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Thread: Only getting circulation to spa

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    Only getting circulation to spa

    Hello and thank you in advance to anyone who reads this post--

    On Monday and Tuesday (today is Thursday) I noticed that the spa was circulating for most of the day and switching to the pool in the afternoon. The spa was not turned on at this time, technically. The pool runs from 9am to 4pm and the spa from 4-5 pm as per programming. I checked the valves to see if they're moving and one turns from pool to spa when I activate the button on the controller but water continues to be jetted through the spa no matter the position of the valve. Any ideas?

    I have a couple of thoughts: first, how many valves are supposed to turn to switch from pool to spa mode? Perhaps one is not turning and I don't know that it's supposed to...second, could the diodes be inverted so that the controller is to not telling the valve to go to the spa rather than the pool (I haven't been home to ascertain whether the schedule is exactly inverted--I don't know if the spa runs from 9-4 and the pool from 4-5, but I should be able to check today)? If I turn everything off for a hard reset like on a computer would this help--turn off the circuit breaker for a few minutes to reset the diodes in the valve automater? Finally, could it be that something inside the valve is broken so that even when it turns, it's not opening or closing as it should? You can probably tell from my questions that I know just enough to be dangerous without really knowing what I'm doing.

    Thanks for any input!

    Here are some photos of the various valves:

    image.jpg

    image.jpg

    - - - Updated - - -

    Sorry, I can't seem to attach the other valves due to data overload. Hopefully you don't need to se them?
    1999 23,000 gal IG plaster w/spillover 1,600 gal spa natural stone waterfall & decking, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, Pentair Whisperflo 2 HP model WF-28, PB4 booster pump, Pentair FNS Plus Vertical Grid DE filter area 120 sq ft flow rate 96 rpm, Hayward pump for waterfall, Polaris 280, Aqualink RS8
    TF-100 + Speed Stir

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Only getting circulation to spa

    You need to host the photos on Photobucket or the like and post links.

    You only showed the suction valves.

    When you switch between pool and spa mode, 2 valves should turn (1 suction and 1 return). Depending on how your automation is setup, it may not truly go into "spa" mode but a "spa overflow" mode where only the return valve would turn to have the water enter the spa and spillover, but the suction would still be on the pool.

    I think we need more information to help figure out what the actual problem is.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: Only getting circulation to spa

    http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/...ps297702a9.jpg

    I hope this comes through--I've never used photobucket before. Let me know if you can't see the photos.

    What other information would be helpful? I will try to get it for you if you can let me know what you need. Thank you so much.
    1999 23,000 gal IG plaster w/spillover 1,600 gal spa natural stone waterfall & decking, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, Pentair Whisperflo 2 HP model WF-28, PB4 booster pump, Pentair FNS Plus Vertical Grid DE filter area 120 sq ft flow rate 96 rpm, Hayward pump for waterfall, Polaris 280, Aqualink RS8
    TF-100 + Speed Stir

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Only getting circulation to spa

    I need to make a sticky on this:
    When looking at one picture in Photobucket, click on the link that says "Direct" on the right.
    Then here, click on the little picture above where you type your message and paste into the URL, uncheck the little box.
    That will put the URL in IMG tags and make it show up automatically.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Your return valve with actuator is in an weird orientation which has one path fully open and one path partially open. How does this move in the various modes?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: Only getting circulation to spa

    More information: I put the controller in service mode and switched the valves from pool to spa mode--only one valve moves, the one on the suction side. The valve "handle" has two sides, the "handle" side and the opposing side the says "off". The "off" side lines up with the pipe that says "spa suction" when it is in pool mode. When I change to pool spa mode the valve moves so that the "off" side lines up with the "cleaner" and "skimmer" side (please refer to suction side photo). However, no matter the position of the valve, it is the spa that is circulation, not the pool. I do not see either of the valves on the return side move when switching between pool and spa modes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The return valve is not moving when I switch from pool to spa or vice versa.
    1999 23,000 gal IG plaster w/spillover 1,600 gal spa natural stone waterfall & decking, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, Pentair Whisperflo 2 HP model WF-28, PB4 booster pump, Pentair FNS Plus Vertical Grid DE filter area 120 sq ft flow rate 96 rpm, Hayward pump for waterfall, Polaris 280, Aqualink RS8
    TF-100 + Speed Stir

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Only getting circulation to spa

    I think you have a typo in what you wrote that I changed (let me know if that is right). Well, appears there is something wrong with your return actuator or the controller. There is a switch on the back of the actuator with 3 positions. It is not in the middle is it? If not, flip it to the opposite side and see if the actuator responds.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: Only getting circulation to spa

    Thank you for fixing my typo--your correction is correct.

    The return actuator in in the 2 position, not the middle off position. The suction actuator is also on two if this makes a difference.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Can I flip to position one without turning off the pump? Meaning should I out the controller in service mode?
    1999 23,000 gal IG plaster w/spillover 1,600 gal spa natural stone waterfall & decking, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, Pentair Whisperflo 2 HP model WF-28, PB4 booster pump, Pentair FNS Plus Vertical Grid DE filter area 120 sq ft flow rate 96 rpm, Hayward pump for waterfall, Polaris 280, Aqualink RS8
    TF-100 + Speed Stir

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    Re: Only getting circulation to spa

    Does the valve move if you flip it to 1? You should not need to turn off the pump.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    Re: Only getting circulation to spa

    I hate autocorrect. I hope my message was clear.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Before flipping to one, do I have to put in service mode?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Ok, hang on, going to flip now
    1999 23,000 gal IG plaster w/spillover 1,600 gal spa natural stone waterfall & decking, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, Pentair Whisperflo 2 HP model WF-28, PB4 booster pump, Pentair FNS Plus Vertical Grid DE filter area 120 sq ft flow rate 96 rpm, Hayward pump for waterfall, Polaris 280, Aqualink RS8
    TF-100 + Speed Stir

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    Re: Only getting circulation to spa

    No. Although make sure the valve does not close off the incoming pipe on the bottom of the valve in the picture.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: Only getting circulation to spa

    When I flip to one the valve does not move.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Since you mentioned the controller, the other day I was trying to understand the programming so I was reading through the prompts on the controller (previous owners programmed--not me--trying to learn how to use it). It is very possible that I reprogrammed something inadvertently. I was not considering this possibility before.
    1999 23,000 gal IG plaster w/spillover 1,600 gal spa natural stone waterfall & decking, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, Pentair Whisperflo 2 HP model WF-28, PB4 booster pump, Pentair FNS Plus Vertical Grid DE filter area 120 sq ft flow rate 96 rpm, Hayward pump for waterfall, Polaris 280, Aqualink RS8
    TF-100 + Speed Stir

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    Re: Only getting circulation to spa

    So either:
    -the controller is not sending power to the actuator
    -the actuator has gone bad
    -the wire to the actuator has been chewed/cut
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: Only getting circulation to spa

    Well, that is farther along than I was before, thank you very much. How does one trouble shoot which of the options? I'm thinking I may have accidentally reprogrammed the controller, does this seem reasonable to you as a cause? If so, I have the owner's manual, but any suggestions would be awfully welcome.

    Regarding the other two possibilities, the wire is intact so that can be ruled out. The actuator was replaced just shy of four years ago, but I have no idea how long they last. The other one have been there much longer, for instance.
    1999 23,000 gal IG plaster w/spillover 1,600 gal spa natural stone waterfall & decking, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, Pentair Whisperflo 2 HP model WF-28, PB4 booster pump, Pentair FNS Plus Vertical Grid DE filter area 120 sq ft flow rate 96 rpm, Hayward pump for waterfall, Polaris 280, Aqualink RS8
    TF-100 + Speed Stir

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    Re: Only getting circulation to spa

    If the wire looks ok and still plugged in, that eliminates that.

