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Thread: Original Install Valve question.

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    Original Install Valve question.

    My pool is about 15 years and I am performing a massive pump, filter re-do.

    Why did the original installer use this odd valve instead of two simple on/off valves. Possibly it is old or a bad valve but I have never been able to turn off both inputs (skimmer/main drain) simultaneously.

    I plan on removing it entirely and putting an inline shut off valve on the two inputs.



    18 x 36' Liner ~26,000g, 1 Skimmer (Supply)- 2 & 1 1/2" pipe, 3 Returns (jets), HEAD- ?, FILTER- Hayward 12002, 230v, SWG- AUTOPILOT DIG-220, PUMP- Challenger 346204 w/ USA MOTOR (rebuilt) SF 1.25/,02, CLEANER- Polaris 280- AO Smith 3/4hp., FEATURE- Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Original Install Valve question.

    It is very common to use 3 way valves that like (and much preferred over cheap PVC ball valves).

    The position that the valve handle is in now should be shutting off both of the suction lines ... you may just need to replace the internal seals.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: Original Install Valve question.

    yes did some research it is a good thing.
    it only leaks slightly.
    I think it would be better if the 2 "ins" came into the 2 opposite ends ant the pump in was the 90 degree T....That seems to be what I see on the internet.

    This is part of the re-build plan
    18 x 36' Liner ~26,000g, 1 Skimmer (Supply)- 2 & 1 1/2" pipe, 3 Returns (jets), HEAD- ?, FILTER- Hayward 12002, 230v, SWG- AUTOPILOT DIG-220, PUMP- Challenger 346204 w/ USA MOTOR (rebuilt) SF 1.25/,02, CLEANER- Polaris 280- AO Smith 3/4hp., FEATURE- Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Original Install Valve question.

    Quote Originally Posted by scratchedup View Post
    I think it would be better if the 2 "ins" came into the 2 opposite ends ant the pump in was the 90 degree T....That seems to be what I see on the internet.
    Yes, that is preferred.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Original Install Valve question.

    That is preferred, but I would not think it should affect how well the pump is closed off. Ideally you want the common pipe to be in the middle port so that you have better control over mixing where the suction comes from.

    BTW, usually the valves have stops when prevent you from being able to close off the middle port ... as that is usually a bad thing to close the common pipe as you could starve the pump. Why do you need to close off the suction lines? Is your pump way above water level and it is then difficult to prime after cleaning the pump? Or is the pump below water level and you are trying to stop it from spilling over when you clean the pump?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: Original Install Valve question.

    Part of what is driving me is in over 15 years of pool ownership not one person or company has done anything well on the installs, fixes, replacements.....I'm just tired of the crappy crappy work and shoddy "workmanship".

    I have taken over it all myself and want to do it right, proper and well. The pump motor is being replaced and I am removing the old Ranger sand filter and installing a Hayward C12002 cartridge filter.

    Many hours have been spent analyzing the best most efficient layout. The Jandy model 4717 valve issue just came up from curiosity after research on the internet. It has always bothered me that there is no way to turn off both the inlets (main drain/skimmer) simultaneously. Plus the middle port on the Jandy is labeled "inlet" which it is not if it goes to the pump.

    I plan on removing the Jandy and re-installing it per common pool protocol with the middle port feeding the pump. In addition adding separate dedicated on/off valves to the skimmer and main drain feeds.

    18 x 36' Liner ~26,000g, 1 Skimmer (Supply)- 2 & 1 1/2" pipe, 3 Returns (jets), HEAD- ?, FILTER- Hayward 12002, 230v, SWG- AUTOPILOT DIG-220, PUMP- Challenger 346204 w/ USA MOTOR (rebuilt) SF 1.25/,02, CLEANER- Polaris 280- AO Smith 3/4hp., FEATURE- Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Original Install Valve question.

    Again, why do you need to shut off both suction lines? That is not a common need for in ground pools.

    And the valve in its current orientation should seal off both. If not, the seals may need replaced.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: Original Install Valve question.

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    Again, why do you need to shut off both suction lines? That is not a common need for in ground pools.

    And the valve in its current orientation should seal off both. If not, the seals may need replaced.
    No reason specifically but with a super cold winter we have had it would have been nice to have an independent control over both feeds. For future work, modifying and general maintenance it just seems like a good idea to have the ability to isolate each feed since they are way below grade and under pressure.

    To add an independent SOV on the main drain and re-use the Jandy I need to modify the main drain line in the ground...cut off the "90 up" and extend it outward further.
    18 x 36' Liner ~26,000g, 1 Skimmer (Supply)- 2 & 1 1/2" pipe, 3 Returns (jets), HEAD- ?, FILTER- Hayward 12002, 230v, SWG- AUTOPILOT DIG-220, PUMP- Challenger 346204 w/ USA MOTOR (rebuilt) SF 1.25/,02, CLEANER- Polaris 280- AO Smith 3/4hp., FEATURE- Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Original Install Valve question.

    The 3-way should give you the ability to isolate each suction line. So you only use one of the other or a mixture of both.

    Also the suction lines are not under pressure.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: Original Install Valve question.

