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Thread: Cartridge Filer Showing 27 PSI - NEW Cart.

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    happyheathen's Avatar
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    Cartridge Filer Showing 27 PSI - NEW Cart.

    Is this even in the realm of rational?

    This is an "American Products Predator" 200 sq ft (Pentair Clean & Clear, but black resin instead of sand-colored. Pre-2007 (or whenever) model.

    I bought this used, so suspected the cart, despite appearing clean and not readily shedding crud when hit by garden hose, was actually blocked somehow.

    I just replaced the cart with a Fabco model. New pressure gauge last year.

    This filter has the internal "cage" inside the cartridge - could that be causing the high pressure?

    The water was shocked to 25 ppm chlorine due to opaque algae (recent CA storms). It is now milky white and opaque, despite running the pump 24 hours with the new cart.

    Cannot get reliable test results due to shock and probably still-dissolving CYA.

    When I turned off the pump (it has a tiny suction leak I am NOT messing with - the basket is full and the pump is over-sized anyway) the entire system - from pump through return - shuddered. Scary. I am using the remote kill switch from now on.

    Any ideas as to pressure and/or opaque white water? When swept, the swimouts produce clouds of very fine with powder - could it be fine enough to get through a cart?

    As always, thanks!
    Dave
    Sacramento
    1980's 15,000 Gal IG Plaster; 1 1/2 hp Hayward Northstar; Hayward Swimclear C3025 Cartridge Filter (325 sq ft, nom.); Pentair Legend; Polaris PB4-60; Equipment 40' from pool. p.s.: it's an aye-aye.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Cartridge Filer Showing 27 PSI - NEW Cart.

    The only test result that is not reliable is the pH due to the high FC level.

    That pressure could be fine (although seems high) if you have an oversized pump for your filter and plumbing.
    Was that the reading right after putting in the new cartridge? If you have algae, then it could clog up quickly.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Cartridge Filer Showing 27 PSI - NEW Cart.

    Does the pressure gauge go to zero when the pump is turned off?

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    happyheathen's Avatar
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    Re: Cartridge Filer Showing 27 PSI - NEW Cart.

    Yes, the reading was what was stabilized when I shut off the bleed valve first run.

    Yes, the gauge zeroes properly.

    Have to believe it is normal.

    With the old cart, the reading was 28 PSI.

    After 24 hrs, new reading is 28 PSI

    If my guess is correct, and the stuff is very fine dead algae, will the blue "clarifier" stuff work?
    Dave
    Sacramento
    1980's 15,000 Gal IG Plaster; 1 1/2 hp Hayward Northstar; Hayward Swimclear C3025 Cartridge Filter (325 sq ft, nom.); Pentair Legend; Polaris PB4-60; Equipment 40' from pool. p.s.: it's an aye-aye.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Cartridge Filer Showing 27 PSI - NEW Cart.

    We rarely ever recommend clarifiers or flocs as they can sometime make things worse. Your filter should take care of it.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: Cartridge Filer Showing 27 PSI - NEW Cart.

    The cartridge should be cleaned. I would try running the system without the cartridge element to see what pressure is attributable to the cartridge. Just as a brief test.

    If you have a salt cell, you should check it for scale and clean it if necessary.

    Can you post a full set of test results?

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    happyheathen's Avatar
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    Re: Cartridge Filer Showing 27 PSI - NEW Cart.

    No, no tests yet.

    No salt cell.

    Just a "so you know where I'm coming from":
    This house is a fixer from end to end - it still has the original "builder grade" carpet from 1979. It also has the world's cheapest roof. I have osteoarthritis and cannot swim.
    Pool is way down the list of things needing (scarce) money.

    I will pull the cart, but doing so greatly alters the water flow in the filter - this has a 2-piece cage in the center - and the upper half (the closed part) sits on the cart. I'm not going to risk putting the part without the cart to support it.

    After running the filter with brand new cart for 24 hours, there is no appreciable change in water clarity, so running it another 24 is not indicated, IMHO.

    I did have success with blue "clarifier" in a similar situation, and now consider it a "stock" item.
    Dave
    Sacramento
    1980's 15,000 Gal IG Plaster; 1 1/2 hp Hayward Northstar; Hayward Swimclear C3025 Cartridge Filter (325 sq ft, nom.); Pentair Legend; Polaris PB4-60; Equipment 40' from pool. p.s.: it's an aye-aye.

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    Re: Cartridge Filer Showing 27 PSI - NEW Cart.

    There might be multiple issues happening simultaneously. The algae should be treated following the SLAM process as described in Pool School. The filter cartridge should be cleaned as needed. You will need a full set of test results to get reliable control over the water quality. If the pool is painted, then that can contribute to cloudiness due to paint chalking.

