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Thread: What is the round mark in brand new pebble sheen installation?

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    What is the round mark in brand new pebble sheen installation?

    IMG_20140327_124517.jpg

    My PB just installed the blue granite pebble sheen on Tuesday and acid washed on Wednesday. After the SPA is filled up, I noticed a big round mark in one of the drains. It looks like the pebbles are more exposed in the dark area while the rest is not as exposed in the light area. Did my PB screw up something? I brushed with nylon brush but it did not help any.


    Thanks.

    SF
    Lazy-L shaped pool and a spa. 22.5k gallons. Pentair VS pump. Pentair cartridge filter CCP520. STA-Rite SR400NA heater (400K BTU). Leuder limestone coping. Pebble sheen (blue granite) Wooden deck.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: What is the round mark in brand new pebble sheen installation?

    That might be a place where acid pooled during the acid wash. Or, if that area is less exposed instead of more, it could be a place where they placed baking soda to neutralize the acid during the acid wash.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Is Pebble sheen supposed to look like this after startup?

    Hi all,

    My PB just finished installing Pebble Sheen Blue granite last week. I noticed there some white streaks at the bottom of the pool. Not sure if it is expected or it is a defect. My PB already screwed up the SPA and left a ring mark in around the drain. Waiting for them to fix it next week...

    Just for the reference, my PB finished install pebble sheen in one day. Then they came back the next day to acid wash. They made a puddle of acid water ( a few inches deep) and hosed that water to all over the pool and spa starting below the tiles. Then they neutralized the water and drained it. Then they power-washed the pool and spa but did not brush. The water was drained and they started to fill the pool. Does the start up sound ok?

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/qffq1e855e...406_115548.jpg

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...n-installation
    Lazy-L shaped pool and a spa. 22.5k gallons. Pentair VS pump. Pentair cartridge filter CCP520. STA-Rite SR400NA heater (400K BTU). Leuder limestone coping. Pebble sheen (blue granite) Wooden deck.

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    Can scaling develop within one week of bad water chemistry in a new pool?

    Hi all,

    I just have a brand new Pebble Tec pebble sheen installed. There are some issue with the finish. I filed a claim but PebbleTec is saying that my "aggressive" water chemistry is causing the scaling. For one thing, I know that the issues are not scaling. But I am curious if it is possible to develop scaling within a week with these water readings.


    3 days after fill up:
    pH 8.2
    CH 200
    TA 80

    1 week after fill up:
    pH 7.8
    CH 200
    TA 80

    1.5 weeks after fill up:
    pH 8.2
    CH 250
    TA 80

    2 weeks after fill up:
    pH 7.8
    CH 250
    TA 70

    Here is a link to my pool video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpw2vSrF1_s
    Lazy-L shaped pool and a spa. 22.5k gallons. Pentair VS pump. Pentair cartridge filter CCP520. STA-Rite SR400NA heater (400K BTU). Leuder limestone coping. Pebble sheen (blue granite) Wooden deck.

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    UN1017's Avatar
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    Re: Can scaling develop within one week of bad water chemistry in a new pool?

    It is possible, especially with a new surface and you allowing your pH to go so high. Most Pebble startup instructions recommend not allowing your pH to go above 7.5. They then have you gradually increase chlorine over a few days. Was there a reason you let it drift to over 8?

    Also, post a complete set of number as well. There could be other factors in play.
    15'x30' IG - Roman-style - 14K - Pebble Fina Classico
    Filter: Jandy CL460 Pump: Jandy Stealth SHPF1.5 SWG: Jandy AquaPure 1400 Cleaner: Jandy RayVac Test Kit: TF-100 w/SpeedStir

    Chlorine/CYA Chart----Extended Test Kit Directions----SLAM

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    Re: Can scaling develop within one week of bad water chemistry in a new pool?

