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Thread: Pool-care in a german pool

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    Pool-care in a german pool

    Hi all,

    america ist much more known for pools and spas than germany. Outdoor-pools have been very exotic in germany for a long time. This has changed over the last 7-10 years. In the meanwhile you can by e.g. intex and bestway-pools in german discounters, like aldi and lidl. Even if you can't believe, we have very warm summers in germany, too. My pool temp. last year between June and September was around 25-28°C. with only 5,2 m² of sun collectors. I have an inground-pool, round, 4,5 diam., 1,5 m. deep.

    I learned, there are many differences between the american and german way of running a pool. Maybe you are interested in reading, how I run my pool.

    The intex and bestway pool-sets are delivered with small cartridge filters, which are very weak and not able, to run a pool properly. Because of this, many people are of the opinion, cartridge filters are bad. That's wrong of course, but it is the reason, why in general sand-filters are being used much more in germany.

    Prof. cartridge filters, like hayward, StaRite etc. are highly efficient, but cartridge replacement is very expensive and the cleaning takes a lot of time. Sand filters are backwashed quickly once a week for 3-5 minutes and the filtration-media can be run for several years. So we add approx. 500-700 litres of fresh water every week. Until 3-4 years ago, sand was the more or less only known filter media in germany. Then glas media came up. Many people I know changed from sand to crushed glas (AFM / EGFM) or glas-bubbels 0,5-1,0 mm diam.

    The best known sanitizer is chlorine, manually added or SWG. Since 2-3 years many people switched to anorg. chlorine (e.g. HTH-shock, HTH-briquettes <what I use>, appprox. 10 of 7g. Tbl. with warm weather every day). The problems being caused ba cyanuric-acid is highly discussed in german pool-forums.

    Some people use stabilizer (cyanuric acid) to 20-30 ppm., but most don't use it. I don't have cya in my water as well.
    Chlorine levels in german pools are recommended between 0,3-0,6 ppm. That's the reason, why people, who do not know so much about running a popl and the effects of cyanuric-acid, have problems with green water and alga, because with a level of 40 ppm. cya around 50 % of chlorine ist not free to sanitize. Most people I know, run their pool with 1-2 free chlorine und do a chlorine shock of 3-6 ppm. once a month.

    In germany we run our pools with a pH between 6,8 and 7,2, because that's the range, chlorine works best. Very often I read, you in america run a pool with a pH level between 7,4-7,8. Why do you da that, what's the reason?

    Some people here use anti-alga, some don't. I use it once a week (quateräre-Ammoniumverbindung). Agents like copper-sulfate or silver-ions are rarely used, because they highly harm our nature.

    Although I don't use SWC I added sea-salt to my water (23.000 litres/75 kg. salt). My father and I are suffering from neurodermitis and like salt water very much. The skin feels smouth and not dryed-out.

    I'm looking forward to "awaking" my pool this weekend!

    Ciao
    Marcus because my pool is one of my biggest hobbies.

    ps: hope my english is not too bad

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Pool-care in a german pool

    Quote Originally Posted by Natatoria View Post
    In germany we run our pools with a pH between 6,8 and 7,2, because that's the range, chlorine works best. Very often I read, you in america run a pool with a pH level between 7,4-7,8. Why do you da that, what's the reason?
    This has to do with CYA, eye irritation, and minimizing PH drift.

    When CYA is zero, chlorine is significantly more effective at lower PH levels. However when using CYA the PH has only a very small effect on chlorine effectiveness, which can be ignored.

    We get many reports of eye irritation when PH is below 7.2.

    PH tends to drift up when you have relatively high TA, relatively low PH, and a source of aeration (for example a SWG). We recommend relatively low TA and relatively high PH to minimize this PH drift.
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    Re: Pool-care in a german pool

    Hi Jason,

    thanks for your answer. I don't know, how high my TA is. I use tap water with pH 7,8-8,0. You are right, when the water is fresh, pH drifts up for approx. 2 weeks. I add sulfuric-acid 50% to keep pH 7,0. After 2-3 weeks the water remains more or less stable. When I refill water after a backwash, I add 50 ml. of sulfuric-acid.
    Luckily I don't have problems with eye-irritation. Don't you think eye-irritation is more often caused by chloramine than low pH?

    Ciao
    Marcus

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    Re: Pool-care in a german pool

    Eye irritation can occur for several different reasons. Certainly some cases are caused by chloramine. Still there are too many reports of eye irritation associated with low PH for there to not to be some connection.

