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Thread: Ecotech EZ Variable Speed Motor & Hayward SuperPump (aka FrankenPump)

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    ChuckDavis's Avatar
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    Ecotech EZ Variable Speed Motor & Hayward SuperPump (aka FrankenPump)

    <Split off from another thread.......>

    I'm also very tempted by the EcoTech. It appears that there would be around a 1 year payback to replace my vintage 2000, already rebuilt once, 2-speed, 1.5 HP motor on my Hayward SuperPump.

    The programming is much more flexible than the other VS replacement motors I've looked at. It has two start time/stop time/speed settings for Monday-Friday and two start time/stop time/speed settings for Saturday-Sunday. If you have an external controller, you can add up to four additional start time/stop time/speed settings.

    One hesitation is a hunch that the floodgates are about to open on brands/models/pricing of VS replacement motors. Does anybody's crystal ball give them any insight as to whether it would pay to wait for lower pricing and/or better programmability?

    The EcoTech is available in 1.5 HP and 3.0 HP models, with very little difference in pricing. Since VS motors supposedly automatically adjust their power output to the impeller load, does anybody know if there would be any operating cost or functional benefit to oversizing with the 3.0 HP model?

    The EcoTech 1.5 HP is currently available from Hydropool.com for $350 with free shipping.
    15,000 gallon IGP, epoxy surface, waterfall, borates (!), not closed in winter
    SuperPump with 2.4 THP EcoTech variable speed motor, Tagelus TA-60 filter with zeolite media, Liquidator, AquaComfort heat pump, Blue-White flowmeter, Smartpool Wall Climber
    TF-100, LaMotte metal sequestrant test kits
    Sundance Capri hot tub

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    Re: Ecotech EZ Variable Speed Replacement Motor

    I went with the 2 speed version of the v-green motor. At the time it was the only motor I could find that was high efficiency on low speed as well as high. I couldn't make payback work on a vs over the life of the pump with any kind of calculation. Might be worth considering.

    The one with the built in controller is called a 2 green. The same motor is available as a motor only if you get the right part number iirc it was under $300 shipped. See my sig line for the motor I put in. Can't see it myself from tapatalk...
    TFP Moderator Chris V. ~16K Pool & Spa, 48NSF DE, IG Plaster Circa 2000, Intermatic PE653, Challenger pump with a 2 speed B2984, 20gal stenner chlorine injection, Houston, TX
    One cannot follow Islam and Christianity at the same time, nor can one follow pool store methods and TFP at the same time.
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    ChuckDavis's Avatar
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    Re: Ecotech EZ Variable Speed Replacement Motor

    Thanks to another TFP thread, I realized that there is a potential gotcha for me with a variable speed pump.

    Just last fall I got a Liquidator. Since the amount of chlorine that the Liquidator delivers is proportional to the flow rate, it looks like it can be tricky to maintain a steady FC level unless you maintain a constant programming profile on your VS pump. In hindsight, maybe I should have gone with a peristaltic pump. Oh well.
    15,000 gallon IGP, epoxy surface, waterfall, borates (!), not closed in winter
    SuperPump with 2.4 THP EcoTech variable speed motor, Tagelus TA-60 filter with zeolite media, Liquidator, AquaComfort heat pump, Blue-White flowmeter, Smartpool Wall Climber
    TF-100, LaMotte metal sequestrant test kits
    Sundance Capri hot tub

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Ecotech EZ Variable Speed Replacement Motor

    ChuckDavis, in most cases the Liquidator can be gotten to work at low speed on a two speed pump. In some cases you may need to make some modifications to the Liquidator to increase the flow, but often even that is not required. The main thing is that you don't want to be changing speeds. However, that is almost never required, as most setups work fine all the time on low speed.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Ecotech EZ Variable Speed Replacement Motor

    Here is a report from NREL about replacing single speed with variable speed. www.nrel.gov/docs/fy12osti/54242.pdf
    Pool Details: 25,440 Gal IG Vinyl 21x40 Mountain Pond (Graphex)
    Filter: Hayward Micro-Clear DE (48 Sq Ft)
    Pump: Hayward SP2603VSP VS Super Pump
    SWG: Circupool Si45
    Cleaner: Pentair Kreepy Krauly Prowler 820

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    Re: Ecotech EZ Variable Speed Replacement Motor

