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Thread: Just opened, chemistry readings coming soon - I'm gonna need some help. :)

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    steveg_nh's Avatar
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    Just opened, chemistry readings coming soon - I'm gonna need some help. :)

    Just opened the pool. Pool company added liquid shock and something for alkalinity. Will test everything else later with my kit. He also talked about checking my calcium levels, something not often done. I'll have to look into that.

    But for being closed up since Oct 15, this is what it looked like 20 min after pulling the cover this morning. Not bad! Paver patio construction starts Monday.

    photo1.jpg
    24'x40' 25k gal Imperial Mountain Pond IGP, full 28 mil VynAll Ocean Breakers liner. All Hayward system: 140k BTU HeatPro heat pump, 3/4HP single speed TriStar 2" Pump, DE6020 filter, AquaPlus Automation/Salt Chlorination, remote controls, ColorLogic 4.0 lighting. Polaris 280 w/PB4-60 BP. TF100 & K1766 test kits. Rinox Palazzo pavers and Spherik coping. Pool installed 9/2013, project completed 6/16/14.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Just opened, chemistry readings coming soon - I'm gonna need some help. :)

    Looks wonderful.

    Bring on the questions!
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Casey's Avatar
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    Re: Just opened, chemistry readings coming soon - I'm gonna need some help. :)

    Looks good!
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

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    steveg_nh's Avatar
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    Re: Just opened, chemistry readings coming soon - I'm gonna need some help. :)

    Ok, used my TFT-100 kit. A few things to set the baseline. Kit bought late last year, around mid Septmeber, so I assume agents are all good. I read they last a year easy. Also, this is a SWG based pool. And lastly, yesterday, about 7 gallons of liquid shock were added by pool builder, and some stuff for alkalinity. More details in signature on pool.

    A couple of questons on doing the tests though:

    1. How explicitly should you read them, meaning literally? If one step says "mix" and another doesn't, do you not "mix" every time you add a drop? When calculating Alkaline I wonder if I should not have had it mixing as I added the agent to turn it from green to red (I think it's that test)... and

    2. Is it the immediate moment (# of drops) where you see the color change that you take your reading (even if the original color is still present - mixing wasn't stated in directions) vs when it's turned color fully, even if it's very lightly the required color?

    Here's my results:

    FC: 0-0.5 (yikes!) - (I tried doing a FAS-DPD test but once I realized cholrine was 0, I just measured FC)
    Alk: 130
    Calcium: 130
    CYA: 30-40
    Ph: 7.5

    Obviously I need to get the chlorine and CYA up.

    For the chlorine, pool math says just about 1.5 gallons of Bleach. As in, regular household bleach from walmart? Not a special chlorine stuff from the pool store? (Just making sure!). I thought with a SWG you shouldn't use regular bleach.

    Thank you very much for any assistance/guidance.
    24'x40' 25k gal Imperial Mountain Pond IGP, full 28 mil VynAll Ocean Breakers liner. All Hayward system: 140k BTU HeatPro heat pump, 3/4HP single speed TriStar 2" Pump, DE6020 filter, AquaPlus Automation/Salt Chlorination, remote controls, ColorLogic 4.0 lighting. Polaris 280 w/PB4-60 BP. TF100 & K1766 test kits. Rinox Palazzo pavers and Spherik coping. Pool installed 9/2013, project completed 6/16/14.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Just opened, chemistry readings coming soon - I'm gonna need some help. :)

    1) You need to mix more or less constantly while in the counting drops stage. Short pauses are fine but you need to mix some between drops at a minimum. The timing of mixing when adding the dye or other reagents at the beginning is less crucial, mixing needs to happen but it doesn't have to happen on each drop.

    2) You continue adding drops as long as the color continues changing. The final drop, which does not change the color any further, does not count.

    Yes, regular household bleach. Look for ones where the percentage is labeled as 8.25%, as they are usually a better valve (and less carrying). Avoid scents or special features, you want regular plain bleach. You can also use liquid chlorine from the pool store, which is the same chemical at a different concentration. In some areas pool stores don't carry liquid chlorine at all, in other areas they can be a better, or worse, value than grocery stores.

    With a SWG you don't normally need to add chlorine manually, but there are occasions when doing so is important. FC going to zero is one of the times when you should add chlorine manually.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Just opened, chemistry readings coming soon - I'm gonna need some help. :)

    Answer #1: mix, mix, mix. After every drop. If you use a speedstir, it's being stirred continuously.
    Answer #2: You add drops until the color doesn't change any more, then deduct the last one. It's actually pretty neat with the speedstir going, especially on the TA test. Right where the drop hits it changes to pinkish, then it fades to grey and spreads, and then the whole thing turns green again. Eventually it will turn greyish, then pinkish, and sometimes one more drop puts it to Barbie Pink. And any more drops do nothing.

