Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 41

Thread: Foaming Problem

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Lawrenceville, GA
    Posts
    18

    Foaming Problem

    Hello,

    my spa foams when jets are running, and pool foams when backup valve for polaris pools cleaner brings it up to the surface.

    the pool is 25K with spa with 8 jets on the side.

    It has compool 3400 panel, whisperflo 1.5 hp pump, 48 DE filter, minimax heater, inline chorinator, nature2 cardridge, air blower for spa.

    The chemistry is as follows:

    FAC 2.0
    TAC 2.0
    Water PH 7.6
    TA 120
    CYA 30
    Calcium Hardness 230
    TDS 500
    Coper/Iron 0
    Phosphates 100

    I use Pool Perfect + phos free 3 cups / week in the skimmer

    Foam disolves on its own 20-30 seconds after jets stop running (water clears up), and after polaris goes to the bottom.

    If I wade with my hand or the brush in the pool while brushing the walls , the foam reappears and then disolves on its own

    It started last year in the middle of the season after I added 1 qt of black algie killer instead of regular algie control (green /mustard algie control) because the store did not have my brand at the time.

    The foaming was really bad for 6-8 weeks and was almost gone after using several gallons of defoamer (the spa used to have a head of foam like in the beer mug - about a foot high or so) ...

    So, now before new season starts I would like to get rid of this small foaming problem , but do not know how.

    Can you help please?

    Thank you in advance
    25K WP IG , DE 48 Pentair, 22 PSI, 2 HP single speed WhisperFlo Pentair,
    built June 1999, spa w/8 jets overflows into pool, polaris 360 cleaner,
    Nature2, inline chlorinator, MinMax Pool Heater

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SouthWest Alabama
    Posts
    22,347

    Re: Foaming Problem

    Welcome to TFP.

    There are several things that cause foaming. Algaecide is one and the rest of the "magic" potions (Pool Perfect and PhosFree) isn't helping. The nature2 isn't doing you any favors either.

    The best thing you can do is spend some time reading in Pool School, especially the ABC's of Pool Chemistry and start using the methods outlined there.

    I see that you list a CYA of 30 ppm, but you also use a tablet feeder. Unless you've just replaced a large portion of your water, I'd be highly suspect of that reading. It's most likely a lot higher than that.

    Now would also be a good time to get a good test kit and take control of your pool.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  3. Back To Top    #3
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    37,389

    Re: Foaming Problem

    Welcome to TFP!!!

    There are a lot of red flags in your post that are counter to what we generally teach here and I think Dave hit on most of them.
    - Trichlor tablet feeders can result in over stabilized pools that turn green due to lack of adequate chlorine
    - Nature 2 adds minerals to the water that can cause staining of the pool and green hair and really does nothing that chlorine along can't do.
    - We hardly ever recommend using any algeacides / Pool Perfect / PhosFree / etc ... there is no need if adequate chlorine is maintained.
    - Test results from a pool store which are generally regarded as inaccurate and inconsistent

    I would guess that your foaming is due to all the "extra" chemicals you are adding to your pool. First step would be to stop adding anything except chlorine (ideally liquid / bleach). You also need one of the Recommended Test Kits if you want to understand and control your pool's chemistry. And by reading Pool School you will likely know more about the chemistry than most of the pool store employees you have encountered. Start with these:
    ABCs of Water Chemistry
    Recommended Pool Chemicals
    How to Chlorinate Your Pool

    I would guess that if you maintain an elevated FC level for awhile and not add any more "potions" that the foaming will stop.

    How does your water look besides the foaming? Any cloudiness or visible algae?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Lawrenceville, GA
    Posts
    18

    Re: Foaming Problem

    Thank you for the prompt responses!

    The CYA of 30 was measured at the pool store where they test the water from my pool for the past 15 years (and yes, I was for years buying the algicide from them every spring summer when something was blooming in the neighbors' yards and I had to get rid of the green/yellow stains from my pool walls , except for that last year when on that dereadful day they did not have the regular algie control and I decided to try the black algie killer) , so their measurements are consistently between 30 and 45 for CYA throughout the years.

    Having said this , I will definetely read the Pool School instructions:

    ABCs of Water Chemistry
    Recommended Pool Chemicals
    How to Chlorinate Your Pool

    and will follow the advice there.

    The answer the the last posted questions: the water looks very clear and sparkling, there is no cloudness nor algie (yet give it sometime till june or july until something in my neighbours yeards blooms again ) ... however, and this is the kicker : after spa runs (and foams) , and I turn the jets off - (20-30 seconds later the foam disolves) but water stays milky for about 5-8 minutes (probably due to some elevelated levels of the anti-foam in it ) and then clears up again and becomes as sparkling as in the adjacent to it pool. I thnk that it might be due the the fact that the spill-over into the pool is there and at that point the whole system acts like a one big giant pool rather than separate pool and spa systems. Am I right, or do you have another idea / answer?

