Just opened, chemistry readings coming soon - I'm gonna need some help. :)

[steveg_nh]

Just opened the pool. Pool company added liquid shock and something for alkalinity. Will test everything else later with my kit. He also talked about checking my calcium levels, something not often done. I'll have to look into that.

But for being closed up since Oct 15, this is what it looked like 20 min after pulling the cover this morning. Not bad! Paver patio construction starts Monday.

 

[JasonLion]

Looks wonderful.

Bring on the questions!

 

[Casey]

Looks good!

 

[steveg_nh]

Ok, used my TFT-100 kit. A few things to set the baseline. Kit bought late last year, around mid Septmeber, so I assume agents are all good. I read they last a year easy. Also, this is a SWG based pool. And lastly, yesterday, about 7 gallons of liquid shock were added by pool builder, and some stuff for alkalinity. More details in signature on pool.

A couple of questons on doing the tests though:

1. How explicitly should you read them, meaning literally? If one step says "mix" and another doesn't, do you not "mix" every time you add a drop? When calculating Alkaline I wonder if I should not have had it mixing as I added the agent to turn it from green to red (I think it's that test)... and

2. Is it the immediate moment (# of drops) where you see the color change that you take your reading (even if the original color is still present - mixing wasn't stated in directions) vs when it's turned color fully, even if it's very lightly the required color?

Here's my results:

FC: 0-0.5 (yikes!) - (I tried doing a FAS-DPD test but once I realized cholrine was 0, I just measured FC)
Alk: 130
Calcium: 130
CYA: 30-40
Ph: 7.5

Obviously I need to get the chlorine and CYA up.

For the chlorine, pool math says just about 1.5 gallons of Bleach. As in, regular household bleach from walmart? Not a special chlorine stuff from the pool store? (Just making sure!). I thought with a SWG you shouldn't use regular bleach.

Thank you very much for any assistance/guidance.

 

[JasonLion]

1) You need to mix more or less constantly while in the counting drops stage. Short pauses are fine but you need to mix some between drops at a minimum. The timing of mixing when adding the dye or other reagents at the beginning is less crucial, mixing needs to happen but it doesn't have to happen on each drop.

2) You continue adding drops as long as the color continues changing. The final drop, which does not change the color any further, does not count.

Yes, regular household bleach. Look for ones where the percentage is labeled as 8.25%, as they are usually a better valve (and less carrying). Avoid scents or special features, you want regular plain bleach. You can also use liquid chlorine from the pool store, which is the same chemical at a different concentration. In some areas pool stores don't carry liquid chlorine at all, in other areas they can be a better, or worse, value than grocery stores.

With a SWG you don't normally need to add chlorine manually, but there are occasions when doing so is important. FC going to zero is one of the times when you should add chlorine manually.

 

[Richard320]

Answer #1: mix, mix, mix. After every drop. If you use a speedstir, it's being stirred continuously.
Answer #2: You add drops until the color doesn't change any more, then deduct the last one. It's actually pretty neat with the speedstir going, especially on the TA test. Right where the drop hits it changes to pinkish, then it fades to grey and spreads, and then the whole thing turns green again. Eventually it will turn greyish, then pinkish, and sometimes one more drop puts it to Barbie Pink. And any more drops do nothing.

Comment#1: Raise Chlorine, yes. Raise CYA, not yet. If you need to SLAM, and with the speed you consumed the liquid shock I'd say you do, it's much easier at a lower CYA level. Right now you're about perfect for that.
Comment#2 : You don't need to raise CH because you have a vinyl liner. You don't need to worry about leaching Calcium out of the walls. You could raise it if you get foaming, or you could use Cal-hypo to chlorinate until CH gets into the 200s and switch to bleach.

Time to get back to Pool School for a refresher course!

 

[steveg_nh]

Thanks guys. So a couple of things. I do have a SpeedStir.

So I'll use that all the time now wen adding drops.

As for slamming I thought was only if algae is present?

And lastly it CAN use household bleach instead of liquid shock with a SwG? Sounds like it. I don't know why I thought I couldn't. I thought to read it somewhere. My SwG isn't running yet due to low temp. And of the liquid shock we added 4 bottles were older and we think a bit weaker.

Should I just work on getting the chlorine to the right spot first by adding the bleach?

Thank you again.

 

[JasonLion]

Yep, raise the FC level first. Then give it an hour to mix in and test the level again. If it comes out near what you were aiming for everything is good.