    One thing you could do. Is turn the pump off, and switch the plugs for the valves in the controller and then see which ones move when the switch is toggled.
    If only the suction valve moves still, then the return actuator is bad
    If only the return valve moves, then either something in the controller has gone bad or somehow you changed the programming (which is typically not that easy to do on accident).
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    Re: Only getting circulation to spa

    On the controller, I just now reviewed the programming and it appears to still be correct, so I guess I didn't reprogram accidentally.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Great, thanks for those suggestions. That will be what I try next. Will report back. Your help is very much appreciated.
    1999 23,000 gal IG plaster w/spillover 1,600 gal spa natural stone waterfall & decking, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, Pentair Whisperflo 2 HP model WF-28, PB4 booster pump, Pentair FNS Plus Vertical Grid DE filter area 120 sq ft flow rate 96 rpm, Hayward pump for waterfall, Polaris 280, Aqualink RS8
    TF-100 + Speed Stir

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    Re: Only getting circulation to spa

    Ok, this is weird. Maybe I did reprogram the controller. I'm not sure quite when it did this, but after four pm the spa button on the controller turned itself off and the water in the pool started circulating. Indeed, the return valve has moved to the position you see in the photo (the position it was in before was completely off--I forgot they were photos from a month ago). Also the Polaris is not turning off at it's regular time. I know there is a program A and a program B. Program A, when I reviewed it was correct and it appears to be the one that is activated. But it also appears that program B is activated. Any thoughts now?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Needless to say, I have no idea how I should program everything. I only know the times that various features turn on and off.
    1999 23,000 gal IG plaster w/spillover 1,600 gal spa natural stone waterfall & decking, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, Pentair Whisperflo 2 HP model WF-28, PB4 booster pump, Pentair FNS Plus Vertical Grid DE filter area 120 sq ft flow rate 96 rpm, Hayward pump for waterfall, Polaris 280, Aqualink RS8
    TF-100 + Speed Stir

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    Re: Only getting circulation to spa

    I know nothing about programming your system ... sorry.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: Only getting circulation to spa

    That's ok, you've been really helpful and I appreciate it.
    1999 23,000 gal IG plaster w/spillover 1,600 gal spa natural stone waterfall & decking, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, Pentair Whisperflo 2 HP model WF-28, PB4 booster pump, Pentair FNS Plus Vertical Grid DE filter area 120 sq ft flow rate 96 rpm, Hayward pump for waterfall, Polaris 280, Aqualink RS8
    TF-100 + Speed Stir

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    Re: Only getting circulation to spa

    A/B program is one or the other type, IOW A or B. Never both.

    This is a Jandy one touch, or all button, yes?

    Maybe what you need at this point is to reset the memory. However, be prepared to have to rebuild the settings i.e. time, date, labels, programs, etc.

    I would first check for possible "layers" of programs that could be causing the pump to not shut off at the time you thought it should (possible second program keeping it on).

    Question, when the pump should be off, does the panel in the house show that it is off and you hear that the pump is still on? Or does the panel show that it is still on?
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    Re: Only getting circulation to spa

    Thank you, Pool Clown. Indeed, I had several layers, as you say, built into the programming that were sending too many messages to the equipment. Fortunately, I did not have to rebuild the entire programming scheme, but was able to locate the review section under program, find the extra layers (control panel inside is an aqua link RS 8 and outside a Jandy) and cancel just the two pieces of equipment that had these extra layers of programming, the pool and spa, and then reprogram them. I have to thank you and Jason because I'm not sure I would have figured it out on my own and probably would have had to call a technician. Jason picked up on the controller and then you gave me even more info. Thanks so very much!!!

    I am happy to report that after finding the "layers," canceling them and reprogramming the pool and spa, everything seems to be working properly. I find out for sure at four pm if spa mode switches on...but the pool is circulating as it should since 9 am as programmed, so, AWESOME! Thanks again.
    1999 23,000 gal IG plaster w/spillover 1,600 gal spa natural stone waterfall & decking, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, Pentair Whisperflo 2 HP model WF-28, PB4 booster pump, Pentair FNS Plus Vertical Grid DE filter area 120 sq ft flow rate 96 rpm, Hayward pump for waterfall, Polaris 280, Aqualink RS8
    TF-100 + Speed Stir

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