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Thread: They say a picture tells a thousand words......so here we go

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    They say a picture tells a thousand words......so here we go

    I'm new to the site, and had to cut back on costs, so the pool guy was the first to go. So now I'm chief pool and spa guy on site every day. Woooohoooo!
    Leslies told me to dump the water because of the dissolved solids etc. So here is their summary

    FAC OK 4
    CYA HIGH 130
    TA HIGH 130
    pH OK 7.5
    TDS HIGH 5000
    TEMPERATURE OK 70

    I'm using a cheap HDeopt test kit, and it seems to be doing fine for the chlorine and pH. But I'm guessing that I have to upgrade.
    Pool history is that I get algie on sides of pool (green) but the water looks clear. Chlorine (pills) and liquid, I use now seems to be ok. And I use muratic acid to bring the pH down, and it seems like I use a lot of it. 1/2 gal week?
    Thanks for looking. Oh and no questions yet except that .....should I dump the water now before California puts a squeeze on the water supply?

    pool1.jpg
    equip1.jpg

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    Mod Squad woodyp's Avatar
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    Re: They say a picture tells a thousand words......so here we go

    With CYA at 130, I'd sure replace half of it and no more than half at a time.
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: They say a picture tells a thousand words......so here we go

    Welcome to TFP!!!

    I would not dump anything until you have one of the Recommended Test Kits and post up a full set of numbers. TDS is a meaningless number ... we care about what makes up that number.

    BUT, given your likely very high CYA due to continued use of chlorine tablets, you will likely need to dump a good portion of the water. While waiting for the test kit, start reading Pool School, starting with these:
    ABCs of Water Chemistry
    Recommended Pool Chemicals
    How to Chlorinate Your Pool
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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: They say a picture tells a thousand words......so here we go

    Welcome!

    You get algae because your chlorine level is too low for your CYA level. The CYA level is too high. However, pool store test results are always somewhat suspect.

    Step one: get a proper test kit. The TF100 has the most useful quantities of reagents, so although it's slightly higher than the K-2006 (those are the only two we recommend) it's a better value.

    Step two: if your CYA really is that high, you need to drain at least half of it, before mandatory restrictions kick in. You just won't be able to get the chlorine levels high enough to get ahead of the algae otherwise.

    Seriously, head on over to http://tftestkits.net, bite the bullet and order a TF100, the XL option, and a speedstir. In a month's time, you'll wonder how anyone manages without them. Next stop, Pool School, while you're waiting for your kit. Do keep your chlorine level up around 10 until then.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
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    Re: They say a picture tells a thousand words......so here we go

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyp View Post
    With CYA at 130, I'd sure replace half of it and no more than half at a time.
    Why no more than half. When we first moved in, Leslies said the same thing, too many dissolved solids, so I dumped the pool, and then after a season, hired a pool guy. The pool will not pop out, as we do not have any rain this year, and also Southern Cali.

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    Re: They say a picture tells a thousand words......so here we go

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320 View Post
    Welcome!

    You get algae because your chlorine level is too low for your CYA level. The CYA level is too high. However, pool store test results are always somewhat suspect.

    Step one: get a proper test kit. The TF100 has the most useful quantities of reagents, so although it's slightly higher than the K-2006 (those are the only two we recommend) it's a better value.

    Step two: if your CYA really is that high, you need to drain at least half of it, before mandatory restrictions kick in. You just won't be able to get the chlorine levels high enough to get ahead of the algae otherwise.

    Seriously, head on over to http://tftestkits.net, bite the bullet and order a TF100, the XL option, and a speedstir. In a month's time, you'll wonder how anyone manages without them. Next stop, Pool School, while you're waiting for your kit. Do keep your chlorine level up around 10 until then.
    Will do...on the kit. I already read the pool school thingie. Hey, how do I list my equip. on my signature. I cannot find where the sig input is.

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    Re: They say a picture tells a thousand words......so here we go

    I forgot to mention that I went to HDepot to get some algie killer, and it worked. I did that a few weeks ago becasue I was leaving town for a week and did not want to come back to a green walled mess. SO I will keep the chlorine high till I get the kit and then get to draining some water out.

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    Re: They say a picture tells a thousand words......so here we go

    Edit your signature by going to "Forum Actions -> Edit Profile"

    We usually recommend against a full drain because you will avoid potential problems (floating the pool, wrinkling/destroying the liner, etc.). Obviously it's been done without issues, but there are too many variables involved, and it's safer to only recommend partial drains.
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    Re: They say a picture tells a thousand words......so here we go

    I've got motor/pump questions, but am not able to post pictures of the motor stickers. So I will describe best I can. I have two pumps/motors. the pool/spa pump is 2hp (1.3 SF))and the waterfall pump/motor is 1/2 hp.(1.9 SF) but the motors are the same pysical size, as are the pumps.

    main pump motor 208-230v, 11.0-10.2 amps 60hz 3450rpm
    waterfall pump motor 208-230/115v, 6.0-5.6/11.2 amps 60hz 3450 rpm.

    SO it looks like the main is 220v and the waterfall could be either. I notice that the main amp is twice the waterfall amps and 4 times the hp. That does not seem right.

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    Re: They say a picture tells a thousand words......so here we go

    A couple things: I recommend draining half because that will get your CYA level down to something reasonable and waste the least water. You can drain more - it's your wallet. TDS is immaterial. I have no idea what mine is, and I have crystal clear water and have had for a couple years continuously.

