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Thread: Cloudy after Ph increaser

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    Cloudy after Ph increaser

    Hi new poster so please bear with me. SWG pool for three years and chemical balance has been a nightmare as it was set up by cowboy firm. Constant problems with mustard algae- initially told it was sand from the filter by two different "experts" but phosphate reduction (sorry!) end of last summer has got on top of this. Super shocked with liquid bleach last week killed off last algal bloom and water was nice and clear and getting ready for action!
    As Ph well below range (<6.4) added Ph increaser (couldn't source soda ash so used proprietary blend containing soda ash and baking powder as far as I can tell) and now water is cloudy. Reading though forums I guess this is Ca precipitate as TA high (250+ as we live in chalk area). CY 0 despite adding recently but gather reading may be inaccurate due to Ph level so I'm holding off adding anymore. Now aerating pool, Do I just wait for the cloudiness to clear or do I need to do something more?
    Otherwise salt 3500, FC usually 0 unless recently shocked - no doubt due to CY level- and TC 10. Really had been hoping to get SWG working properly this year with balancing Ph but I'm being thwarted at every turn and kids now mutinous as first pool party of year today going ahead without the pool!
    Any help appreciated.

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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    Cloudy after Ph increaser

    Welcome to TFP !
    What test kit are you using ? If you don't have one of our recommended test kits I highly suggest on getting one. One of these kits will give you accurate, consistent test results. I use the TF-100. When you get your kit post a full set of test results so we can take a look.
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...its-comparison
    What do you mean by CY ? If that means CYA (stabilizer ) what level did you shoot for ? It will take a week to fully register on a test.


    Your cloudiness could also be from the zero FC level. Could be start of an algae bloom. You need to get some chlorine in the pool ASAP. I would add enough bleach to get you to a FC level of 10 ppm.
    While your waiting on the kit I suggest you do some reading in pool school. Here are some articles to start with.
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...ater-chemistry
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...generators-swg
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...rine-generator
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...mmended-levels
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...nate-your-pool

    Use pool math to figure out all your chemical dosing needs. http://www.troublefreepool.com/calc.html
    Hope you enjoy the forum. When you have questions just post them and we can help you out. If you could add all your pool and equipment info to your sig it will help us better help you.
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Re: Cloudy after Ph increaser

    Hi Jeff thanks for your reply. I did mean CYA. I will have a look at how to add my pool details at the bottom of posts. I'm just using dip sticks bought from local pool shop. They calibrated well with the readings taken by a pool pro I had out last year so I'm confident they're at least ball park. I will though look at getting the kit you mention if they're available in the uk. Otherwise is it worth investing in electronic testers?
    I did have a look through the (extremely helpful) pool school basics and I've been using pool math. I added bleach two nights ago but not to super levels. The cloudiness came on as soon as I added the PH increaser so I'm pretty confident it's chemical ppt and not bloom but I'm going to add more tonight.

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Cloudy after Ph increaser

    Welcome!

    You're going to quickly discover that our methods are difficult to follow in the UK - most of Europe, really, from what I gather. Test kits are one problem. This may help: http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...learned-so-far

    Large quantities of liquid bleach are also hard to come by. If there are any farm supply stores near you, they may sell it as dairy disinfectant. Check ingredients - Sodium Hypochlorite is what you're after. Here's one example. http://www.kilco.co.uk/product/dairy...-hypochlorite/
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Cloudy after Ph increaser

    Thanks Richard. I've found a good supplier of 14/15% Na hypochlorite and have 100l stocked up- I got that tip from TFPs last year. I just couldn't find a supplier of soda ash (at least selling less than 100kg at a time- although I thought I'd succeed with one chemical supplier until my expected delivery of 25kg for 10 arrived in an envelope containing 25g of reagent grade sodium carbonate- my wife could hardly talk she was laughing so much as I'd been checking all day with her to see if my "sack" had arrived!) so bought the PH increaser. The photometers are pricey so I'll stick to my dip sticks and Calibrate every now and then with a sample test at the local pool store. I'm pretty sure I've got to grips with the basics and with the phosphate levels down I'm hoping to have sorted out the mustard algae. There no reason your American chemistry shouldn't work over here and I've lost all confidence in the local pool stores given their track record so far- and this website is by far and away the best source of info I've found so thanks to all involved!
    At the moment I just need to know of I should do anything with the cloudiness that occurred after I add the PH increaser- will it just aerate and filter out? Kind regards from this side of the Pond

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    Charlie_R's Avatar
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    Re: Cloudy after Ph increaser

    I am curious if you would be allowed to order the individual reagents for the TF-100 or K-2006. At least the FAS-DPD parts, along with the sample tube. If you can, you could put together your own kit, and have much better control over your pool.
    15'x48" 4500 gallon Intex pool, buried 1.5 ft. Pac-Fab Dynamo 3/4 hp pump. Hayward S180T sand filter, bought used. Taylor K-2006 test kit. Rocket mass heater based wood fired pool heater.