    I have a question : what do you mean by an elevated FC level for awhile ? 5-6? or higher. I did maintain that level for the past 4 months (Nov - Feb) because we did no use the pool in the winter but kept it running (the comppol has that freeze thingy that turns the pool/spa on/off intermittenly when air tem drops below certain level) .

    For how long should I maintain this elevated FC level and not adding any more potions for the foaming to stop?'

    Thank you in advance.

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Lawrenceville, GA
    Posts
    18

    Re: Foaming Problem

    I just wanted to add : the pool store that I use is Leslie's , and they already are using the recommended Taylor kit .

  6. Back To Top    #6
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SouthWest Alabama
    Posts
    22,347

    Re: Foaming Problem

    We see it all the time. They may be using the Taylor kit but time after time their results don't match an individual's test results.

    You'd think they'd be pretty close but in real world samples pH is about the only thing they are consistently close on. And CYA is the one thing they're the most wrong on. It's much better to do your own testing.

  7. Back To Top    #7

    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Lawrenceville, GA
    Posts
    18

    Re: Foaming Problem

    Thank you, Dave .. will purchase my own Taylor kit and remeasure.
    25K WP IG , DE 48 Pentair, 22 PSI, 2 HP single speed WhisperFlo Pentair,
    built June 1999, spa w/8 jets overflows into pool, polaris 360 cleaner,
    Nature2, inline chlorinator, MinMax Pool Heater

  8. Back To Top    #8
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    37,389

    Re: Foaming Problem

    According to the FC/CYA Chart, and assuming (pretty big assumption here until you test for yourself) that your CYA is 30ppm, then you need to maintain a FC level that is NEVER below 2ppm ... so generally we would recommend raising it to 4-5ppm everyday so it does not drop below the minimum. Now since there may be "stuff" in the pool causing the foaming, you may want to maintain the FC a little higher, say 8-10ppm to help break it down. Still perfectly safe to swim at these levels if that is a concern.

    How long you need to do this depends on how long it takes the foaming to stop.

    Did you even mention how you have been chlorinating for the last 15 years? I am kind of surprised your CYA is as low as they claim unless you have not been using solid chlorine and/or have often replaced a lot of water.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Lawrenceville, GA
    Posts
    18

    Re: Foaming Problem

    Hello Jason, thankyou for the response . ...most of my pool is in the shade of very tall trees during the day in the summer, it is not like indoor but very little sun falls on the pool during the day . Yes , i've been using stingy sticks for the first 6 years before switching to tablets from Leslies, and shock it once a month. As for replacing water : I backwash the DE filter often and fill the pool afterwards to maintain proper level ... will this explain CYA being normal and not too high? Are you saying that it is safe to swim in the pool when FC is 10 ppm? Will raising CH reduce the foaming? I did an experiment today : I removed the blower while spa was running and covered the pipe to prevent from sucking air, and the foaming has almost but stopped due to air not coming from the 5 jets only from 3 others (faulty plumbing perhaps?) , as soon as I un-covered the pipe the air bubbles caused foaming to re-appear.

    I will take water sample to another independent pool store rather than national chain and compare their test with Taylor kit that should arrive in a week or so.
    25K WP IG , DE 48 Pentair, 22 PSI, 2 HP single speed WhisperFlo Pentair,
    built June 1999, spa w/8 jets overflows into pool, polaris 360 cleaner,
    Nature2, inline chlorinator, MinMax Pool Heater

  10. Back To Top    #10
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    37,389

    Re: Foaming Problem

    It is safe to swim up to the FC level that is listed as "shock" or SLAM level in the chart I referenced. If your CYA were 80ppm, it would be safe to swim at a FC of 30ppm ... which would still be less active chlorine than in a public, non-stabilized pool.

    I do not think you CH is low enough to be the cause of the foaming.

    Only some backwashing does not seem like it would be enough to counter the CYA rise to exclusive use of tablets ... so I am not sure I believe the 30ppm number.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  11. Back To Top    #11
    Patrick_B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Midland TX
    Posts
    15,001

    Re: Foaming Problem

    Welcome to TFP Alex. You've gotten great advice from some of our best. Just wanted to say enjoy the forum.
    TFP Moderator
    Essential Links:
    ABC's Of Pool Chemistry, Test Kits, SLAM Your Pool
    28K Gal IG FreeForm, CLI Quartz, Pentair 36"SF & VS Pump, Dolphin M5, Rheem

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Lawrenceville, GA
    Posts
    18

    Re: Foaming Problem

    Thank you Patrick ! Will double check the stablizer numbers/ reading and update the thread after I do.
    25K WP IG , DE 48 Pentair, 22 PSI, 2 HP single speed WhisperFlo Pentair,
    built June 1999, spa w/8 jets overflows into pool, polaris 360 cleaner,
    Nature2, inline chlorinator, MinMax Pool Heater

