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Thread: Tips to make the Liquidator liveable.....

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    Tips to make the Liquidator liveable.....

    Hi,

    As an early adopter of this device and with many more people buying them I figured I'd start a small "tip" thread to make living with the unit more pleasurable. It's a great design but doesn't use high end parts and can be a bit quirky. What do you want for $150

    Anyway, I'll start and feel free to add on. In no particular order.......

    1. Try and mount the unit out of direct sunlight and away from high heat sources. Sunlight and high heat can break down the chlorine rendering it ineffective. If you have to mount it in the sun then spend the time to cover the Liquidator in the silver wrappable insulation available at hardware stores. This will keep the sun out and your chlorine will last MUCH longer. Trust me, I used mine for a year without it covered and my chlorine use was at least double last year. Thanks for the idea Sabot.

    2. If you can, try to use a barb to install the unit in the pump drain. One less hole you don't need to drill or plug later if you don't like it. You may even be able to use a barb for the input from the heater drain if you have one. This tip was learned from another forum member (sorry can't remember who it was). I drilled holes and have no issues but others have had problems.

    3. The tubing that comes with it is cheap. Order some Tygon tubing from US plastics. It's much better quality and resists chemicals and UV. Order more than you think you'll need (learn from my mistake)

    4. The flow meter has a tendency to leak and create air bubbles. I tried using teflon tape, pipe dope and they both leaked. I tried permatex #2 gasket maker and it works like a champ. It's now very tight. It is removable so if you need to take it apart you can. Also use it on the top (where you put the ball in) with the oring.

    5. Keep a supply of muriatic acid on hand. Calcium will eventually build up and you will need to clean it. I found from my experience that the calcium builds up more if my TA is high and my pH is above 7.5 I have a water feature so I am always adding a little acid to keep the pH down. If it gets really bad it will eventualy cause the floats to lose seal and you won't be able to prime on startup.

    6. Try and keep a decent amount of chlorine in the Liquidator. Once you set the level, it is set at the saturation of what is in the Liquidator. Meaning if you have 4 gallons of bleach in the Liquidator the saturation is much higher than with 1 gallon remaining. The amount of chlorine introduced into the pool will not be the same at either extreme. Try and keep it fairly steady. I add every 3-4 days or so.

    7. Turn your pump off and let the Liquidator drain down before adding bleach. This will give you a lot more space at the top of the Liquidator so you don't overfill.

    8. You don't need a one way valve for the outlet but I keep one on the inlet. These too are cheap and one of mine failed (stuck closed) I putzed with it for quite some time before I realized it was functioning fine but the one way valve was stuck shut.

    That's all I can think of now. I really like the unit and it is unique. If you want a set it and forget it device you may want to look elsewhere (when you find one let me know) but for those that don't mind a bit of work it beats the **** out of adding bleach to the skimmer. Much more consistent delivery.

    Joe
    15,500 gal, inground gunite pool with 7 ft spa, 2 speed pump 2hp/.33hp, 3/4 hp booster pump, Intermatic P1353 timer, AutoPilot SC-48, Sand filter with ZeoBest, Heater, that I never use . . .

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    SeanB's Avatar
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    Re: Tips to make the Liquidator liveable.....

    Great post Joe!
    TFP Founder

    My Pool: 13K gal IG gunite with 7' spa, Pentair Cartridge Filter, Intellichlor IC40 SWG, Polaris 280 Cleaner, TF-100 Test Kit w/ salt test.

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    Re: Tips to make the Liquidator liveable.....

    cruzmisl;

    Thank you for the very informative post. Since I plan to install my Liquidator this evening it is quite timely for me. I have a couple of questions below to clarify some of my misunderstandings, likely because I haven't actually installed or used it yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by cruzmisl
    Hi,

    1. Try and mount the unit out of direct sunlight and away from high heat sources. Sunlight and high heat can break down the chlorine rendering it ineffective. If you have to mount it in the sun then spend the time to cover the Liquidator in the silver wrappable insulation available at hardware stores. This will keep the sun out and your chlorine will last MUCH longer. Trust me, I used mine for a year without it covered and my chlorine use was at least double last year. Thanks for the idea Sabot.
    Is heat or sunlight the problem? Protecting from sunlight is straightforward, but I'm not sure about heat. It seems that putting it in an enclosure or wrapping with insulation may actually make it hotter, without any airflow.


