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Thread: Refill

  1. Back To Top    #1

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    Refill

    Time for a flush 'n' fill again!
    Every two years for those of us with cartridge filters and super hard tap water.
    Calcium hardness was off the charts.
    Auto Pilot measured the salt level at 4200!!!

    I guess that's the silver lining, we need just enough salt to make the chlorinator happy, then it goes up from there!

    Just got my TFP test kit refill, I will document the start up here hopefully to help others in the SW.
    13000 Gallon Shasta Pool In Ground 2004
    Gunite/PebbleTech, AutoPilot Salt Water, Cartridge Filters, Ozone, In Floor Cleaner.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Refill

    I am not following.
    Your salt level will no go up unless you are adding it

    Sure the CH will go up due to hard water and high evaporation, but I would not think it would go up as quickly as every 2 years.

    Please post up a full set of test results. Your hardness (CH) will not impact what the SWG is reading.
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  3. Back To Top    #3

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    Re: Refill

    Here in the Phoenix area, there is salt in the tap water. So much that your salt level goes up continually even though the SWG is using some. The only salt you need is at start up. I will get the reading from the sensor with "virgin" water before I add anything.
    First refill with the AutoPilot, I'm interested in seeing in what it detects.
    13000 Gallon Shasta Pool In Ground 2004
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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Refill

    Calcium is an ionic compound in water which will affect a TDS conductivity measurement and is basically what a SWG uses for the salt reading. So the SWG will read higher with higher TDS no matter where the TDS comes from. I think they put an offset into the reading to account for a normal pool CH level but if your ch level becomes too high then it can start to affect the salt reading.
    Mark
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Refill

    Interesting. I am curious what the actual test results show. We generally do not pay any attention to the TDS and are more interesting in the specifics that make it up (CH, salt, CYA, etc).

    I am not sure we have ever seen something like this reported from the many members in AZ. Maybe you just need to not put as much salt in at the start.
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    Re: Refill

    That would be a lot of salt in your fill water to add anything much to the pool.
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  7. Back To Top    #7

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    Re: Refill

    Ten years with SWG. Previously used strips to determine salt level. Previous SWG would not run unless salt level was good, but it did not display a reading. This is my fifth refill. All have gone the same way. Just added enough salt to make the SWG kick on, (Previously about 140#) and never have to add salt again in during the duration of the 2 years before I changed the water.
    13000 Gallon Shasta Pool In Ground 2004
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  8. Back To Top    #8

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    Re: Refill

    Salinity in your water system

    Salinity occurs naturally in surface water from the Salt River and Colorado River systems as well as some groundwater areas in central Arizona. In addition, human use adds salinity into the wastewater system so that salinity levels in reclaimed water are typically higher than in other sources. The table below shows typical salinity concentrations found in waters in central Arizona.
    Water Source Total Dissolved Solids
    Salt River 580 mg/L
    Verde River 270 mg/L
    Central Arizona Project (CAP) 650 mg/L
    Groundwater 200 - 5,000 mg/L
    Reclaimed Water Typically 300 - 500 mg/L higher than source water
    13000 Gallon Shasta Pool In Ground 2004
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  9. Back To Top    #9

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    Re: Refill

    Okay, refilled and filters cleaned.
    I will post all the numbers in a bit, but right now PoolPilot says my salt level is 1500 ppm, this is fresh tap water....
    13000 Gallon Shasta Pool In Ground 2004
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    Re: Refill

    ... so I am sorta thinking my gallon size is between 11000 and 12000, 140-150 pounds of salt should put me at 3000 for the AutoPilot. Old SWG ran on a little less salt, so again this is normal per my past experience.
    13000 Gallon Shasta Pool In Ground 2004
    Gunite/PebbleTech, AutoPilot Salt Water, Cartridge Filters, Ozone, In Floor Cleaner.

  11. Back To Top    #11

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    Re: Refill

    OK Folks, when they say don't drink the water, they mean don't.... drink.... the water....
    This is Chandler, Arizona City tap water.

    Temp.: 68
    Ph: 7.8
    Total Chlorine: Less than .5
    Total Alkalinity: 210 (No Baking Soda for me!!)
    Calcium Hardness: Sorta subjective on this one, turns from pink to purple at 250 and from purple to blue at 310. Either way, that's pretty nasty for fresh tap water!!
    Off to get salt, acid, stabilizer and borax!
    13000 Gallon Shasta Pool In Ground 2004
    Gunite/PebbleTech, AutoPilot Salt Water, Cartridge Filters, Ozone, In Floor Cleaner.

  12. Back To Top    #12
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Refill

    All tests end when the color change stops ... you have to go all the way to blue for the CH.

    Are you planning to add borates? If not, you will not likely ever need borax either.
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  13. Back To Top    #13
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    Re: Refill

    At a TA of 210, you will have a lot of work to do before adding Borax. You'll want to work it down first, but it is going to take a while with that level of TA.
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  14. Back To Top    #14

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    Re: Refill

    OK - so lets call the CH 310 out of the tap then.
    Yes, definitely adding borates, learned about that here at TFP. This seems to really, really help the feel of the very hard water and optically it seems to sparkle more.
    TA goes down gradually, a little more so in the heat of the summer when I have to aerate at night to keep the water temperature down.
    First I will get the salt level right, then CYA immediately following. I add the borax gradually over a period of a couple weeks as I maintain the ph.
    Not going to make myself too crazy about the TA, it will move in the right direction by itself and be fine before very long.
    Fresh water is very forgiving.
    13000 Gallon Shasta Pool In Ground 2004
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  15. Back To Top    #15
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    Re: Refill

    No. I'm sorry, but that is not correct. TA is very difficult to move once you add borates. Please read the Article in pool school on adding Borates. You must work to lower your TA FIRST.

    We are not all good candidates for adding Borax. Namely those with High TA. Not that many of us actually add them.
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  16. Back To Top    #16

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    Re: Refill

    Hmmm. This has not been a problem in the past. I run my ph a little lower than normal to help with calcification on the salt cell, 7.0-7.2
    Nothing I can really do about the CH.

    I've been using Borax for the past four years and it does exactly as advertised.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Once I get the salt and CYA in and ph where I want it, I will retest the TA and post it.
    13000 Gallon Shasta Pool In Ground 2004
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  17. Back To Top    #17

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    Re: Refill

    Well now. AutoPilot said my salt level was 1500, I added 120 pounds of salt and am now at 2600. According to pool math that makes my pool 13000. That's one thing I haven't been able to calculate accurately until now.
    13000 Gallon Shasta Pool In Ground 2004
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  18. Back To Top    #18
    Patrick_B's Avatar
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    Re: Refill

    Well, that's one way to find out. A good test result on salt/chloride can provide a solid measurement.

    Did you have a chance to check out the Adding Borates article, and still thinking of adding them?
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  19. Back To Top    #19

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    Re: Refill

    Yes, definitely will add borates. I learned about them here in 2009. I will follow your advice and wait until the TA comes down. Aerator is on now. Just never had a problem with TA in the past.
    13000 Gallon Shasta Pool In Ground 2004
    Gunite/PebbleTech, AutoPilot Salt Water, Cartridge Filters, Ozone, In Floor Cleaner.

  20. Back To Top    #20
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Refill

    Current option is that borates were previously overstated. They can be helpful to slow the pH rise if your TA is reasonable, but the other qualities are quite subjective.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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