    FC CC pH CH TA CYA
    3/30/2014 0 0 8.2 200 80 0
    3/31/2014 8.2
    4/1/2014 8.2
    4/2/2014 0.5 0.5 7.8 200 80 15
    4/3/2014 drain water
    4/5/2014 0.5 0.5 8.2 250 80
    4/6/2014 8.2 250 30
    4/7/2014 0 7.5 250 30
    4/8/2014 0 7.8 250 70 30
    4/10/2014 3 8.2 95 30
    4/12/2014 0.5 7.8 90 30
    4/13/2014 1.5 8.2 250 30
    4/19/2014 2 7.8 250 100 30

    From 3/30 to 4/2, the water chemistry was maintained by PB during the startup period. On 4/3, the pool was drained about 1/3 to fix a leak behind the light. Our city water is high in pH. The marks were also showing around that time. Then PB came back again one more time to balance the water within a few days after the partial refill.
    Lazy-L shaped pool and a spa. 22.5k gallons. Pentair VS pump. Pentair cartridge filter CCP520. STA-Rite SR400NA heater (400K BTU). Leuder limestone coping. Pebble sheen (blue granite) Wooden deck.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Can scaling develop within one week of bad water chemistry in a new pool?

    Yes, it is possible to have scaling in under a week. It is important that you never let the PH go above 8.0. PH at 8.2 is likely to cause scaling, though not at all certain to do so. More technically, the PH test reads any PH above 8.2 as 8.2. If PH was actually 8.2 you won't have scaling given your other numbers, but higher PH, which would test as 8.2 could easily cause scaling.

    Your other numbers look fairly reasonable.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    UN1017's Avatar
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    Re: Can scaling develop within one week of bad water chemistry in a new pool?

    I'm not sure what the PB did (or didn't do) but based on those numbers it wouldn't be unrealistic for you to add over a pint of MA and over a quart of bleach each day. At this stage you should be using your OTO kit everyday and make sure your pH is no higher than 7.5 and your FC is around 4. Eventually your pH swings will calm down but with your fill being so high, it will probably always be an issue for you.
    15'x30' IG - Roman-style - 14K - Pebble Fina Classico
    Filter: Jandy CL460 Pump: Jandy Stealth SHPF1.5 SWG: Jandy AquaPure 1400 Cleaner: Jandy RayVac Test Kit: TF-100 w/SpeedStir

    Chlorine/CYA Chart----Extended Test Kit Directions----SLAM

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    Re: Can scaling develop within one week of bad water chemistry in a new pool?

    Whether your pool has developed calcium scaling, and whether scale can develop within one week are two different questions and can have two different answers.

    Does your pool have uniform white calcium scaling, or gray blotchy discoloration? Also scale is rough to the touch. Feel the discoloration areas and determine that.

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    Re: Can scaling develop within one week of bad water chemistry in a new pool?

    My pool does not have uniform white deposits. The dark trouble areas are sunken and rough compared to surrounding surface. The trail of dark areas look like a trail of soil erosion. It is at the bottom next to a wall. It runs towards the drain.

    The white trouble areas are located in the center of the pool and near the pool drain. The marks at the center appear to be sweeping trowel marks. The ones near the drain are spoty.

    I really don't have issues with the product and the installation. I believe the problems are caused by the startup crew.

    I am also very disappointed by Pebbletech's quick reject on the warranty claim without investigating the issues. They just looked at my water chemistry history and rejected my claim based on the pH alone. They said it is scaling. Based on my description, do you agree it is scaling?

    Lazy-L shaped pool and a spa. 22.5k gallons. Pentair VS pump. Pentair cartridge filter CCP520. STA-Rite SR400NA heater (400K BTU). Leuder limestone coping. Pebble sheen (blue granite) Wooden deck.

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    Re: Can scaling develop within one week of bad water chemistry in a new pool?

    There are several possibilities for the discolorations, and there may more than one problem going on. And Pebble Tec should send a rep to inspect your pool. Did you provide them some pictures?
    If the dark areas (which are in trails or streaks down the pool floor) are the original and intended color, it may have been caused by an acid wash immediately after the plaster finish was installed. It may be that the crew allowed a strong acid solution to run down those areas, thereby etching the surface where it is dark.

    The white trowel marks may be from the plasterers (troweling finishers) that added and used excessive water while troweling and causing excessive porosity. White spotting can also be of the same cause.

    Also, in time, porous areas or spots caused by the finishers or start-up crew can slowly turn white and appear to be scale, but it is not. A porous surface becomes much lighter in color than the surrounding smooth and dense plaster surface.
    Out of balanced pool water (high pH) would cause uniform whitening on a uniform quality plaster surface, not in streaks, spots, or mottled blotchiness.