    As for the pump ratings, who cares? If it works, leave it alone. Easiest way to tell how the small one is wired is to look at the electrical panel. If the circuit breaker is a double, it's wired 220. If it's single, 110.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
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    Re: They say a picture tells a thousand words......so here we go

    A couple of points here just to follow up on what the others have said, first we generally suggest not using most types of algacides as many contain copper which can cause all sorts of problems including staining and green hair. Secondly it sounds like you have single speed pumps, given that you live on in California you probably have high electrical cost, therefore it may be worth it to look into upgrading to a 2 speed pump (generally possible with just a motor swap) or a variable speed, the savings could possibly pay for themselves within a year (or less). As the others have said, TDS is completely irrelevant (or rather may or may not mean anything depending on the exact components, so it is a useless test now that we have individual tests for its main components like CH, CYA, and salt). If the pool store test is to be believed your CYA level is 2-3 times our suggested range, the catch is out of all the tests done by pool stores the CYA test is the one that we have found to be the most prone to error. So while it is likely it is high given the history on the pool, etc. we would like to have a more accurate number before making specific advise on how much water to drain. There is a chance you may not need to drain any (a low chance), but we have seen pool store numbers be that far off many times before.

    Ike

    p.s. looking at your specs again it looks like your waterfall pump may be a 2 speed already, does it also do general pool circulation?
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    Re: They say a picture tells a thousand words......so here we go

    Welcome! Great guidance here.

    Ike - the labeling on the waterfall motor is typical of a single speed motor that can be run 110 or 220.

    Looking into 2 speed motors could be a big energy saver. The ROI on my new motor in Texas at 0.10 kwh energy was under 8 months.
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    Re: They say a picture tells a thousand words......so here we go

    Well, I got my test kit and here are some of the results (K-2006)
    Pool: CYA off the charts, water turned cloudy way before the first mark. TA 200, pH 7.4, CH way high.....I stopped counting the drops after 40.
    Tap water: CYA (none) ,pH 8.0 with 3 drops to change it, TA 160, CH 200.

    I'm ready to drain and start new. What should I expect to need to put in pool when refilled? I have some chlorine liquid, muratic acid, and chlorine tabs in stock.
    AG plaster pool about 20k gallons kidney shaped, Nautilus FNS filter DE (runs at 22psi), Raypak RP2100 gas heater for spa, magnetek pool/spa motor 2hp, magnetek waterfall pump 1/2 hp and Hayward Pool Vac.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: They say a picture tells a thousand words......so here we go

    You need to test the water after you refill and circulate for an hour to know what you need to adjust.

    I would not suggest using the chlorine tabs as they are what likely got your CYA so high in the first place.
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    Re: They say a picture tells a thousand words......so here we go

    Another observation with your initial post you said your PH was always on the high end and you...
    And I use muratic acid to bring the pH down, and it seems like I use a lot of it. 1/2 gal week?
    Your waterfall feature will drive up the PH quicker as well.
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    Re: They say a picture tells a thousand words......so here we go

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    You need to test the water after you refill and circulate for an hour to know what you need to adjust.

    I would not suggest using the chlorine tabs as they are what likely got your CYA so high in the first place.
    What are my options? Liquid chlorine? Remember, this water is 10 yrs old, and I have contributing tree **** etc. getting in the pool.
    AG plaster pool about 20k gallons kidney shaped, Nautilus FNS filter DE (runs at 22psi), Raypak RP2100 gas heater for spa, magnetek pool/spa motor 2hp, magnetek waterfall pump 1/2 hp and Hayward Pool Vac.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: They say a picture tells a thousand words......so here we go

    Actually the water is millions of years old
    Not sure what the tree has to do with the type of chlorine you use

    Did you read the links in my first response to you in this thread? Trichlor tablets are not a long term solution and liquid chlorine has not side-effects. So, yes, either liquid chlorine or get a SWG.
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    Re: They say a picture tells a thousand words......so here we go

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    Actually the water is millions of years old
    Not sure what the tree has to do with the type of chlorine you use

    Did you read the links in my first response to you in this thread? Trichlor tablets are not a long term solution and liquid chlorine has not side-effects. So, yes, either liquid chlorine or get a SWG.
    OK, I read up again. I did read all the info before, but too much info at one time short circuits my noggin'.

    I have 3/4 bucket (25lb) of pucks, and figured I could use them up and then go with straight liquid chlorine? I can monitor the CYA and stop the pucks when I reach a favorable CYA? I figure I could also just use the pucks when I/we go away for a week, as we go away 4 times a year at least. I do understand now that pucks long term is going to raise the CYA too high and I'll have to drain.
    AG plaster pool about 20k gallons kidney shaped, Nautilus FNS filter DE (runs at 22psi), Raypak RP2100 gas heater for spa, magnetek pool/spa motor 2hp, magnetek waterfall pump 1/2 hp and Hayward Pool Vac.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: They say a picture tells a thousand words......so here we go

    It is a lot of info to sink in ... you are starting to get it
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    Re: They say a picture tells a thousand words......so here we go

    Save the pucks for vacation. Most new members have a tendency to want to "use up the (fill in chemical here)." TFPC is about putting only what is needed into the pool. You don't need the stuff in those pucks, so don't put it in the pool. Keep them dry and they'll last forever, and you can use them for vacations or when you need to add CYA.
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
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