    Quote Originally Posted by Lummy View Post
    Interesting choice. I've been looking at the AO smith v-green motor that runs ~$700. Anybody have any experience with this motor?
    I like that the V-green 270 motors have a aux output that you can use for a heater or SWG. I am leaning toward the EcoTech EZ because it is $300 cheaper.
    Pool Details: 25,440 Gal IG Vinyl 21x40 Mountain Pond (Graphex)
    Filter: Hayward Micro-Clear DE (48 Sq Ft)
    Pump: Hayward SP2603VSP VS Super Pump
    SWG: Circupool Si45
    Cleaner: Pentair Kreepy Krauly Prowler 820

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    Re: Ecotech EZ Variable Speed Replacement Motor

    Quote Originally Posted by acamato View Post
    Here is a report from NREL about replacing single speed with variable speed. www.nrel.gov/docs/fy12osti/54242.pdf
    That NREL report has all kinds of good information, but they also make some significant mistakes. The largest is their use of turnover based pump sizing. Turnovers are not the primary criteria in residential pump runtimes. They also significantly understate the value of two speed pumps and overstate the advantages of permanent magnet motors.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Brentr's Avatar
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    Re: Ecotech EZ Variable Speed Replacement Motor

    This looks very interesting. I would like to go green too but the costs are too much for now
    6,000 gal, IG free form,Beach Series Antigua by Marbletite Pebble finish,Sheer Descent, IG Fountain, Dolphin / Mermaid Statues,Dura- Glas 1.5hp pump,Hayward Pro-grid DE4820, Aqua Rite SWG with T-Cell 15,Heat Siphon Heat Pump DX 5.0 109,000 btu, Pool Cage, 1800sq ft Tremron Estate Pavers,Aquatherm Ecosun Solar Panels 192 sq ft with GL-235 Controller,Pentair IntelliBrite, Apollo Magnetic Stirrer Our New Poolbuild, Jacksonville, FL yr 2009 Solar install Outdoor kitchen upgrade

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    Re: Ecotech EZ Variable Speed Replacement Motor

    Quote Originally Posted by acamato View Post
    I like that the V-green 270 motors have a aux output that you can use for a heater or SWG. I am leaning toward the EcoTech EZ because it is $300 cheaper.
    The EcoTech Interface Adapter has an aux output.
    15,000 gallon IGP, epoxy surface, waterfall, borates (!), not closed in winter
    SuperPump with 2.4 THP EcoTech variable speed motor, Tagelus TA-60 filter with zeolite media, Liquidator, AquaComfort heat pump, Blue-White flowmeter, Smartpool Wall Climber
    TF-100, LaMotte metal sequestrant test kits
    Sundance Capri hot tub

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    Re: Ecotech EZ Variable Speed Replacement Motor

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion View Post
    That NREL report has all kinds of good information, but they also make some significant mistakes. The largest is their use of turnover based pump sizing. Turnovers are not the primary criteria in residential pump runtimes. They also significantly understate the value of two speed pumps and overstate the advantages of permanent magnet motors.
    The US Motors EcoTech web site has a "Pool Calculator" that claims to show the cost savings of their VS and 2-speed motors compared to an existing single-speed motor. (http://www.usmotors.com/Energy-Effic...alculator.aspx) The model can be run with or without turnover as an input. Do you think that the calculated savings are overstated?

    I'm in kind of a "Goldilocks" situation with my existing 2-speed, 1.5 HP SuperPump. Between summer and winter I switch wires so that my timer turns the pump on at high or low speed. Also in winter I bypass the heater, which has a long piping run and introduces lots of head. But..............in winter low speed is able to run the water feature but FC from the Liquidator stays to the low side. In summer I have to run at high speed to be able to run the heater and water feature, but 1.5 HP is more than I need and the electric meter spins like a top. I like the idea of being able to fine tune the speed/flow to the minimum required for the two operating profiles.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The EcoTech is available in 1.5 HP and 3.0 HP models, with very little difference in pricing. Since VS motors supposedly automatically adjust their power output to the impeller load, does anybody know if there would be any operating cost or functional benefit to oversizing with the 3.0 HP model?
    15,000 gallon IGP, epoxy surface, waterfall, borates (!), not closed in winter
    SuperPump with 2.4 THP EcoTech variable speed motor, Tagelus TA-60 filter with zeolite media, Liquidator, AquaComfort heat pump, Blue-White flowmeter, Smartpool Wall Climber
    TF-100, LaMotte metal sequestrant test kits
    Sundance Capri hot tub

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    Re: Ecotech EZ Variable Speed Replacement Motor

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckDavis View Post
    The EcoTech Interface Adapter has an aux output.
    Note: the Interface Adapter is an optional add-on that provides a low voltage relay that is closed when the pump is running above 1600 RPM. While useful in some situations, it is not a simple general purpose solution to the problems of controlling external devices that should only be powered on when the pump is on. At a minimum you would also need a high power relay, and somewhere to draw low voltage power to run the Interface Adapter.

    The primary purpose of the Interface Adapter is to allow common automation systems to change speeds on the Ecotech EZ motor.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Ecotech EZ Variable Speed Replacement Motor

    ChuckDavis, the Ecotech calculator is more reasonable than others I have seen, though in many cases it is just a little too optimistic. It does seem to assume that your current pump is a low E pump, while many current pumps are actually high E pumps. But that is a relatively minor concern.

    One of the big advantages of a variable speed pump is that you can dial in the exact speed you need, while with a single speed you are stuck with what you have.

    As long as you never need more than 1.5 HP, the 1.5 HP and 3 HP versions of the pump should have very similar energy usage. The smaller version is likely to be a little more efficient at exceedingly low speeds, but generally those speeds will be too low to be of practical use, for example skimmers have certain minimum flow rates to work correctly which are likely to be above the speeds at which the smaller pump would have an advantage. Meanwhile, the larger version is likely to be ever so slightly more efficient at higher speeds and of course it can move way more water if you happen to need that.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Ecotech EZ Variable Speed Replacement Motor

    Another difference is that the 1.5hp Ecotech has a 1.65 SF whereas the 3hp is 1.1SF. Wouldn't that make the HP a lot closer between the 2 pumps?

    The other major difference I noted is that the max amperage for the 1.5hp was 10amps and the 3hp was 14 amps.

    I should have mine tomorrow if all goes as planned.

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    Re: Ecotech EZ Variable Speed Replacement Motor

    FYI - See http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...eed-Pump-Motor for a thread on programming a variable speed motor.
    15,000 gallon IGP, epoxy surface, waterfall, borates (!), not closed in winter
    SuperPump with 2.4 THP EcoTech variable speed motor, Tagelus TA-60 filter with zeolite media, Liquidator, AquaComfort heat pump, Blue-White flowmeter, Smartpool Wall Climber
    TF-100, LaMotte metal sequestrant test kits
    Sundance Capri hot tub

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    Re: Ecotech EZ Variable Speed Replacement Motor

    Quick heads up for anybody considering buying an EcoTech from Hydropool.com in the next few days. There is a bug on their web site and both the C-Flange and J-Flange shopping paths lead to the C-Flange (EVSS) model. This should be fixed in the next few days.

    Good customer service from Hydropool. They called immediately after seeing my e-mail on Monday morning, are shipping the correct motor (EVSJ) and are paying the return shipping on the wrong motor.
    15,000 gallon IGP, epoxy surface, waterfall, borates (!), not closed in winter
    SuperPump with 2.4 THP EcoTech variable speed motor, Tagelus TA-60 filter with zeolite media, Liquidator, AquaComfort heat pump, Blue-White flowmeter, Smartpool Wall Climber
    TF-100, LaMotte metal sequestrant test kits
    Sundance Capri hot tub

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    Re: Ecotech EZ Variable Speed Replacement Motor

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckDavis View Post
    Quick heads up for anybody considering buying an EcoTech from Hydropool.com in the next few days. There is a bug on their web site and both the C-Flange and J-Flange shopping paths lead to the C-Flange (EVSS) model. This should be fixed in the next few days.

    Good customer service from Hydropool. They called immediately after seeing my e-mail on Monday morning, are shipping the correct motor (EVSJ) and are paying the return shipping on the wrong motor.
    I ordered the EcoTech under the threaded shaft motor link and looks like I have the same issue. I need the J-Frame C-Face. Just check my order and it looks like they shipped a EVSS15-NS... Time to make a call.

    Update: I sent a email to Hydro Pool. Got a reply 9 minutes later. They are going to stop the shipment on the original order and place an order for the correct motor. Great customer service.

    A big thanks to Chuck for the heads up. The website is now corrected.
    Pool Details: 25,440 Gal IG Vinyl 21x40 Mountain Pond (Graphex)
    Filter: Hayward Micro-Clear DE (48 Sq Ft)
    Pump: Hayward SP2603VSP VS Super Pump
    SWG: Circupool Si45
    Cleaner: Pentair Kreepy Krauly Prowler 820

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    EcoTech Variable Speed Motor With Hayward SuperPump

    Why can't anything be simple with a pool????

    (The purpose of this posting is to provide information to folks who might be considering using an EcoTech motor - or other variable speed motor - with a Hayward SuperPump.)