    Without personally seeing your pool, I can't say if it has white scaling deposits or not. But again, since there are dark areas that are rough, and whitish areas that are smooth, it is likely that something else (other than the water balance) has occurred to cause those conditions. A pH of 8.2 does not necessarily cause scaling conditions, especially since the other water parameters were in balance. If the pH was actually higher than 8.4, then uniform white scaling could develop, but which would also be rough to the touch and easily removed.

    You also mentioned that the Pebble Sheen color is a "blue" granite. If a color pigment was added to obtain a bluish color, and the plasterer also added calcium chloride to the mix, that is a non-compatible mix, and will likely cause mottling and blotchy whiteness. If an "organic" blue pigment was used, the color can easily be bleached out by normal chlorine residuals. Organic blue pigments should not be used in swimming pool constructions.

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    Re: Can scaling develop within one week of bad water chemistry in a new pool?

    Debate is over. I found a photo of the pool taken right after acid wash and when it is beginning to fill. The dark trail was visible at that time.

    Here the link.
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/bpyepx66pt...326_180932.jpg

    Notice the dark areas on the right vside of the hose extending from the water edge to the deep end on the right of the drain and around the drain. It is not very noticeable from this angle but it is more so from above


    Lazy-L shaped pool and a spa. 22.5k gallons. Pentair VS pump. Pentair cartridge filter CCP520. STA-Rite SR400NA heater (400K BTU). Leuder limestone coping. Pebble sheen (blue granite) Wooden deck.

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    I need help from Pebble Tec pool owners

    hi all,

    My pool was just refinished with Pebble Tec Pebble sheen (Blue granite) two months ago. I noticed there were drain marks within the first two weeks. A third party PB and I both believed the marks were caused by acid erosion during acid wash. Here is a link to the underwater video.

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/35348401/015.MP4

    Just wonder if it is common in pebble tech pools.


    Thanks.
    Lazy-L shaped pool and a spa. 22.5k gallons. Pentair VS pump. Pentair cartridge filter CCP520. STA-Rite SR400NA heater (400K BTU). Leuder limestone coping. Pebble sheen (blue granite) Wooden deck.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: I need help from Pebble Tec pool owners

    That is a little worse than you usually see with PebbleTec. Did you talk to your installer about it?
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: I need help from Pebble Tec pool owners

    Hi Jason,

    If you read my old posts, you will understand the whole story. Anyway Pebbletech QC inspected the problem yesterday. I am waiting for their response now.

    Lazy-L shaped pool and a spa. 22.5k gallons. Pentair VS pump. Pentair cartridge filter CCP520. STA-Rite SR400NA heater (400K BTU). Leuder limestone coping. Pebble sheen (blue granite) Wooden deck.

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    Re: I need help from Pebble Tec pool owners

    Due to high traffic, Dropbox disabled my video. I just posted it to YouTube. You can view it later this morning.


    http://youtu.be/i9i1wCO63WA
    Lazy-L shaped pool and a spa. 22.5k gallons. Pentair VS pump. Pentair cartridge filter CCP520. STA-Rite SR400NA heater (400K BTU). Leuder limestone coping. Pebble sheen (blue granite) Wooden deck.

  17. Back To Top    #17
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: What is the round mark in brand new pebble sheen installation?

    Topic merged. Please keep everything about your discoloration together in one topic. It is important that we have the correct context when answering your questions.

    Searching through your old posts I don't see any mention of you actually talking to the installer.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: What is the round mark in brand new pebble sheen installation?

    I did talk to the installer several times including the superintendent, scheduler and worker. I asked for a meeting with the owner but the request was ignored. Finally, I had to contact Pebble Tec to file a warranty claim. Let's see what will happen.
    Lazy-L shaped pool and a spa. 22.5k gallons. Pentair VS pump. Pentair cartridge filter CCP520. STA-Rite SR400NA heater (400K BTU). Leuder limestone coping. Pebble sheen (blue granite) Wooden deck.

  19. Back To Top    #19

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    Re: What is the round mark in brand new pebble sheen installation?

    I know this is an old post, but I'm curious to hear how your warranty claim experience went...
    34K gal, 20'x40' IGP (backfilled and reinforced concrete block walls with concrete floor built mid-1970's; renovated 2017), PebbleSheen Arctic White plaster finish, Lotus Prisma Marine 1x2 glass waterline tiles, Indiana limestone coping, 1.5hp Hayward pump, Pac-Fab Triton TR100 sand filter, Pentair Intellibrite 5g color LED 120v Pool Light, Dolphin Supreme M400 robot

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