    Comment#1: Raise Chlorine, yes. Raise CYA, not yet. If you need to SLAM, and with the speed you consumed the liquid shock I'd say you do, it's much easier at a lower CYA level. Right now you're about perfect for that.
    Comment#2 : You don't need to raise CH because you have a vinyl liner. You don't need to worry about leaching Calcium out of the walls. You could raise it if you get foaming, or you could use Cal-hypo to chlorinate until CH gets into the 200s and switch to bleach.

    Time to get back to Pool School for a refresher course!
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
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    Re: Just opened, chemistry readings coming soon - I'm gonna need some help. :)

    Thanks guys. So a couple of things. I do have a SpeedStir.

    So I'll use that all the time now wen adding drops.

    As for slamming I thought was only if algae is present?

    And lastly it CAN use household bleach instead of liquid shock with a SwG? Sounds like it. I don't know why I thought I couldn't. I thought to read it somewhere. My SwG isn't running yet due to low temp. And of the liquid shock we added 4 bottles were older and we think a bit weaker.

    Should I just work on getting the chlorine to the right spot first by adding the bleach?

    Thank you again.

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    Re: Just opened, chemistry readings coming soon - I'm gonna need some help. :)

    Yep, raise the FC level first. Then give it an hour to mix in and test the level again. If it comes out near what you were aiming for everything is good.

    You probably don't need to SLAM, assuming the water looks good and the chlorine doesn't all vanish in the first hour. But raising FC up from zero is best done manually. When everything is in balance the SWG can take over.

    Yep, regular household bleach. Some pool people bad mouth bleach because you aren't buying it from them, so they lose their commission/percentage.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Just opened, chemistry readings coming soon - I'm gonna need some help. :)

    Quote Originally Posted by steveg_nh View Post
    Thanks guys. So a couple of things. I do have a SpeedStir.

    So I'll use that all the time now wen adding drops.

    As for slamming I thought was only if algae is present?

    And lastly it CAN use household bleach instead of liquid shock with a SwG? Sounds like it. I don't know why I thought I couldn't. I thought to read it somewhere. My SwG isn't running yet due to low temp. And of the liquid shock we added 4 bottles were older and we think a bit weaker.

    Should I just work on getting the chlorine to the right spot first by adding the bleach?

    Thank you again.
    "Liquid Shock," "Bleach," "Chlorinating Liquid," it's all the same stuff. Sodium Hypochlorite, just different concentrations. Plain Chlorox (DO NOT use any of the scented or splashless varieties) is 8.25%. House brands can be anywhere from 1.5% to 8.25%. If they're ashamed to brag about their strength, you don't want it. Stuff sold for pools is usually 10 or 12.5%. The higher the concentration, the faster it breaks down and loses strength, so look closely at the packaging. If the boxes look old and dusty, skip it. You want fresh stuff.

    SLAMming is done any time the water shows high CC, or has algae. You show no CC because there is no FC to react with anything and create it. You don't have to SLAM. If you don't need it but you SLAM anyway, it just means you'll pass all three tests the first day and be done with it in record time!

    You should try to get the pool balanced and clear using bleach before you start messing with salt and starting the SWG. It can't generate enough FC fast enough to get you where you want to be, but it should be able to maintain the levels no problem.

    If you take it up to SLAM and the water is clear, there's no CC, and you don't lose any during darkness, you're ready for the next phase. Salt. Maintain FC using bleach until the water is warm enough to start the SWG, then you can raise CYA to recommended levels and play around with SWG percentages. You got the primo test kit and the speedstir, it'll be a piece of cake to keep the water sparkling this year.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Just opened, chemistry readings coming soon - I'm gonna need some help. :)

    Ok off to buy 2 gallons of Clorox! More soon.

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    Re: Just opened, chemistry readings coming soon - I'm gonna need some help. :)

    You can also get the store brands. Just make sure to look at the % Walmart is quite often the best price depending on the area. Some people have found the pool store has the best price. You just need to shop your area.

    Here I get mine at the ACE Hardware up the road. It is 11%. I get 7.5 gals. for $16. I use 5 cups each day during the summer. I use less when it is cooler.

    I test every other day during the summer. I tested every day until I learned my pool. I do test after a big rain just to be on the safe side. My husband loves to watch me test and be a "mad scientist" LOL
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    Re: Just opened, chemistry readings coming soon - I'm gonna need some help. :)

    Why are the recommended levels different with "bleach" vs "SWG" on this table? Bleach meaning a manual chlorine pool?

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...mmended-levels

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    Re: Just opened, chemistry readings coming soon - I'm gonna need some help. :)

    Yes.

    SWG numbers are different because they add the FC at a lower rate but more constantly.
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
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    Re: Just opened, chemistry readings coming soon - I'm gonna need some help. :)

    and you will need salt for the SWG to work
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    Re: Just opened, chemistry readings coming soon - I'm gonna need some help. :)

    Yup. Surprisingly, my salt looks pretty good. May need 1 bag or so, which I have.

    I just added 150 oz of 8.25% bleach, No phosphates and unscented. I'll check the chlorine level in a few hrs. I must admit, as I was pouring the bleach in (being careful not to splash), I was worried that splashes would bleach white spots in the liner. The pool company just dumped it in without regard. I assume too that liquid going in dissolved much faster and never really "hits" bottom in one place like anything granular. Just trying to take care of my new pool.

    Edit: Kind of nervous now. The bleach bottle, while it did not say it had a scent, did no explicitly say it was unscented. The others all said what scent they had. I'm worried this could possibly not be pure unscented. I searched and read the label, and the label says its for laundry and household use. Seems that all scented bleaches are not listed "for household use". Wish it said it outright! Any way to know for sure if you can't get a list of inactive ingredients to put my mind at ease?
    24'x40' 25k gal Imperial Mountain Pond IGP, full 28 mil VynAll Ocean Breakers liner. All Hayward system: 140k BTU HeatPro heat pump, 3/4HP single speed TriStar 2" Pump, DE6020 filter, AquaPlus Automation/Salt Chlorination, remote controls, ColorLogic 4.0 lighting. Polaris 280 w/PB4-60 BP. TF100 & K1766 test kits. Rinox Palazzo pavers and Spherik coping. Pool installed 9/2013, project completed 6/16/14.

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    Re: Just opened, chemistry readings coming soon - I'm gonna need some help. :)

    What brand was it? Can you post a picture of the bottle?
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
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    Re: Just opened, chemistry readings coming soon - I'm gonna need some help. :)

    White Cloud, from Walmart. It was one of the few that actually listed the % of the bleach. Same as Walmart brand from what I can tell too. This label has the same EPA registration number (found this online) as the bottles I bought.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    24'x40' 25k gal Imperial Mountain Pond IGP, full 28 mil VynAll Ocean Breakers liner. All Hayward system: 140k BTU HeatPro heat pump, 3/4HP single speed TriStar 2" Pump, DE6020 filter, AquaPlus Automation/Salt Chlorination, remote controls, ColorLogic 4.0 lighting. Polaris 280 w/PB4-60 BP. TF100 & K1766 test kits. Rinox Palazzo pavers and Spherik coping. Pool installed 9/2013, project completed 6/16/14.

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    Re: Just opened, chemistry readings coming soon - I'm gonna need some help. :)

    I think you're good.
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
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    Re: Just opened, chemistry readings coming soon - I'm gonna need some help. :)

    How would I know otherwise? Foaming?
    24'x40' 25k gal Imperial Mountain Pond IGP, full 28 mil VynAll Ocean Breakers liner. All Hayward system: 140k BTU HeatPro heat pump, 3/4HP single speed TriStar 2" Pump, DE6020 filter, AquaPlus Automation/Salt Chlorination, remote controls, ColorLogic 4.0 lighting. Polaris 280 w/PB4-60 BP. TF100 & K1766 test kits. Rinox Palazzo pavers and Spherik coping. Pool installed 9/2013, project completed 6/16/14.

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    New readings

    So Cl is now 5. That was easy! Maybe a touch too much but that's just with the t1000 daily test kit. I'll do another full test tomorrow at some point. Ph is still 7.5.
    24'x40' 25k gal Imperial Mountain Pond IGP, full 28 mil VynAll Ocean Breakers liner. All Hayward system: 140k BTU HeatPro heat pump, 3/4HP single speed TriStar 2" Pump, DE6020 filter, AquaPlus Automation/Salt Chlorination, remote controls, ColorLogic 4.0 lighting. Polaris 280 w/PB4-60 BP. TF100 & K1766 test kits. Rinox Palazzo pavers and Spherik coping. Pool installed 9/2013, project completed 6/16/14.

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