    Quote Originally Posted by cruzmisl
    2. If you can, try to use a barb to install the unit in the pump drain. One less hole you don't need to drill or plug later if you don't like it. You may even be able to use a barb for the input from the heater drain if you have one. This tip was learned from another forum member (sorry can't remember who it was). I drilled holes and have no issues but others have had problems.
    Can you explain this further? Do you mean look for an existing drain fitting on the pump housing and installed a barbed plumbing fitting in this location to replace a plug?



    Quote Originally Posted by cruzmisl
    8. You don't need a one way valve for the outlet but I keep one on the inlet. These too are cheap and one of mine failed (stuck closed) I putzed with it for quite some time before I realized it was functioning fine but the one way valve was stuck shut.
    Is this the one-way valve that comes with the liquidator or is it purchased separately? If it comes with the liquidator are you recommending removing the one way valve from the outlet?
    ___________________________________
    42'x18' In-ground gunite diving pool with raised spa and waterfall.
    Hayward pumps, 400,000BTU propane heater, cartridge filter
    Polaris 280 Cleaner

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    Re: Tips to make the Liquidator liveable.....

    1. Both heat and sunlight are a problem but primarily sunlight. When the Liquidator is running there is a constant flow of cool pool water it will regulate the heat on it's own. Try not to mount it in a shed that gets to 130f The insulation is very thin and is essentially bubble wrap lined with foil. No worries there.

    2. All pumps/heaters will have a drain located somewhere on the pump housing/heater. Remove the drain plug and replace it with a barbed fitting (1/4"). I'm not sure where you would locate something like this (possibly HD or Lowe's). It is an option that I have not tried but others on the board have. I thought it was an interesting idea and worth posting. I used the supplied clamps and didn't have an issue at all.

    3. The one way valves come with the liquidator. They are grey. At least the ones I got were. I'd hook it up following all the directions and if there is an issue remove them. When they work they don't cause a problem.
    15,500 gal, inground gunite pool with 7 ft spa, 2 speed pump 2hp/.33hp, 3/4 hp booster pump, Intermatic P1353 timer, AutoPilot SC-48, Sand filter with ZeoBest, Heater, that I never use . . .

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    Re: Tips to make the Liquidator liveable.....

    Quote Originally Posted by torchroadster
    Quote Originally Posted by cruzmisl
    8. You don't need a one way valve for the outlet but I keep one on the inlet. These too are cheap and one of mine failed (stuck closed) I putzed with it for quite some time before I realized it was functioning fine but the one way valve was stuck shut.
    Is this the one-way valve that comes with the liquidator or is it purchased separately? If it comes with the liquidator are you recommending removing the one way valve from the outlet?
    These are also referred to as "check valves" as they only allow the flow of water in one direction. One thing to not though, the ones supplied with the Liquidator do restrict flow a little.
    10K White Plaster Pool Built in 2007. Hayward Pump and DE Filter, Hayward Navigator, Liquidator (Removed due to issues), Solar Blanket, BBB user.

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    Re: Tips to make the Liquidator liveable.....

    Great post. I wish I knew about the idea of using a barb fitting in the drain plug before I drilled into my PVC. Someone should pass this on to HASA. I think a number of people pass on the Liquidator for fear of drilling into their pipes.

    Some additional hints from my experience:

    My pool equipment is directly behind my garage, so I located the Liquidator inside the garage out of the sun. This is also more convenient for storing and refilling bleach. On my first attempt, I learned that you cannot install the Liquidator too high above the pump. I first had it on a platform for easier access but found that there was insufficient pressure through the tubing and fittings to reliably keep the tank full. When I lowered it to the floor, all was well.

    I also added a valve at the inlet side. When I refill, I turn off the inlet valve but keep the pump running. That way the level drops and I can pour in the bleach no problem. I purchased the valve at the local hardware store.

    So far, I've had my Liquidator running since March and have had no problems with calcium. Not sure why I am not having the problems others are having.
    My Pool
    15k Gal Gunite Pool w/8 ft Spa w/Spillover
    Hayward DE Filter + DE Separation Tank
    Legend Sweep, Pentair Gas Heater
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    Re: Tips to make the Liquidator liveable.....

    Joe,

    That's a great post. Thanks for the info.

    mrafal,
    I also added a valve at the inlet side. When I refill, I turn off the inlet valve but keep the pump running. That way the level drops and I can pour in the bleach no problem. I purchased the valve at the local hardware store.
    That's a really good idea. siphoning has worked perfectly for me (pump running) but I like your approach as well.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Tips to make the Liquidator liveable.....

    Quote Originally Posted by mrafal

    So far, I've had my Liquidator running since March and have had no problems with calcium. Not sure why I am not having the problems others are having.
    Do you mean you don't have the white stuff at all? Or, perhaps you see it, but it doesn't cause problems?
    Please post your pH, TA and CH. Maybe we can see a pattern here.
    This is my ticket for Heaven (when all's working..) :
    22k Gal gunite IGP, 38 SF Anthony DE filter, 1 HP Hayward Super Pump
    380k BTU Raypak Natural Gas Heater (Model RP405A) and solar cover
    8 gal Liquidator w/ 12% bleach, Dolphin Diagnostic Advantage robotic cleaner. 3800 ppm salt, 50 ppm borates.

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    Re: Tips to make the Liquidator liveable.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Water_man
    Quote Originally Posted by mrafal

    So far, I've had my Liquidator running since March and have had no problems with calcium. Not sure why I am not having the problems others are having.
    Do you mean you don't have the white stuff at all? Or, perhaps you see it, but it doesn't cause problems?
    Please post your pH, TA and CH. Maybe we can see a pattern here.

    I haven't seen any deposits. I have more what I would term a thin layer of scum on the top of the water, and a small collection of some sort of gunk on the bottom, but I do not see anything accumulating on the float valves or flow meter. I did have to disassemble the flow meter and seal it up with pipe dope to keep it from leaking air.

    So far, I have had no reason to clean the tank or any of the valves.

    My numbers generally run:

    fc 4 to 5
    cc 0
    ta 60
    pH 7.6 (I have new plaster this season, so the pH rises pretty fast. I usually add MA when it gets above 7.8 and drop it to 7.4)
    CH 450 (not sure why CH rose this high. When the pool was refilled after replaster, I adjusted to about 200. It drifter up from there and seems to have stabilized. I do not use cal hypo for shock).
    CYA 50
    Borates 50
    My Pool
    15k Gal Gunite Pool w/8 ft Spa w/Spillover
    Hayward DE Filter + DE Separation Tank
    Legend Sweep, Pentair Gas Heater
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    Re: Tips to make the Liquidator liveable.....

    Quote Originally Posted by cruzmisl
    I have a water feature so I am always adding a little acid to keep the pH down. If it gets really bad it will eventualy cause the floats to lose seal and you won't be able to prime on startup.
    Joe
    Please give some more details about adding the acid. How dilute is it? How do you add it without stirring the water at the top?
    Does the addition actually dissolve existing deposits?
    Thanks.
    This is my ticket for Heaven (when all's working..) :
    22k Gal gunite IGP, 38 SF Anthony DE filter, 1 HP Hayward Super Pump
    380k BTU Raypak Natural Gas Heater (Model RP405A) and solar cover
    8 gal Liquidator w/ 12% bleach, Dolphin Diagnostic Advantage robotic cleaner. 3800 ppm salt, 50 ppm borates.

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    Re: Tips to make the Liquidator liveable.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Water_man
    Quote Originally Posted by cruzmisl
    I have a water feature so I am always adding a little acid to keep the pH down. If it gets really bad it will eventualy cause the floats to lose seal and you won't be able to prime on startup.
    Joe
    Please give some more details about adding the acid. How dilute is it? How do you add it without stirring the water at the top?
    Does the addition actually dissolve existing deposits?
    Thanks.
    I think he means he adds the acid to the pool, not the LQ.
    10K White Plaster Pool Built in 2007. Hayward Pump and DE Filter, Hayward Navigator, Liquidator (Removed due to issues), Solar Blanket, BBB user.

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    Re: Tips to make the Liquidator liveable.....

    Water_man may have the germination of an idea.

    At the first sign of any calcium buildup (or even better, from the startup as a preventative), what if you poured a cup or so of muriatic into the LQ....possibly very, very close to the float mechanism. Then, shut off the flow from the LQ for about 20-30 minutes.

    That may provide just enough acid to eliminate a thin formation of calcium and would be inconsequential to the LQ and your pool.

    My thinking is you might do this as a weekly routine. I'll wait for ya'lls opinions.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Tips to make the Liquidator liveable.....

    I know a guy who lost 3 days of his life to a coma from minimal exposure to chlorine gas

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    Re: Tips to make the Liquidator liveable.....

    Dave,

    That idea was already vetoed in another thread due to the potential for exposure to chlorine gases.

    From the WS post:

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    Adding muriatic acid to chlorine is not a good idea. They tend to react, releasing poisonous chlorine gas. This is not an issue at the concentrations found in pool water, but inside the Liquidator the concentration will be far higher. Throughly rinse any LQ parts in water before treating with muriatic acid.
    Nicole

    21' AGP (10,400g)
    Hayward PowerFlo Matrix dual-speed 1HP pump, 75 sq ft Waterway cartridge filter
    4G Liquidator, Aquabot POOL ROVER S2-40

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    Re: Tips to make the Liquidator liveable.....

    cruzmis,
    Can you post pics of your set up? Or anyone that has it working correctly. Hopefully anyone that does post pics will post some close up detailed pics? I do not have a LQ YET, but I am going on vacation in a few weeks and if I can figure all this out and how to actually make it work then ole Dureligh is going to have to do a shipment to Texas pretty darn quick
    27' Round AG, 17,200 gallons, sand filter

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    Re: Tips to make the Liquidator liveable.....

    I too have not experienced any problems with the white stuff that others have. Tubing and flow meter are still clear, floats are operating properly, no deposits inside of tank, and I am very pleased with the way this thing operates. If it is any help my numbers typically run about:
    FC: 5
    TC: 0
    pH: 7.4
    alk: 80
    CH: 80
    CYA: 50

    My unit is the 8 gallon model....installed at the end of May. I add bleach by unscrewing the top, poking a hole through the safety seal, and inverting the bottle on the funnel. Then I poke another hole in the bottom of the jug to vent. This seems to work well for me for I do not have to close any valves and bleach addition is accomplished slowly.

    As far as any installation tips are concerned, my unit is about 6 feet from the pump. To reduce the clutter factor w/ the hoses, I snaked both the supply and return through a scrap piece of 1 1/4" piece of PVC. Cleans up the install a bit.
    32000 gallon L-shaped inground vinyl.

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    Re: Tips to make the Liquidator liveable.....

    I'm starting to believe that Water_man might be on to the solution; Low CH levels lead to no WS issues. Just not sure what the low CH will do to a plaster finished pool. Anyone with a plaster finished pool willing to take this risk?
    10K White Plaster Pool Built in 2007. Hayward Pump and DE Filter, Hayward Navigator, Liquidator (Removed due to issues), Solar Blanket, BBB user.

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    Re: Tips to make the Liquidator liveable.....

    There should be some reasonable balance to avoid the scaling in The Liquidator vs. having pitting of pool plaster. Perhaps having a saturation index of around -0.3 or so might be enough and should not be a problem with pool plaster. Most SWG pool users will run somewhat negative around -0.2 or so anyway to avoid scaling in the SWG cell so this sort of approach is not unheard of.

    There's also some recent info I got from some Wojtowicz articles that may indicate that the saturation index I use that matches the Taylor watergram might be too low by about 0.14 units. Not much, but it would say that going a little more negative is not as much of a problem.

    Between the choices of having a lower CH vs. a lower TA, I would choose a lower TA. This will also help reduce the rate of pH rise. At a pH of 7.5 and CH of 300, a TA of 50 with a CYA of 30 (or a TA of 60 with a CYA of 60) would have a saturation index of about -0.3. If one were worried about the lower level of pH buffering, one could use Borates for that though I don't think it's really necessary. Just keep in mind that it takes less acid to lower the pH at lower TA levels.

    Obviously, one should try seeing if a saturation index of -0.2 is sufficient -- no need to go further if that's all it takes.

    Richard
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Re: Tips to make the Liquidator liveable.....

    Chem geek,

    It seems to me that the factors in the pool water (pH, TA, CH) have little affect on the problem that we're experiencing inside LQ.

    With FC that is probably 80ppm+ on a constant basis wouldn't that raise the pH to a point where the inside of the LQ could never stay inside the safe levels of the csi....causing virtually ANY level of CH to precipitate?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Tips to make the Liquidator liveable.....

    I wonder if sunlight has an impact on WS accumulation. My Liquidator is located in my garage out of the sun. I wonder if that somehow is helping me avoid the problem.

    Marc
    My Pool
    15k Gal Gunite Pool w/8 ft Spa w/Spillover
    Hayward DE Filter + DE Separation Tank
    Legend Sweep, Pentair Gas Heater
    Stenner Metering Pump for Liquid Chlorine Injection (15 gallon tank)

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