    When using our recommended methods of pool care chloramine levels are kept exceedingly low. So that isn't really a big issue for most of the people we talk to. Though it does come up now and then.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Pool-care in a german pool

    Just a couple thoughts as I read your post:
    1. You may not need to backwash the filter that often. We recommend only cleaning the filters (cart or sand or DE) when the pressure rises 20-25% over the clean pressure. With a big enough filter, some members only clean their filter once a year.

    2. The sand in the filter will last longer that your pool. There is hardly ever a reason to have to replace it.

    3. If you maintain adequate FC levels that are a function of your CYA level, then you should not need to "shock" on a weekly basis or ever.

    4. pH in the range that you mention does not really affect the effectiveness of the chlorine very much if there is any CYA in the water. But keeping it that low could cause problems. We recommend anywhere in the mid to upper 7s.

    5. Again if proper FC levels are maintained, there is never a need to use algeacides or metal ions.

    6. Eye irritation could be due to CC or a pH that is too low. If proper FC levels are maintained, then CC in an outdoor residential pool is never a problem.

    I hope you have found Pool School as there is a lot of information about the methods and chemistry that we teach.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Pool-care in a german pool

    Hi Jason,

    thanks for you thoughts.

    Well, I backwash my sand filter every 3 or 4 weeks for 4 minutes and rinse 1 minute. My chlorine is 1,5-2,0 permanently, I shock up to 5 ppm. once a month to burn chloramines. I like to refill fresh water regularly. I use algeacide (quartäre Ammoniumverbindung) once a week, I know, there is no real need for .

    What das CC mean? Chloramines, or how do you call it?

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Pool-care in a german pool

    CC = Combined Chlorine which includes chloramines I believe:
    ABCs of Water Chemistry

    Well, if what you are doing works for you, so be it. But it does not exactly mesh with what we teach and likely you could improve your process and save some money by integrating some of our methods.

    For example, why do you like to add fresh water regularly? There is just no need.
    And by adding some CYA, you will protect the chlorine from the sun and thus have to add less of it each day even if the actual FC level is higher, thus saving money.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Pool-care in a german pool

    Hi Jason,

    I will read pool-school this evening, thanks!

    Changing a higher amount of water regularly might be done to eliminate cys from the water. I'd say 90-95 % of pool owners in germany use stabilized chlorine, 5-10 % anorg. chlorine. With every dosage of org. chlorine the cys-level will increase. To prevent problems, sandfilters are backwashed often, to change water and reduce cys. One problem is that anorg. chlorine is hard to send by delivery-service, because it's labeled as "hazardous-goods", org. chlorine is not labeled as that.

    What, in your oppinion, is the best level of cys in an outdoor-pool, to prevent chlorine fading away so fast, but on the other hand having a high level of sanitizing, free chlorine?

    Ciao
    Marcus

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    Re: Pool-care in a german pool

    CYA around 30 to 50 is our recommended level for normal situations. Higher CYA levels, 70-80, are recommended for pools with a SWG (salt system).

    In both cases FC levels are adjusted so the active chlorine levels are the same, despite the effects of the CYA.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Pool-care in a german pool

    Your questions are answered in Pool School. The CYA should be between 30-50ppm the required FC level is listed in the FC/CYA chart.

    And I have no idea what org and anorg chlorine means.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Pool-care in a german pool

    Hi Jason,

    anorg. chlorine ist e.g. calciumhypochlorit, org. chlorine is (in germany) chlorine stabilized with cys.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Pool-care in a german pool

    Do you have liquid chlorine / bleach available? That is the best thing to use since there are no side effects.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Pool-care in a german pool

    Yes, liquid chlorine is available, but I usually use HTH-Briquettes 7 g. pills (Calciumhypochlorit 65%). My cys level is 0,0.
    You mean liquid is better, because it doesn't increase the hardness?

    Ciao
    Marcus

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Pool-care in a german pool

    Correct. With liquid you only get a little salt which is harmless (also over here if you look at the cost per ppm of FC it is usually the cheapest). With Cal-hypo you are raising your CH (calcium hardness) which can eventually contribute to calcium scaling. With Trichlor / Dichlor (stabilized chlorine) you are adding CYA which will eventually result in inadequate chlorine and your pool turning cloudy/green.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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