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Lawrenceville, GA
    Posts
    18

    Re: Foaming Problem

    Hello Jason, Dave et al.,

    here are the numbers from two independednt pool stores:

    1:

    FAC 4.0
    TAC 4.0
    Water PH 7.6
    TA 100
    CYA 30
    Calcium Hardness 260
    TDS 1000
    Coper/Iron 0
    Phosphates 0

    2:

    FAC 5.0
    TAC 5.0
    Water PH 7.8
    TA 120
    CYA 20
    Calcium Hardness 280
    TDS 600
    Phosphates 100

    and here are with mine test kit:

    Chlorine : 4.0
    Water PH 7.4
    TA 90
    CYA 40

    Do you think if after I just drop 1/3 of the pool water and refill it from my regular water supply the foaming may stop?

    Thanks
    25K WP IG , DE 48 Pentair, 22 PSI, 2 HP single speed WhisperFlo Pentair,
    built June 1999, spa w/8 jets overflows into pool, polaris 360 cleaner,
    Nature2, inline chlorinator, MinMax Pool Heater

  14. Back To Top    #14
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    37,389

    Re: Foaming Problem

    Maybe, if you are lucky. Although does not look like you have SLAMed or even bothered to raise the FC level.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Lawrenceville, GA
    Posts
    18

    Re: Foaming Problem

    Hello Jason,

    for over a week now I've been maintaning the following levels:

    Chlorine : 10-12
    Water PH 7.2- 7.6
    TA 100-120
    CYA 40 -60

    with no visible change in foaming.

    Question : for my size pool 25K how much Clorox - how many gallons the stuff that they sell at Home DEpot or Wal mart - do I need to add to kill the stuff that cause foaming in my spa and pool?

    Thank you in advance.
    25K WP IG , DE 48 Pentair, 22 PSI, 2 HP single speed WhisperFlo Pentair,
    built June 1999, spa w/8 jets overflows into pool, polaris 360 cleaner,
    Nature2, inline chlorinator, MinMax Pool Heater

  16. Back To Top    #16
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    37,389

    Re: Foaming Problem

    Is your CYA 40 or 60? Why such big ranges on the values?

    SLAM level for 40ppm CYA is a FC of 16ppm, for 60ppm it is 24ppm ... so you are no where near the appropriate FC levels. It takes as much bleach as it takes ... no way for us to know what is in your water.

    Have you tried to Perform the Overnight Chlorine Loss Test.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  17. Back To Top    #17
    Casey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    SW PA
    Posts
    10,157

    Re: Foaming Problem

    Have you considered buying your own test kit and taking control of your pool instead of using the pool store/s for testing that range so unpredictably?

    Elevating your chlorine will, in time, disintegrate the algaecide and stop it from foaming. If you shock the pool to SLAM levels (you need an accurate CYA Level and your own test kit) you will speed the process.

    Can we get a look see at your pool water?
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Lawrenceville, GA
    Posts
    18

    Re: Foaming Problem

    The CYA is 40. Perhaps the shades of the color got me thinking that it might have been higher. Oh, well.

    I did the Overnight chlorine loss test : the pool is not loosing any chlorine.

    It was 10 ppm last night, and still 10 ppm this morning. Kinda high for me : in the past even when I shocked the pool I would not let it go beyond 5 . I alwyas tried to maintain it between 2-3 ppm.

    But I super-chlorinate it based on your previous advice so it is what it is now.

    I will try to drop 1/3 of the pool water/level next week, and will post my results then.

    Thank you for all your help and advice.
    25K WP IG , DE 48 Pentair, 22 PSI, 2 HP single speed WhisperFlo Pentair,
    built June 1999, spa w/8 jets overflows into pool, polaris 360 cleaner,
    Nature2, inline chlorinator, MinMax Pool Heater

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    1,079

    Re: Foaming Problem

    Alex,
    What test kit are you using? I've never seen one where CYA is measured in colors. I know its been suggested but I'll say it again. Read pool school. Based on your last post you need to review the relationship between CYA and CL. Look here:

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...ater-chemistry

    Scroll down to CYA.

    Chris
    TFP Moderator Chris V. ~16K Pool & Spa, 48NSF DE, IG Plaster Circa 2000, Intermatic PE653, Challenger pump with a 2 speed B2984, 20gal stenner chlorine injection, Houston, TX
    One cannot follow Islam and Christianity at the same time, nor can one follow pool store methods and TFP at the same time.
    Pool School -- Pool Math -- TF-Test Kit

  20. Back To Top    #20
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    37,389

    Re: Foaming Problem

    As I suspected, sounds like you are using test strips which are absolutely worthless. Get yourself one of the recommended test kits if you want to take control. Like I said before, you FC is not high enough for the SLAM process.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •