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Thread: Check system: low volts

  1. Back To Top    #1

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    Check system: low volts

    We installed a replacement pump for the waterfall. We had a Pentair Dynamo 1 horsepower and replaced with a Hayward Power Flo 1 horsepower (same amps/same volts, etc.) Everything went fine until...The pump was primed and water came out the top of the waterfall as it was supposed to. Then it ran for about 30 seconds, the AquaLogic board came up with a "check system/low volts/chlorinator off" message, and the waterfall pump shut down. Since it's the weekend the chances of getting someone to look at it are slim. And do we call an electrician or a pool company? Or is it something we might be able to repair? Any ideas?

    jeannebbooks
    18,000 gallons inground irregular shape, AquaLogic SWG, Jandy CL 340 filter, Jandy pump, waterfall with new Hayward Power Flo pump.

    new and learning!
    South Louisiana

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    Re: Check system: low volts

    Sorry to hear of your problems.

    The "Low Volts" error message indicates that the chlorinator cell (SWG) voltage is too low. It would be interesting to see the cell amps and volts. To enter the Diagnostic Menu, press the "Menu" button on the local (or remote) display repeatedly until the display shows "Diagnostic Menu". At this point, you can use either the "<" or ">" buttons to scroll through the various menu items. The first menu item should show the cell amp, cell volts, water temperature at the cell, and the salt level at the cell.

    I'm not sure why the pump would shut down if the chlorinator cell was having problems.

    Let us know what you find out.

    Titanium
    24,000 gallon inground freeform pool/spa circa 1983 (113 ft perimeter, 625 sq ft) with 350 gallon attached spill-over spa
    2007 2 HP, three-phase Hayward TriStar pump which is powered by an Ikeric VS-200 variable speed drive system
    1983 Laars XE Pool/Spa Heater Type ES 400,000 BTU, 1998 Hayward Super Star-Clear C-4000 cartridge filter (400 sq ft, 4 separate cartridges)
    1998 Polaris 380 pressure-side cleaner w/ 3/4 HP booster pump
    One skimmer :( and one PoolSkim :), One Supervision Galaxy LED pool lamp, Second story solar panels
    Hayward/GoldLine AquaLogic PS4 (replaced 1983 vintage dual circuit Intermatic timer)

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    Re: Check system: low volts

    Thanks for the response. Interestingly enough, we've wondered if the SWG has ever worked correctly. (we've had the cell checked, cleaned it, and checked again) . This year getting the water clear and balanced has been a struggle. All the pool stores say is "Well, ever since Katrina..." So finding this website has been wonderful!
    We followed your instructions, but there were only readings of salt level and temperature on the inside remote; no amps, etc. Often the lights on the inside unit will go out and within seconds come back on. It also says "base unit not responding" fairly frequently. Goldline has replaced the outside board several times in the 4 years we've had the pool and we've had problems with the pool lights not working as well. It's dark here now, so in the morning we'll take a look at the outside unit and post our findings.
    This forum has been great at helping us clear our pool and learn so much. Our new test kit should arrive next week. So keep walking me through and maybe soon we'll really be "rockin'"

    jeannebbooks
    18,000 gallons inground irregular shape, AquaLogic SWG, Jandy CL 340 filter, Jandy pump, waterfall with new Hayward Power Flo pump.

    new and learning!
    South Louisiana

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    Re: Check system: low volts

    Often the lights on the inside unit will go out and within seconds come back on. It also says "base unit not responding" fairly frequently.
    It sounds like some sort of intermittent connection between the main circuit board and the local display panel. Or maybe an intermittent connection between the main circuit board and the internal power transformer inside the AquaLogic panel. Intermittent faults are the pits to try and trace down.

    Goldline has replaced the outside board several times in the 4 years we've had the pool and we've had problems with the pool lights not working as well.
    That is interesting that you have had to have the board replaced a bunch of times. Is there any correlation to when the board seems to fail and storms?

    Are the pool lights operated through the AquaLogic unit only or do you have physical switches for the pool lights also?

