting. Polaris 280 w/PB4-60 BP. TF100 & K1766 test kits. Rinox Palazzo pavers and Spherik coping. Pool installed 9/2013, project completed 6/16/14.

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    400

    Re: Cup mounting height for deep end ladder?

    Quote Originally Posted by steveg_nh View Post
    The cup and the flange could sit on the pavers? Not following that, if the cup is in the concrete. What the patio builder is thinking, is the cup 90% in the concrete below the pavers. Maybe the top 1/2" isn't. Then the paver sits on top of the concrete. So when viewing the cup from the paver, it's recessed about 3" below the paver surface. The flange would cover the whole around the rail...this creates a top step of about 9.5-10" to the water level. My steps on the later, as is, are 9" apart.
    Your setup is exactly like mine. We embedded the cups into the concrete, but held them up up some a little short of the height of the paver.
    DIY 18x36 IG Vinyl Rectangle with 2 foot radius; Steel Walls. 8' steps w/t 2 step jets; 2 MD, 1 Skimmer, 2 returns; Hayward Pro Series 24 Inch 300# Sand Pool ; Hayward color logic 4.0 LED light; 2" PVC pipe 4 Jandy Valves, Hayward PL-P-4, SWCG

  12. Back To Top    #12


    TFP Guide

    bmoreswim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Central MD
    Posts
    3,284

    Re: Cup mounting height for deep end ladder?

    I was thinking that there might be an alternate style of mounting cup for this situation, versus the one used for a concrete-to-grade deck surface. It would be an easy thing for the manufacturer to make, it would just have a longer base but the cup depth for the pipes to drop in would only be partially down the cup. I would inquire of the ladder manufacturer to see if one is available. Otherwise, you will have a first step into the water that is a few inches more than it would otherwise be (and the top of the railings will be that much lower also), though maybe not a big deal either.
    18'x38' Rectangle (3'-8 1/2' deep w/ diving board) - 27K gal. w/ gray plaster
    Hayward equipment (cartridge filter, 2-speed pump, SWCG, automation) View Our Build
    Coverstar automatic pool cover | StoneMakers concrete retaining wall and decking
    Spring 2013 Build | Dolphin Active 20 robot cleaner | Support TFP!

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    400

    Re: Cup mounting height for deep end ladder?

    Quote Originally Posted by bmoreswim View Post
    I was thinking that there might be an alternate style of mounting cup for this situation, versus the one used for a concrete-to-grade deck surface. It would be an easy thing for the manufacturer to make, it would just have a longer base but the cup depth for the pipes to drop in would only be partially down the cup. I would inquire of the ladder manufacturer to see if one is available. Otherwise, you will have a first step into the water that is a few inches more than it would otherwise be (and the top of the railings will be that much lower also), though maybe not a big deal either.
    Our first step is about an inch more into the water, but we never notice it. We did not raise our cups to the top of the paver, just raised them a slight amount about an 1".
    DIY 18x36 IG Vinyl Rectangle with 2 foot radius; Steel Walls. 8' steps w/t 2 step jets; 2 MD, 1 Skimmer, 2 returns; Hayward Pro Series 24 Inch 300# Sand Pool ; Hayward color logic 4.0 LED light; 2" PVC pipe 4 Jandy Valves, Hayward PL-P-4, SWCG

  14. Back To Top    #14

    steveg_nh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Southern NH
    Posts
    825

    Re: Cup mounting height for deep end ladder?

    I was told you can get longer cups, but I can't find any. My pool builder used some type of plastic cups that feel very strong, that he said were resistant to corrosion since this is a salt system. I believe him, given that he didn't cut any corners anywhere else. My neighbors pool is done like we're talking about too - his cups are just about at the bottom edge of the paver, so about 3" below finish grade. Am i way overthinking this? LOL
    24'x40' 25k gal Imperial Mountain Pond IGP, full 28 mil VynAll Ocean Breakers liner. All Hayward system: 140k BTU HeatPro heat pump, 3/4HP single speed TriStar 2" Pump, DE6020 filter, AquaPlus Automation/Salt Chlorination, remote controls, ColorLogic 4.0 lighting. Polaris 280 w/PB4-60 BP. TF100 & K1766 test kits. Rinox Palazzo pavers and Spherik coping. Pool installed 9/2013, project completed 6/16/14.

  15. Back To Top    #15


    TFP Guide

    bmoreswim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Central MD
    Posts
    3,284

    Re: Cup mounting height for deep end ladder?

    Quote Originally Posted by steveg_nh View Post
    Am i way overthinking this? LOL
    Probably but who doesn't do that on at least some aspects of their build! For me I wish it was just some.

    As mentioned above, the difference in step height probably won't make any real-world difference. The corrosion resistance is a key for sure.
    18'x38' Rectangle (3'-8 1/2' deep w/ diving board) - 27K gal. w/ gray plaster
    Hayward equipment (cartridge filter, 2-speed pump, SWCG, automation) View Our Build
    Coverstar automatic pool cover | StoneMakers concrete retaining wall and decking
    Spring 2013 Build | Dolphin Active 20 robot cleaner | Support TFP!

  16. Back To Top    #16

    steveg_nh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Southern NH
    Posts
    825

    Re: Cup mounting height for deep end ladder?

    Thank all. We're going with the cups fully in concrete, just below the pavers. It's a 2.5" difference. The builder is pouring one heck of a pad for the railings and ladder though. And he's installed drain tubes on all the cups so it any way can drain out of them. Seriously a great job!
    24'x40' 25k gal Imperial Mountain Pond IGP, full 28 mil VynAll Ocean Breakers liner. All Hayward system: 140k BTU HeatPro heat pump, 3/4HP single speed TriStar 2" Pump, DE6020 filter, AquaPlus Automation/Salt Chlorination, remote controls, ColorLogic 4.0 lighting. Polaris 280 w/PB4-60 BP. TF100 & K1766 test kits. Rinox Palazzo pavers and Spherik coping. Pool installed 9/2013, project completed 6/16/14.

  17. Back To Top    #17

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    400

    Re: Cup mounting height for deep end ladder?

    With regards to the cups. I also do two additional things.

    1. I pump marine lube into the cups prior to putting ladder in.

    2. I caulk with outdoor clear caulk around the stop after ladder is in.

    The caulk helps keep water out, and the lube makes it easier to get the ladder out in the fall.
    DIY 18x36 IG Vinyl Rectangle with 2 foot radius; Steel Walls. 8' steps w/t 2 step jets; 2 MD, 1 Skimmer, 2 returns; Hayward Pro Series 24 Inch 300# Sand Pool ; Hayward color logic 4.0 LED light; 2" PVC pipe 4 Jandy Valves, Hayward PL-P-4, SWCG

  18. Back To Top    #18

    steveg_nh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Southern NH
    Posts
    825

    Re: Cup mounting height for deep end ladder?

    Thanks. They put drain tubes in so they were sure the cups could drain below the cement pad.
    24'x40' 25k gal Imperial Mountain Pond IGP, full 28 mil VynAll Ocean Breakers liner. All Hayward system: 140k BTU HeatPro heat pump, 3/4HP single speed TriStar 2" Pump, DE6020 filter, AquaPlus Automation/Salt Chlorination, remote controls, ColorLogic 4.0 lighting. Polaris 280 w/PB4-60 BP. TF100 & K1766 test kits. Rinox Palazzo pavers and Spherik coping. Pool installed 9/2013, project completed 6/16/14.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •