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Thread: Putting in new pool - help with filter options, please!

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    Putting in new pool - help with filter options, please!

    Hi everyone,

    We are putting in a 700 sq ft inground concrete pool and would appreciate your expertise on a few questions:

    1) Our pool building is offering us a Jandy 1.5 hp filter. We can choose between "mineral" or "salt"; this is a cartridge system. The pool salesman says he uses the mineral cartridge in his own personal pool and they love it, but that this system is "easily convertible" to salt if we change our minds. So I'm confused! Is a mineral cartridge filter a good thing, or not? I believe it would be an upcharge to get the salt system.

    2) Do we want a dual speed pump, or a variable speed pump? I've tried to google for the answer and yikes, I can't figure it out!

    Thanks so much!

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Putting in new pool - help with filter options, please!

    Welcome to TFP!!!

    700 sqft does not make any sense to me ... what is the volume or at least dimensions of the pool

    1. 1.5HP may be overkill. We NEVER recommend a mineral system. It adds metals to the water which can cause staining and green hair. The Salt systems can be very nice and helpful to maintain constant chlorine levels.

    2. Yes. What is your power cost? If not too high, then get a 2-speed.

    Likely you do not want a "combo" pump / filter and would be better off getting more appropriate equipment separately.

    Once you provide a pool size, we can recommend a good filter size.

    I think you would be well advised to read through Pool School a few times to learn about pool maintenance. Start with these:
    ABCs of Water Chemistry
    Recommended Pool Chemicals
    How to Chlorinate Your Pool
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: Putting in new pool - help with filter options, please!

    To follow up on what Jason said, most of the pump / filter combo kits sold out there mate up too large of pump with too small of filter. Also often the pump in these kits are not the most economical to operate, so it really is a false savings when you will pay the difference in electricity within a few months.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Re: Putting in new pool - help with filter options, please!

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    Welcome to TFP!!!

    700 sqft does not make any sense to me ... what is the volume or at least dimensions of the pool

    1. 1.5HP may be overkill. We NEVER recommend a mineral system. It adds metals to the water which can cause staining and green hair. The Salt systems can be very nice and helpful to maintain constant chlorine levels.

    2. Yes. What is your power cost? If not too high, then get a 2-speed.

    Likely you do not want a "combo" pump / filter and would be better off getting more appropriate equipment separately.

    Once you provide a pool size, we can recommend a good filter size.

    I think you would be well advised to read through Pool School a few times to learn about pool maintenance. Start with these:
    ABCs of Water Chemistry
    Recommended Pool Chemicals
    How to Chlorinate Your Pool
    So the pool is 26' wide by 44' long; not sure how many gallons that is!

    Is there a difference between dual and variable speed pumps? We also have a 100 lb. dog that will be swimming a lot, so I want to be sure the pump/filter can handle all that dog hair.

    Not sure what you mean by what is my power cost? Since the pool has not been installed yet, I have no idea what the power cost is...?

    And thanks for your honestly about the mineral system...we will go with salt instead! I will also read through those articles; many thanks.

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    Re: Putting in new pool - help with filter options, please!

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac-1 View Post
    To follow up on what Jason said, most of the pump / filter combo kits sold out there mate up too large of pump with too small of filter. Also often the pump in these kits are not the most economical to operate, so it really is a false savings when you will pay the difference in electricity within a few months.

    thanks. I am not sure what kind of filter, since my pool contract doesn't spell that out. I'll be sure to ask our pool guy about that, since we are dealing with a huge chocolate lab who will be swimming, I want to make sure the pump and filter can handle that!

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    Re: Putting in new pool - help with filter options, please!

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    Welcome to TFP!!!

    700 sqft does not make any sense to me ... what is the volume or at least dimensions of the pool

    1. 1.5HP may be overkill. We NEVER recommend a mineral system. It adds metals to the water which can cause staining and green hair. The Salt systems can be very nice and helpful to maintain constant chlorine levels.

    2. Yes. What is your power cost? If not too high, then get a 2-speed.

    Likely you do not want a "combo" pump / filter and would be better off getting more appropriate equipment separately.

    Once you provide a pool size, we can recommend a good filter size.

    I think you would be well advised to read through Pool School a few times to learn about pool maintenance. Start with these:
    ABCs of Water Chemistry
    Recommended Pool Chemicals
    How to Chlorinate Your Pool
    The pool dimensions are 26" wide by 44" long.

    Glad you said that about the mineral system; we weren't sure!

    How do I figure out if our pump is a combo or not? And is there a difference between dual and variable? We also have a 100 Lb dog swimming...want to be sure the pump/filter can handle that.

    Thanks!

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Putting in new pool - help with filter options, please!

    What shape? Rectangular?
    How deep? Average depth?
    Likely you are at least at 30k if not pushing 40k gallons which is a huge pool and going to want a big filter (although with the short season, may not need too big).

    The dog is no big deal, although you may want to use skimmer socks to catch the hair before the pump and filter.

    What is the cost per kW on your electric bill?

    Yes 2-speed and VS are different ... VS speed lets you pick any speed while the 2-speed is only full or low/half speed (but on low it uses 1/4 the amount of power).
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: Putting in new pool - help with filter options, please!

