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Thread: New guy...going crazy!

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    New guy...going crazy!

    Hi everyone,

    I'm a long time forum moderator on car forums, etc. I'm now in the world of home ownership and trying to make sense of my pool. I recently bought a Hayward Navigator, which worked for a week and then proceeded to drop into the pool and not move. My pump doesn't seem to have a backwash valve and it's quite cumbersome to keep taking the entire thing apart to wash the filters. I'm nto even sure if I should be using DE in it!

    I was hoping that the community here might be able to set me on the right path!

    I'm not even sure which valve does what. I just replaced the feet and gearbox in my navigator and the pod moves like crazy when I hold it upside down in the water. However, it just doesn't seem to be enough to keep it moving when it hits the bottom. It's just sits there...stuck. I've let the air out of the relief, even played with the middle nozzle to adjust PSI. I just can't seem to bring the Hayward back to life.












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    Casey's Avatar
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    Re: New guy...going crazy!

    Welcome to TFP. I can not help you with your lil bot but someone should be around soon! Hope you enjoy the forum and check out Pool School!
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: New guy...going crazy!

    Welcome!

    I can't help you with the navigator thing. I vacuum by hand.

    Your skimmer appears to be missing the diverter. It looks like a flying saucer, sort of.

    It reduces the flow from the suction pipe to the skimmer and sucks on the main drain instead. The more you close the sliding flap, the more you pull from the main drain (that's the grate at the bottom of the deep end)

    The filter... Does it have screens inside or a huge pleated paper filter? If there are eight curved flat screens inside, you have a DE filter, and it needs to be coated or it won't filter. There should be a backwash valve. Look around beneath the filter base. Is there a stub of pipe poking out somewhere? Not those two we can see attached to the tank, below, and probably off to one side about an inch off the ground. That will be the backwash port. Do you see a stainless steel rod? That's the backwash handle. That's what mine has, anyway. The uglier alternative is that the backwash valve broke and so cheapskate removed it rather than replace it because PVC pipe and fittings are a lot cheaper.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
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    Charlie_R's Avatar
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    Re: New guy...going crazy!

    I see there is a label on the filter, see if there is a model number somewhere on the Hayward label.
    15'x48" 4500 gallon Intex pool, buried 1.5 ft. Pac-Fab Dynamo 3/4 hp pump. Hayward S180T sand filter, bought used. Taylor K-2006 test kit. Rocket mass heater based wood fired pool heater.

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    Re: New guy...going crazy!

    Just picked up a diverter. $25 at Ace Hardware. I'll look up the model number when I get home. The interior is 4 cylindrical filters. I've pulled them out and washed them with the hose twice since moving in. The nozzles drip too. What a pain. I just noticed it dripping out of the pipe leading into the basket of the pump when I shut it off. Joy

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New guy...going crazy!

    Welcome to TFP!!!

    That sounds like a cartridge filter ( I don't think Hayward makes one like that for DE). They can be a hassle if you have any algae growing in the pool and require frequent cleaning.

    I have not read much good about the Navigators ... certainly would not be one of the top choices for a suction cleaners.

    You only have a single suction line going in to the front of the pump, so the float diverter you bought will allow you to pull some water from the floor. After the filter you have 3 return lines. I can only assume that the middle one is the main return and the other 2 are for water features maybe?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: New guy...going crazy!

    Thanks for the input guys.

    No water features. I feel like this thing is plumbed goofy and those three should have combined to feed the pump with a single return. Problem is, once the diverter is in place I can't use the vacuum and since there is no way to focus all the power on the skimmer I can't increase the vacuum pressure. What an odd setup.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New guy...going crazy!

    Those 3 are not feeding the pump, they are the returns to the pool.

    Are you talking about a suction cleaner or hand vacuum? You should not be hooking the vac directly into the hole unless you also have a leaf canister in the house.

    Both my pools have had the same plumbing setup.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: New guy...going crazy!

    There is a leaf canister in front of the pump.

    I really don't get a lot of leaves mostly just dirt here in Arizona. do you adjust the vacuum pressure when you hook your vacuum up? I was doing it by hand before I bought this Hayward but now the Hayward is simply just sitting in the pool it's almost as if it doesn't have enough power to keep those legs moving once the suction pulls it to the floor.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New guy...going crazy!

    I don't know anything about those cleaners. If it is hooked to the only suction line in the skimmer it should be getting more than enough suction.

    You should not rely on only the pump basket, if that clogs you can damage the pump.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: New guy...going crazy!

    I presume house is the term for the skimmer? There is another basket in there although it's smaller.

    I ran the pump all night with the diverter in place. Pool actually looks pretty good. I'd still like to solve the vacuum issue but I wonder if the pod on the Hayward simply needs rebuilt.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New guy...going crazy!

    Sorry ... auto-correct .... house = hose.