    As noted above, the vendor shipped me the wrong EcoTech motor and I won't have the correct motor until late tomorrow. Meanwhile I had ripped out all my old wiring/timer/freeze guard, so I've been pumpless since last Saturday. I'm hoping I can keep pouring in enough chlorine to avoid pollen/algae soup.

    After tearing down the pump, just on a hunch I checked some part numbers. It turned out the original owner of the house/pool, who was a pool contractor, had Frankensteined the pump.

    The pump body is a Hayward SuperPump, Model No. SP2621X25, which is supposedly a 2.5 HP model. (Although it turned out the same body is used for all the models.)

    The motor is an A.O. Smith 1.5 HP, 2-speed unit with a Service Factor of 1.3.

    The diffuser is a Hayward SP2600B, and the seal plate is a Hayward SP2600E5, which are for 0.5 to 2.0 HP pumps.

    The impeller is a Hayward SP2610C, which is rated at 1.0 HP.

    I purchased a 1.5 HP impeller, but then decided that due to a small broken off piece that it would be a good idea to replace the diffuser. The old and new diffusers are both embossed with part number SP2600B, but they look different. At this point I called Hayward.

    They recommended using the SP1616B diffuser, which is a diffuser for the 2.5 HP SuperPump but the current part for the SuperPump VS. I decided to go the whole way, and am replacing the seal plate and impeller with the current parts for the SuperPump VS. All the other parts (except the motor) are the same between the SuperPump and SuperPump VS.

    So......for any size SuperPump (because the bodies are all the same), if you replace the seal plate (SPX1611E5, originally for 2.5 HP SuperPump), diffuser (SPX1616B, originally for 2.5 HP SuperPump) and impeller (SPX1621C, originally for 2.5 HP SuperPump), and add a 1.5 HP EcoTech VS motor, you will end up with a SuperPump VS but with a motor with much better programmability. The seal plate, diffuser and impeller were around $100 on Amazon. The motor was $350 from Hydropool.com.

    This upgrade was not absolutely necessary. I could have stayed with the existing seal plate, diffuser and impeller, or just upgraded to a 1.5 HP impeller for better efficiency, but I decided to "roll my own" SuperPump VS since Hayward presumably had some reason for choosing those parts for the VS. (This is speculation on my part, but I did find an engineering article showing that for a given head and flow, running a pump at a lower speed with a larger diameter impeller is much more efficient than running at a higher speed with a smaller diameter impeller. Since the SuperPump VS impeller was originally for a 2.5 HP pump, Hayward may be using the largest possible diameter impeller to maximize efficiency. The engineering article is at http://www.pump-zone.com/topics/pump...-impeller-trim.)
    15,000 gallon IGP, epoxy surface, waterfall, borates (!), not closed in winter
    SuperPump with 2.4 THP EcoTech variable speed motor, Tagelus TA-60 filter with zeolite media, Liquidator, AquaComfort heat pump, Blue-White flowmeter, Smartpool Wall Climber
    TF-100, LaMotte metal sequestrant test kits
    Sundance Capri hot tub

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Ecotech EZ Variable Speed Motor

    Topics merged. Please keep everything about one problem/project together in one place.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Ecotech EZ Variable Speed Motor and the Hayward SuperPump

    After reading the post above. I decided to take off my motor in prep for my EcoTech. Here are my part numbers for my 1.5hp SuperPump (installed in 2000):
    SP-1600F Motor mounting plate (old style)
    SP-2600E Seal plate
    SP-2610C impeller
    SP-2600B diffuser

    Now I have to decide if I want to get the 2.5hp (VS) guts...


    Pool Details: 25,440 Gal IG Vinyl 21x40 Mountain Pond (Graphex)
    Filter: Hayward Micro-Clear DE (48 Sq Ft)
    Pump: Hayward SP2603VSP VS Super Pump
    SWG: Circupool Si45
    Cleaner: Pentair Kreepy Krauly Prowler 820

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    Re: EcoTech Variable Speed Motor With Hayward SuperPump

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckDavis View Post
    So......for any size SuperPump (because the bodies are all the same)
    The SuperPump uses 2 different bodies. A 1.5" ( SPX1600AA) and a 2"(SPX1620AA). I don't know if any other dimensions are different than the suction and discharge pipe size. The SuperPump VS uses the SP1600AA housing.



    Pool Details: 25,440 Gal IG Vinyl 21x40 Mountain Pond (Graphex)
    Filter: Hayward Micro-Clear DE (48 Sq Ft)
    Pump: Hayward SP2603VSP VS Super Pump
    SWG: Circupool Si45
    Cleaner: Pentair Kreepy Krauly Prowler 820

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