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    What shape? Rectangular?
    How deep? Average depth?
    Likely you are at least at 30k if not pushing 40k gallons which is a huge pool and going to want a big filter (although with the short season, may not need too big).

    The dog is no big deal, although you may want to use skimmer socks to catch the hair before the pump and filter.

    What is the cost per kW on your electric bill?

    Yes 2-speed and VS are different ... VS speed lets you pick any speed while the 2-speed is only full or low/half speed (but on low it uses 1/4 the amount of power).
    The pool is 3 to 4 feet in the shallow end, and 8 feet in the deep end. Trying to decipher my electric bill, it appears that I'm paying 9 cents a kilowatt hour, does that make sense?

    Also, the pool guy is telling me that I can use salt OR mineral cartridges. He is recommending the Nature2 Fusion Inground All in One system. I definitely don't want a metallic taste and don't want to worry about staining so I think we'll definitely go with salt. Anything else I should know about that?

    Thanks so much for your help!
    Last edited by Plops; 03-27-2014 at 08:40 PM. Reason: typo

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    Re: Putting in new pool - help with filter options, please!

    Around here you will be very hard pressed to find anyone that is not VERY ANTI mineral system, they have several major flaws, the biggest one to me is the fact that they only work on algae and do nothing for dangerous bacteria that might be growing in your pool. The problem is you can't see bacteria, and we generally use algae as a visible indicator of problems as chlorine kills both algae and bacteria. In addition there is the problem of copper in the mineral systems staining the pool and turning your hair green. If you want to read up on it there are numerous detailed message threads here on the topic.

    Ike
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Re: Putting in new pool - help with filter options, please!

    When getting a salt system we recommend getting a unit that is larger than what you need by between two and three times. The larger system will cost more up front, but last longer and end up being less expensive in the long run.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Putting in new pool - help with filter options, please!

    I have a 2 speed motor, low speed is useless, does not move hardly any water, a variable speed motor is more efficient, especially on start up because the VFDs are setup for a soft start, (slow ramping, lower amps), but higher amps are only a couple of seconds
    Now I don't have much experience with a variable speed motor on a pool, but if the motor is small I would think they would have to run it at somewhat high RPMs to get good flow, and the end result in electric savings would not be much different is at all.
    I do think your going to find a big difference in price of the motor.
    I do think a 1.5HP is overkill, but if that 1.5 will have a bigger pump, and can move more water, if it's variable, then they can run it at lower RPMs and move the same amount of water as a 3/4HP at full speed, and maybe it will draw less amps, I don't know this for a fact, one thing. I do know, is your going to pay more for the bigger motor and pump setup.
    Owner of Pool Service Pro, Hilmar, Ca.
    Biggest fish shot, 35 pound halibut, this was not in my 12,000 AG pool, Kreepy krawly vacuum that's obsessed with tying itself into knots.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Putting in new pool - help with filter options, please!

    Low speed of a 2 speed motor moves half the amount of water as on high speed at the amount of power ... hardly worthless. Seems to work great for the 100s of members on the forum with them, not sure why you have a problem with them.

    The advantage of a VS is the ability to run at even lower speeds and flow rates which apparently to you is a bad thing.

    The simple fact is, the more water you move, the more power it takes to do so.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: Putting in new pool - help with filter options, please!

    With your electricity rate, which is relatively low, a two speed pump would be great. A variable speed pump would work as well, but it is expensive, and you would likely never recover the initial investment in a variable speed pump. I have a 1 hp two speed motor. Low speed is the most useful. It is what I normally use, and it moves plenty of water. Before I got it, I was afraid it might not have enough flow for my SWG, but it works great. I use high speed to vacuum, but I might even be able to do that on low.

    If you plan to have solar or special water features, a variable speed pump might be best, but you have not indicated that you are planning on those things.

    For filter size, see the Pumping Station sticky, Hydraulics 101 - Have you lost your head? There is a chart of filter sizes based on your pool size. For DE and cartridge filters, it seems that people recommend something like twice the size that is in the chart. I have a cartridge filter because I felt that was a good match for a SWG system, but any type of filter will work.
    14k gal IG vinyl, Jandy Flopro 1 hp up-rated, 2 spd pump, Hayward 325 sq ft cartridge filter, Circupool Si-40 SWCG

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    Re: Putting in new pool - help with filter options, please!

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    Low speed of a 2 speed motor moves half the amount of water as on high speed at the amount of power ... hardly worthless. Seems to work great for the 100s of members on the forum with them, not sure why you have a problem with them.

    The advantage of a VS is the ability to run at even lower speeds and flow rates which apparently to you is a bad thing.

    The simple fact is, the more water you move, the more power it takes to do so.
    It has been a few years that I had it wired to run low speed, I have a suction side vacuum, and there was no way it would work for me, good that it works for many of you.
    I have a 3/4 HP motor, the amp draw does not concern me, it's not that big a deal on my electric bill.
    Owner of Pool Service Pro, Hilmar, Ca.
    Biggest fish shot, 35 pound halibut, this was not in my 12,000 AG pool, Kreepy krawly vacuum that's obsessed with tying itself into knots.

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