    How do you hook the cleaner up? Do you plug it directly into the skimmer hole? There are skimmer plates that can be used that sit on top of the skimmer basket (although some people report problems with them). But, if you are plugging the hose directly into the skimmer hole and the Navigator is not working, then there is a problem with the cleaner.

    BTW, the water look a little cloudy ... post up a full set of test results. Have you been maintaining adequate FC? And do you realize that that FC level is a function of your CYA level?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: New guy...going crazy!

    I would get one of those in-hose filters if I could get the Hayward to work again.

    I connect the Hayward, drop it in the water, turn the pump on and put the end of the hose up to the jet to run all the air out of the hose then connect it directly to the skimmer. Like I mentioned, it worked great for a few days. The feet looked like they needed changed, so I did it. I wonder if the filter is dirty and the psi is too high now? The weird thing is that the feet on the Hayward work great when floating and it has tons of suction. I just don't get it.

    Here's a pic of the pool after running all night. I'm really new at the DIY alternative here. I've always been taking a sample up to ACE Hardware and letting them test it. Their recommendations keep it clear it would seem. I just want to keep it consistent. Especially now that the summer is here in AZ.


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    phipsi1237's Avatar
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    New guy...going crazy!

    Did you use the clear pressure tester that came with the cleaner? You may not being getting enough suction. This could be caused by having the floor drains open too much. My main drains stay set, but my in wall suction shares the line with the skimmer. I had to divert a bit more suction to the in wall line from the skimmer.

    And, if I remember right, the manual specifically says not to blow air out of the line with returns.
    14.5K gal Plaster IGP, Intelliflo VS, EasyTouch 8, SWG, IntellipH, Clear and Clean 420 Cartridge Filter, Attached Spa, H400IDL2 NG Heater

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    Re: New guy...going crazy!

    I didn't but it new so I lack anything other than the unit. I'm at a loss as to why it worked previously though. I'm not sure how I can reduce the drain as the plug is right next to the skimmer line where I plug the hose in.

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    phipsi1237's Avatar
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    Re: New guy...going crazy!

    Our navigator would have spells where it didn't seem to work and just sit there. I have a VS pump and was running it at about 3000 RPMs. We bit the bullet and bought a new one. Tested the suction with the clear tester that came with it, and it wasn't close to the minimum needed. I ramped the RPMs to about 3400. Still not enough. Only option was to adjust my valve to pull less from the skimmer. With a very small adjustment, it was too much so I lowered RPMs back down to 3000. Works fine now. Old vac probably would have been fine. I have an extra tester I'd be glad to ship to you. Just PM me your address.

    Only other thing I can think of is the leader hose that connects to the vacuum. Is it straight? Or is there a kink where it attaches? This will happen if you pull the vacuum out of the water and let it sit with the hose attached. You could also have a small hole somewhere in the hose.
    14.5K gal Plaster IGP, Intelliflo VS, EasyTouch 8, SWG, IntellipH, Clear and Clean 420 Cartridge Filter, Attached Spa, H400IDL2 NG Heater

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    Re: New guy...going crazy!

    I wish I had that option. Only thing I can do is use the diverter to change where it sucks from since I have to adjustable means into the pump. However, if I throw the diverter in, then I have no place to put the hose.

    The pod works like crazy but let it get all the way down on the floor and it freezes.

    I can't adjust rpms on this pump I believe.

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    Administrator Leebo's Avatar
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    Re: New guy...going crazy!

    Let me make sure of something, as I'm trying to piece something together.

    • The vacuum ran fine a while ago with no issues
    • The feet looked worn, so you replaced the feet on the vacuum
    • Now after the feet were replaced the feet on the vacuum moves fine and there's plenty of suction when it's in the water, but not on the floor
    • Once the vacuum hit's the floor it just sits there with the feet not moving



    Are these all correct??

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    phipsi1237's Avatar
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    Re: New guy...going crazy!

    Too much suction can cause issues as well.

    14.5K gal Plaster IGP, Intelliflo VS, EasyTouch 8, SWG, IntellipH, Clear and Clean 420 Cartridge Filter, Attached Spa, H400IDL2 NG Heater

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    Re: New guy...going crazy!

    Quote Originally Posted by Leebo View Post
    Let me make sure of something, as I'm trying to piece something together.

    • The vacuum ran fine a while ago with no issues
    • The feet looked worn, so you replaced the feet on the vacuum
    • Now after the feet were replaced the feet on the vacuum moves fine and there's plenty of suction when it's in the water, but not on the floor
    • Once the vacuum hit's the floor it just sits there with the feet not moving



    Are these all correct??
    Correct. It was getting stuck as if there was so much suction that it can't free itself all of a sudden. Replaced the feet and the gearbox since I was there. I've cleaned the filters, even plugged the main drain line in the skimmer too, nothing works.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by phipsi1237 View Post
    Too much suction can cause issues as well.
    I wish I had a darn valve in this thing somewhere.... the only ones I have are on the returns. :/

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