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Cloudy after Ph increaser

    Quote Originally Posted by Doccam View Post
    Thanks Richard. I've found a good supplier of 14/15% Na hypochlorite and have 100l stocked up- I got that tip from TFPs last year. I just couldn't find a supplier of soda ash (at least selling less than 100kg at a time- although I thought I'd succeed with one chemical supplier until my expected delivery of 25kg for 10 arrived in an envelope containing 25g of reagent grade sodium carbonate- my wife could hardly talk she was laughing so much as I'd been checking all day with her to see if my "sack" had arrived!) so bought the PH increaser. The photometers are pricey so I'll stick to my dip sticks and Calibrate every now and then with a sample test at the local pool store. I'm pretty sure I've got to grips with the basics and with the phosphate levels down I'm hoping to have sorted out the mustard algae. There no reason your American chemistry shouldn't work over here and I've lost all confidence in the local pool stores given their track record so far- and this website is by far and away the best source of info I've found so thanks to all involved!
    At the moment I just need to know of I should do anything with the cloudiness that occurred after I add the PH increaser- will it just aerate and filter out? Kind regards from this side of the Pond
    I've never ever had to raise CH or TA, so I have no clue about cloudiness. Sorry.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Cloudy after Ph increaser

    There are several things that can cause cloudy water. The most likely one if the cloudiness appears right when raising the PH is calcium clouding. Calcium clouding can only occur if PH, TA, and CH levels are collectively higher than ideal and you add calcium or anything that increases the PH. Filtering will not clear calcium clouding. The correct treatment is to lower some combination of PH, TA, and/or CH until the CSI goes below zero. You can use PoolMath, see the link in my signature, to calculate your CSI.

    You didn't post a full set of test results, so I can't tell if this is likely to be your problem or not. Low PH argues against, but high TA levels argue in favor.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Cloudy after Ph increaser

    Apologies for the delay been very busy this week. Thanks for all the replies above.
    Since I last posted I shocked the pool to FC of 10. This helped a bit but the water remained quite cloudy. I got some algal drop out but not much so I'm confident cloudiness isn't algal but is chemical.
    I've added floc tablets (aluminium based) & back washed the filters x3, and but that hasn't helped either. I've started to aerate again (I'd stopped because our air temperature has been 50F or there abouts so wanted to avoid losing too much heat)
    Current readings are
    Alkalinity 200ppm (down from 240)
    pH 6.8 ( up from 6.4- so the pH increaser has at least helped that a bit!)
    CYA 0 (despite adding 10lb)
    FC 2ppm (when not recently shocked- SWG is running 10hours+/day)
    TC 3ppm (I've been shocking x1 per week to 10)
    TH 600ppm
    Salt 3000ppm
    Phosphates 200ppb (down from 500 after adding phosphate reducer- this was after water became cloudy though)

    So to recap my water became cloudy immediately after adding pH increaser (10lb of commercial Na carbonate & bicarbonate mix) 2 weeks ago as pH was <6.4 and hasn't cleared since. I think it is a calcium precipitate but might be wrong. Anyway any advice on what I might be able to do to clear cloudiness much appreciated.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Cloudy after Ph increaser

    It sounds like you probably have calcium clouding. That won't clear up until you get the CSI to be negative, which involves lowering TA.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Cloudy after Ph increaser

    Hi Jason that's what I suspected. Any tips on the best way to do that- aerate or more chemicals? Cheers.

  12. Back To Top    #12
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Cloudy after Ph increaser

    See the instructions on lowering TA in the How To section of Pool School.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Cloudy after Ph increaser

    Success! I've kept aerating 24/7, shocked to FC10ppm (very little settlement so pretty sure I've got on top of mustard algae) & back washed x3 in last week. Water now clear as a bell. Chemistry still awry with pH 6.8 and high alkalinity etc as above- but I'll have to live with that I guess as I don't want to cloud it up again with soda ash and hopefully the aerating will deal with that in due course. SWG plates calcified which is no great surprise but that's easy enough clean.
    Just need some sunshine (cloudy and 50f this weekend- maybe we need to move to California!) and we're good to go
    Thanks for your help guys.

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