You probably don't need to SLAM, assuming the water looks good and the chlorine doesn't all vanish in the first hour. But raising FC up from zero is best done manually. When everything is in balance the SWG can take over.

Yep, regular household bleach. Some pool people bad mouth bleach because you aren't buying it from them, so they lose their commission/percentage.

 

[Richard320]

Thanks guys. So a couple of things. I do have a SpeedStir.

So I'll use that all the time now wen adding drops.

As for slamming I thought was only if algae is present?

And lastly it CAN use household bleach instead of liquid shock with a SwG? Sounds like it. I don't know why I thought I couldn't. I thought to read it somewhere. My SwG isn't running yet due to low temp. And of the liquid shock we added 4 bottles were older and we think a bit weaker.

Should I just work on getting the chlorine to the right spot first by adding the bleach?

Thank you again.

"Liquid Shock," "Bleach," "Chlorinating Liquid," it's all the same stuff. Sodium Hypochlorite, just different concentrations. Plain Chlorox (DO NOT use any of the scented or splashless varieties) is 8.25%. House brands can be anywhere from 1.5% to 8.25%. If they're ashamed to brag about their strength, you don't want it. Stuff sold for pools is usually 10 or 12.5%. The higher the concentration, the faster it breaks down and loses strength, so look closely at the packaging. If the boxes look old and dusty, skip it. You want fresh stuff.

SLAMming is done any time the water shows high CC, or has algae. You show no CC because there is no FC to react with anything and create it. You don't have to SLAM. If you don't need it but you SLAM anyway, it just means you'll pass all three tests the first day and be done with it in record time!

You should try to get the pool balanced and clear using bleach before you start messing with salt and starting the SWG. It can't generate enough FC fast enough to get you where you want to be, but it should be able to maintain the levels no problem.

If you take it up to SLAM and the water is clear, there's no CC, and you don't lose any during darkness, you're ready for the next phase. Salt. Maintain FC using bleach until the water is warm enough to start the SWG, then you can raise CYA to recommended levels and play around with SWG percentages. You got the primo test kit and the speedstir, it'll be a piece of cake to keep the water sparkling this year.

 

[steveg_nh]

Ok off to buy 2 gallons of Clorox! More soon.

 

[kimkats]

You can also get the store brands. Just make sure to look at the % Walmart is quite often the best price depending on the area. Some people have found the pool store has the best price. You just need to shop your area.

Here I get mine at the ACE Hardware up the road. It is 11%. I get 7.5 gals. for $16. I use 5 cups each day during the summer. I use less when it is cooler.

I test every other day during the summer. I tested every day until I learned my pool. I do test after a big rain just to be on the safe side. My husband loves to watch me test and be a "mad scientist" LOL

 

[steveg_nh]

Why are the recommended levels different with "bleach" vs "SWG" on this table? Bleach meaning a manual chlorine pool?

http://www.troublefreepool.com/content/134-recommended-levels

 

[Smykowski]

Yes.

SWG numbers are different because they add the FC at a lower rate but more constantly.

 

[aussieta]

and you will need salt for the SWG to work

 

[steveg_nh]

Yup. Surprisingly, my salt looks pretty good. May need 1 bag or so, which I have.

I just added 150 oz of 8.25% bleach, No phosphates and unscented. I'll check the chlorine level in a few hrs. I must admit, as I was pouring the bleach in (being careful not to splash), I was worried that splashes would bleach white spots in the liner. The pool company just dumped it in without regard. I assume too that liquid going in dissolved much faster and never really "hits" bottom in one place like anything granular. Just trying to take care of my new pool.

Edit: Kind of nervous now. The bleach bottle, while it did not say it had a scent, did no explicitly say it was unscented. The others all said what scent they had. I'm worried this could possibly not be pure unscented. I searched and read the label, and the label says its for laundry and household use. Seems that all scented bleaches are not listed "for household use". Wish it said it outright! Any way to know for sure if you can't get a list of inactive ingredients to put my mind at ease?

 

[Smykowski]

What brand was it? Can you post a picture of the bottle?

 

[steveg_nh]

White Cloud, from Walmart. It was one of the few that actually listed the % of the bleach. Same as Walmart brand from what I can tell too. This label has the same EPA registration number (found this online) as the bottles I bought.

 

[Smykowski]

I think you're good.

 

[steveg_nh]

How would I know otherwise? Foaming?

 

[steveg_nh]

New readings

So Cl is now 5. That was easy! Maybe a touch too much but that's just with the t1000 daily test kit. I'll do another full test tomorrow at some point. Ph is still 7.5.