    I was just thinking, and the 3-way valve may not seal 100% on the suction side while trying to close one pipe because the suction from the pump could be pulling the diverter away from the seals. On the pressure side of the pump, the pressure holds the diverter against the seals, so they tend to seal pretty well.

    So if you truly want to seal off one of the suction lines, then adding a 2-way valve might help ... although seems like overkill to me.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: Original Install Valve question.

    Over Kill......YES

    But I did it and I'm sure hoping no future problems and easy to fix and work on...



    18 x 36' Liner ~26,000g, 1 Skimmer (Supply)- 2 & 1 1/2" pipe, 3 Returns (jets), HEAD- ?, FILTER- Hayward 12002, 230v, SWG- AUTOPILOT DIG-220, PUMP- Challenger 346204 w/ USA MOTOR (rebuilt) SF 1.25/,02, CLEANER- Polaris 280- AO Smith 3/4hp., FEATURE- Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump.

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    Re: Original Install Valve question.

    Hopefully you do not have to turn those ball valves very often. They have a tendency to get stiff and hard to turn and then the handle breaks off. I tend to not suggest using PVC ball valves.

    Why does the skimmer suction line split and go up to what looks like a union fitting?
    And what is that on the main drain line? A check valve?

    That filter looks way too small for such a large pool as well. For 26k gallons we would recommend at least a 350 sqft cartridge filter ... that is only 120 sqft. So, it is going to require much more frequent cleanings.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: Original Install Valve question.

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    Hopefully you do not have to turn those ball valves very often. They have a tendency to get stiff and hard to turn and then the handle breaks off. I tend to not suggest using PVC ball valves.

    Why does the skimmer suction line split and go up to what looks like a union fitting?
    And what is that on the main drain line? A check valve?

    That filter looks way too small for such a large pool as well. For 26k gallons we would recommend at least a 350 sqft cartridge filter ... that is only 120 sqft. So, it is going to require much more frequent cleanings.
    The small filter is due to using a Polaris pressure cleaner with cleaner "bag".

    I had the rescue fitting in my box of PVC parts and it makes for easy alignment and piecing together of a project. I have yet to experience problems with the PVC valves....

    But I am here for advice so thanks for the input.

    18 x 36' Liner ~26,000g, 1 Skimmer (Supply)- 2 & 1 1/2" pipe, 3 Returns (jets), HEAD- ?, FILTER- Hayward 12002, 230v, SWG- AUTOPILOT DIG-220, PUMP- Challenger 346204 w/ USA MOTOR (rebuilt) SF 1.25/,02, CLEANER- Polaris 280- AO Smith 3/4hp., FEATURE- Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump.

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    Re: Original Install Valve question.

    Interesting to see the skimmers being used to feed both pumps. My PB plumbed a separate feed line for my second pump. It's in the wall of my deep end. (not saying yours is wrong, it's just different. I'm new to all of this)
    IG gunite/plaster pool/spa Started 1/17/14, Plastered 5/16/14
    Size: 12'-21'x39' free form, depth ranging from 4' to 7, attached 6 person spa with spillover.
    Equipment: Whisperflo 2hp pump, Pentair 30" sand filter, Pentair Mastertemp 400k BTU heater, 1hp Whisperflo for waterfalls, and a blower for spa floor

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    Re: Original Install Valve question.

    Quote Originally Posted by mrcarcrazy View Post
    Interesting to see the skimmers being used to feed both pumps. My PB plumbed a separate feed line for my second pump. It's in the wall of my deep end. (not saying yours is wrong, it's just different. I'm new to all of this)
    Good point...never really gave it much thought.

    Pool ~ 15 years old.
    Water Feature I added last summer.

    A friend of mine did most of the plumbing on it and at that time neither of us knew much about pools and pool features. In hindsight I probably should have tapped into the main drain. Added a dedicated feed although ideal was not going to happen....way to much work, digging and disruption.

    Old picture but it shows the line to the pool water feature water fall.
    18 x 36' Liner ~26,000g, 1 Skimmer (Supply)- 2 & 1 1/2" pipe, 3 Returns (jets), HEAD- ?, FILTER- Hayward 12002, 230v, SWG- AUTOPILOT DIG-220, PUMP- Challenger 346204 w/ USA MOTOR (rebuilt) SF 1.25/,02, CLEANER- Polaris 280- AO Smith 3/4hp., FEATURE- Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Original Install Valve question.

    I don't think it is too uncommon to plumb 2 pumps to the same suction line. There is some concern with the flow if only one pump is on pulling water backward through the other ... check valves would stop that.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: Original Install Valve question.

    Going to pour a pad....
    18 x 36' Liner ~26,000g, 1 Skimmer (Supply)- 2 & 1 1/2" pipe, 3 Returns (jets), HEAD- ?, FILTER- Hayward 12002, 230v, SWG- AUTOPILOT DIG-220, PUMP- Challenger 346204 w/ USA MOTOR (rebuilt) SF 1.25/,02, CLEANER- Polaris 280- AO Smith 3/4hp., FEATURE- Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump.

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