    Titanium
    24,000 gallon inground freeform pool/spa circa 1983 (113 ft perimeter, 625 sq ft) with 350 gallon attached spill-over spa
    2007 2 HP, three-phase Hayward TriStar pump which is powered by an Ikeric VS-200 variable speed drive system
    1983 Laars XE Pool/Spa Heater Type ES 400,000 BTU, 1998 Hayward Super Star-Clear C-4000 cartridge filter (400 sq ft, 4 separate cartridges)
    1998 Polaris 380 pressure-side cleaner w/ 3/4 HP booster pump
    One skimmer :( and one PoolSkim :), One Supervision Galaxy LED pool lamp, Second story solar panels
    Hayward/GoldLine AquaLogic PS4 (replaced 1983 vintage dual circuit Intermatic timer)

  5. Back To Top    #5

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    Re: Check system: low volts

    Again, thanks! This morning the remote(inside) unit said:
    Volts +24.69 Amps +5.46 Temp 83 Instant salt 2800

    When we turned on the waterfall, the system showed "low volts/ chlorinator off". We went to the outside unit's diagnostic menu and attempted to turn it back on while the waterfall was on and both were running. The volts shot up quickly and we cut it off when it got to -50. The amps began to shoot up just as quickly but we cut it off immediately before something worse happened so we didn't get an amps reading but both were in negative numbers.

    We think the "low volts" is in reference to the system as a whole, not just the chlorinator. The outside board has been replaced several times but not at any special time or because of any particular event. None of our issues were a direct result of Katrina other than no electricity for weeks and a swampy, nasty debris-filled pool.

    As strange as it is, we've had 2 salt pools built by the same builder in the same neighborhood in the last 10 years. One never had a problem, and this one has never been right. The main difference is that the first was a timer-type system and this is all computer-based. In southeast Louisiana, maybe outside computer boards just don't do well.

    So is the next step an electrician or a pool company? Or can you think of anything else we can do?

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    Re: Check system: low volts

    As you've been through a few motherboards already, and still have the same problem, you might have the pool guys try a new cell in the unit and see how it behaves (I'm NOT saying to buy a new cell, just have them swap out a new cell with yours real quick and see if the numbers agree) - we carry an extra cell on our service van for this and it's a quick and sure way to test to see if there might be something wrong with the cell itself

    As for the intermittent communication between the remote and the base unit - wherew are you when it won't communicate- the way these things work, there are dead zones in the signal being sent (think of ripples from a drop of water in a still pond - at the nodes you won't get the signal) - next time it happens try moving 5- 10 feet away from the unit. If your inside remote is mounted - this obviously isn't what's happening, but interference from some nearby electronic device could be the cause.
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    Re: Check system: low volts

    As for the intermittent communication between the remote and the base unit - where are you when it won't communicate- the way these things work, there are dead zones in the signal being sent (think of ripples from a drop of water in a still pond - at the nodes you won't get the signal) - next time it happens try moving 5- 10 feet away from the unit. If your inside remote is mounted - this obviously isn't what's happening, but interference from some nearby electronic device could be the cause.[quote]

    Well, that's a real possibility! The inside wall remote unit is mounted next to the phone jack and the fax machine/printer! Seems that the builder would have thought of that when he put it there, but ...
    As to the cell, we'll have to find a local pool guy. We'll let you know what happens. Thanks!

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    Re: Check system: low volts

    This seems to be part of the "never ending story." This morning I talked to 3 electricians who told me to call pool guys (even though they advertised pools and spas in their ads) and 2 pool guys who told me to call electricians. Finally one electrician came out, spent about an hour, checked everything and couldn't seem to find the problem. The new pump will run for a short time, get very hot, and shut down. Running it on an extension cord to the house seems to make it pump more water, but obviously that's not a final solution. The electrician first thought maybe the two pumps weren't interchangeable but according to pump authorities they are compatible. He changed things around and wired them into different places, but nothing seemed to stand out as THE PROBLEM. The final thought was that the AquaLogic was ok; that maybe the pool builder didn't correctly wire the panel to adequately carry all it had to handle. That would explain lots of motherbords, lights that worked off and on, and the waterfall pump issue. So the saga continues.

    Are the pumps interchangeable?

    Any thoughts?

    jeannebbooks
    18,000 gallons inground irregular shape,flagstone coping, Sundeck, AquaLogic SWG, Polaris 380, Jandy CL 340 filter, Jandy pump, Rico Rock and flagstone waterfall with new Hayward Power Flo LX pump.

    new and learning!
    South Louisiana

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    Re: Check system: low volts

    jeannebbooks,

    Can you post a picture of the internals of your AquaLogic pool panel? To be safe, you should go to your main house panel and turn off the two-pole circuit breaker feeding the AquaLogic panel. Then you can take off the internal cover at the AquaLogic panel and this will uncover all of the internal wiring.

    With the internal wiring uncovered, perhap we can spot any wiring errors from the original installation. And having the internal wiring uncovered will also let you take some different electrical measurements for us.

    Be careful. 240 Volts can be a shocking experience.

    Titanium
    24,000 gallon inground freeform pool/spa circa 1983 (113 ft perimeter, 625 sq ft) with 350 gallon attached spill-over spa
    2007 2 HP, three-phase Hayward TriStar pump which is powered by an Ikeric VS-200 variable speed drive system
    1983 Laars XE Pool/Spa Heater Type ES 400,000 BTU, 1998 Hayward Super Star-Clear C-4000 cartridge filter (400 sq ft, 4 separate cartridges)
    1998 Polaris 380 pressure-side cleaner w/ 3/4 HP booster pump
    One skimmer :( and one PoolSkim :), One Supervision Galaxy LED pool lamp, Second story solar panels
    Hayward/GoldLine AquaLogic PS4 (replaced 1983 vintage dual circuit Intermatic timer)

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    Re: Check system: low volts

    Titanium, I'll gladly do that.We're having out daily thunderstorm right now so it will be later before I take those pictures. 240 volts is more than I want to play with. Besides, teaching for many years has left me little hair to spare (what didn't turn gray, turned loose!), so I have no urgency to fry the few I have left!!

    I'll get to it asap and thanks! This has been a learning experience for all of us! You all have been so helpful in getting us to this point.

    BTW, I just discovered that the 18,000 gallons my pool builder quoted is actually closer to 24,000 gallons.

    jeannebbooks
    18,000 (really 24,000) gallons inground irregular shape,flagstone coping, Sundeck, AquaLogic SWG, Polaris 380, Jandy CL 340 filter, Jandy pump, Rico Rock and flagstone waterfall with new Hayward Power Flo LX pump replacing a Pentair Dynamo.

    new and learning!
    South Louisiana

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    Re: Check system: low volts

    my first thought is that the new pump is causing the voltage at your AquaLogic panel. The pump running hot is also indication of this. One thing to check is the voltage connection of your new pump. Most pool pumps can be connected to run at either 120 volts or 240 volts. The Aqualogic can supply either one to your pump. If the pump is supplied via a double pole breaker in the AquaLogic then the pump must be wired for 240 volts. If only one breaker is used, then most likely the pump must be wired for 120 volts. If the pump runs on a normal extension cord then it is connected for 120 volts. If the 120 volt connected pump is then connected to 240 volts it will draw high amps and pull down the voltage at the Aqualogic. If you have volt meter, you can also measure the voltages.
    7,500 gal, IG pool, L shape 22' x 15', 1.5 hp pump, cartridge filter, AquaPlus SWG/Controller, Pebble-Tec liner.

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    Re: Check system: low volts

    dschlic1,

    Good thoughts about the new pump perhaps being part of the problem.

    jeanne, I had missed this comment/observation of yours before:

    We went to the outside unit's diagnostic menu and attempted to turn it back on while the waterfall was on and both were running. The volts shot up quickly and we cut it off when it got to -50. The amps began to shoot up just as quickly...
    This is a very interesting observation. It is almost as if the SWG wasn't getting feedback that the voltage being asked for was actually being supplied, so the SWG keeps asking for more and more voltage. As the voltage at the SWG goes up, one would expect the amps to keep going up also. What is strange is that the AquaLogic display obviously sees the correct SWG voltage, but some other feedback loop isn't getting the same signal. The problem, of course, is that none of us have a circuit diagram for the guts of the AquaLogic circuit boards, so it makes that low-level kind of troubleshooting very difficult.

    How long have you had the AquaLogic controller? Is it still under some kind of warranty with either the pool builder of Hayward/Goldline? Even if it isn't still under warranty, many times Hayward/Goldline will offer technical support and troubleshooting on their 800 technical support phone line.

    Also, when you say that the pump will "get very hot", how hot are you talking about. Many motors will run at what seems a high temperature, but it may still be running correctly. A fully loaded motor, which yours may or not be - it all depends on how much mechanical load that the pump impeller is calling for, can be expected to have up to a 40 degree Celsius (104 deg F) rise above ambient temperature. My motor, for example, does not have a 40 deg C rise, but on a warm day (90's) it will easily get hot enough so that I can only keep my hand on the motor housing for only 2-10 seconds without burning myself.

    Titanium
    24,000 gallon inground freeform pool/spa circa 1983 (113 ft perimeter, 625 sq ft) with 350 gallon attached spill-over spa
    2007 2 HP, three-phase Hayward TriStar pump which is powered by an Ikeric VS-200 variable speed drive system
    1983 Laars XE Pool/Spa Heater Type ES 400,000 BTU, 1998 Hayward Super Star-Clear C-4000 cartridge filter (400 sq ft, 4 separate cartridges)
    1998 Polaris 380 pressure-side cleaner w/ 3/4 HP booster pump
    One skimmer :( and one PoolSkim :), One Supervision Galaxy LED pool lamp, Second story solar panels
    Hayward/GoldLine AquaLogic PS4 (replaced 1983 vintage dual circuit Intermatic timer)

  13. Back To Top    #13

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    Re: Check system: low volts

    Thanks for all the advice. An electrician came out and looked, and left bewildered. He really wasn't familiar with the AquaLogic system, but he hooked and unhooked things and kept testing the volts/amps and showed me how they weren't what they were supposed to be. The waterfall pump would get as hot as Titanium mentioned almost immediately, but the regular Jandy filter was hotter than it should have been, too. At first the electrician thought that the wire to the AquaLogic and breaker box was the wrong gauge; then the box wasn't big enough to handle the breakers, etc. He was guessing every thing he could think of. I was a little confused though since the pool builder's electrician should have done all of that right since he did it often . (It was the pool builder who goofed up most of the time). The electrician left with the idea I needed to run new wires to the whole thing.
    It rained all afternoon so I couldn't take pictures or try anything else. But I did read the manual AGAIN. Suddenly the words seemed to jump off the page." If you experience low voltage, call your power company." I did and explained the problem. At first they told me to get an electrician but when I explained it was a low voltage issue and "the book" insisted I call them, they sent out a man within an hour. He went to the underground box from the subdivision, and said, "Well this is your problem." The box had been cracked and the neutral (ground) was corroded and not making contact. He told me it probably had been that way for a long time and could easily have been the reason the SWG never seemed to make chlorine like it should, the lights wouldn't work, the waterfall motor went out, and we replaced so many motherboards, etc. He'll be back tomorrow and we'll see what happens next. I NEVER would have guessed that could have been the problem. Oh, and he said it was a miracle we weren't electrocuted when we changed the pump. Great! So we're waiting till tomorrow to see the next part of this story unfold.

    See...sometimes it pays to READ!!
    Now we'll see what happens tomorrow.

    Thanks y'all! We've all had a brain workout!!



    jeannebbooks
    18,000 (really 24,000) gallons inground irregular shape,flagstone coping, Sundeck, AquaLogic SWG, Polaris 380, Jandy CL 340 filter, Jandy pump, Rico Rock and flagstone waterfall with new Hayward Power Flo LX pump replacing a Pentair Dynamo.

    new and learning!
    South Louisiana

  14. Back To Top    #14

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    Re: Check system: low volts

    jeannebbooks,

    Congratulations on finding the problem!!

    It is much better that you were able to get the utility out to find the problem. We may have been able to find the problem eventually with you taking voltage measurements inside the AquaLogic pool panel, but this way is certainly safer (and faster!). I'm still amazed that you were able to get the utility out so fast - way to go!

    A bad neutral from the utility is certainly not unheard of. Although I would have thought you would have noticed other problems/symptoms in other parts of your house electrical system.

    I wonder if you can backcharge the utility for all of the repair work and lost swim time?

    Titanium
    24,000 gallon inground freeform pool/spa circa 1983 (113 ft perimeter, 625 sq ft) with 350 gallon attached spill-over spa
    2007 2 HP, three-phase Hayward TriStar pump which is powered by an Ikeric VS-200 variable speed drive system
    1983 Laars XE Pool/Spa Heater Type ES 400,000 BTU, 1998 Hayward Super Star-Clear C-4000 cartridge filter (400 sq ft, 4 separate cartridges)
    1998 Polaris 380 pressure-side cleaner w/ 3/4 HP booster pump
    One skimmer :( and one PoolSkim :), One Supervision Galaxy LED pool lamp, Second story solar panels
    Hayward/GoldLine AquaLogic PS4 (replaced 1983 vintage dual circuit Intermatic timer)

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    Re: Check system: low volts

    I wonder if you can backcharge the utility for all of the repair work and lost swim time?

    Ha good luck on that. I once was involved with a municpal water treatment plant for which the power company reversed phase rotation during a thunder storm. Even with city lawyers nothing was done!
    7,500 gal, IG pool, L shape 22' x 15', 1.5 hp pump, cartridge filter, AquaPlus SWG/Controller, Pebble-Tec liner.

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    Re: Check system: low volts

    Yeah, I don't have a good track record with utilities either.

    Titanium
    24,000 gallon inground freeform pool/spa circa 1983 (113 ft perimeter, 625 sq ft) with 350 gallon attached spill-over spa
    2007 2 HP, three-phase Hayward TriStar pump which is powered by an Ikeric VS-200 variable speed drive system
    1983 Laars XE Pool/Spa Heater Type ES 400,000 BTU, 1998 Hayward Super Star-Clear C-4000 cartridge filter (400 sq ft, 4 separate cartridges)
    1998 Polaris 380 pressure-side cleaner w/ 3/4 HP booster pump
    One skimmer :( and one PoolSkim :), One Supervision Galaxy LED pool lamp, Second story solar panels
    Hayward/GoldLine AquaLogic PS4 (replaced 1983 vintage dual circuit Intermatic timer)

  17. Back To Top    #17

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    Re: Check system: low volts

    Well, it's been a day since the utility company came and did emergency repairs. They still have to make permanent repairs at the street level and I thought that might happen yesterday, but it didn't. The problems, though, (cross your fingers!) seem to be resolved. We ran the waterfall most of the day at different intervals. It had great pressure, ran well, and never overheated or shut itself off.
    The lights still don't work, but that could be a different problem. The remote unit doesn't flicker off and on and the SWG seems to have made chlorine overnight. So all in all, we're happy so far!
    The utility company guy mentioned that we had a claim against them. Like most of you, I've never been on the right side when dealing with the water or power companies so I'm not holding my breath waiting on that, but it is worth a try and if nothing else, it explains why we've had such problems.
    Because the pool was on a separate meter from the house, we never knew the problems could have been from the utility feeder line. It just goes to show how sometimes the solutions are the most basic ones...and don't forget to read the book!!
    We'll post some pictures later.







    jeannebbooks
    18,000 (really 24,000) gallons inground irregular shape,flagstone coping, Sundeck, AquaLogic SWG, Polaris 380, Jandy CL 340 filter, Jandy pump, Rico Rock and flagstone waterfall with new Hayward Power Flo LX pump replacing a Pentair Dynamo.

    new and learning!
    South Louisiana

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