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    happyheathen's Avatar
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    Re: Cartridge Filer Showing 27 PSI - NEW Cart.

    To review:
    Raised water to approx 25 ppm chlorine (6 pounds of 53%) in 15,000 gal.
    New cartridge, run for 24 hours.
    I don't believe a new cart should require cleaning.
    Original pressure reading: 27
    After 24 hours: 28

    Result: water went from opaque green to opaque white.

    Reading the thread re; rattling in a sand filter when heater is bypassed, it just dawned on me - there is no bypass valve on this system - the filter outlet goes straight to the (dead, as far as I know or am going to find out) heater.
    I suspect the backup is in the heater.

    Time for the hacksaw and more 2" sch 40.
    Dave
    Sacramento
    1980's 15,000 Gal IG Plaster; 1 1/2 hp Hayward Northstar; Hayward Swimclear C3025 Cartridge Filter (325 sq ft, nom.); Pentair Legend; Polaris PB4-60; Equipment 40' from pool. p.s.: it's an aye-aye.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Cartridge Filer Showing 27 PSI - NEW Cart.

    A one time addition of powder chlorine is not the SLAM process and the solid chlorine is likely causing more issues. Cal hypo adds calcium and could cause the cloudy water if your pH is too high. But you can not check the pH when FC is greater than 10. You should use liquid chlorine.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    bobodaclown's Avatar
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    Re: Cartridge Filer Showing 27 PSI - NEW Cart.

    Your pressure seems very high for a cartridge filter just installed.
    Some questions to ponder.
    Are all the return lines open?
    What the flow coming from the jets? Did you replace the internal support to the cartridge?
    Could the output side of the filter be clogged with debris?
    Briefly try running with out the cartridge and check what the pressure is?

    Maybe I read it wrong. Was you filter working fine then climbed up to 28PSI. If that is the case then clean and start over. Sounds like it's filtering.
    17K Kidney Shaped Pool Concrete (Diamond Bright) Pool, 3/4 hp 2 speed 115V Sta-rite Duraglas PEA5D-180L/P2R5D-181L (Impeller C105-92PS Diffuser C1-216P), 1.5 piping, Pentair CC100 Filter , Heat Siphon 100K BTU Heat Pump Pool Heater, Flow meter Blue White Flowmeter Model No. F-30150P, Hayward Astrolight SP0581N, SWCG CalimarTitanium Edition TE45 , Dolphin Nautilus Plus with CleverClean, Lakeland Florida

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Cartridge Filer Showing 27 PSI - NEW Cart.

    Quote Originally Posted by happyheathen View Post
    I don't believe a new cart should require cleaning.
    It most certainly does when you are fighting an algae bloom like you are. Algae blooms are very difficult to fight with a cartridge filter because they usually require frequent cleaning until the algae is completely dead because the algae clogs the filter very quickly. You would be better of removing the cartridges, killing the algae, let it settle to the floor and then vacuum to waste.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    happyheathen's Avatar
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    Re: Cartridge Filer Showing 27 PSI - NEW Cart.

    Just a note:

    Got a look at pH: 7.5

    The cal hypo shock was 25 ppm for 48 hours

    I again upped the chlorine (2 gallons 6%) over what the idiot test can measure.

    We just had a storm front move through, so back to skimming...

    Will not play with filter until I can get the plumbing re-routed so it does not pass through the dead heater (which I suspect is causing a restriction, raising the filter pressure (the original topic)).

    I did get 5 lbs of CYA, and the chlorine is (was until storm, at least) steady at 48 hours.

    Do not know the TA, buit the odds of excessive calcium is unlikely - the one constant over the years is the last of the plaster flaking off - I have 50# of CaCl which may on may not get installed, along with the borax and baking soda.

    If the weather breaks and my back quits *****ing (see: Osteoarthritis) at me, I may get the plumbing done in a day or two.
    Dave
    Sacramento
    1980's 15,000 Gal IG Plaster; 1 1/2 hp Hayward Northstar; Hayward Swimclear C3025 Cartridge Filter (325 sq ft, nom.); Pentair Legend; Polaris PB4-60; Equipment 40' from pool. p.s.: it's an aye-aye.

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    happyheathen's Avatar
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    Re: Cartridge Filer Showing 27 PSI - NEW Cart.

    Thought a quick update would be proper:
    1. Disconnecting the ancient heater solved the pressure problem.
    2. The activity was too much for the tired, old, cheap filter locking ring and the molded thread.

    Am now ripping out the plumbing from the pump to the booster take-off.
    For some reason the people who installed a 2" system decided, since the heater had stepped-down the pressure line to 1 1/2", they would continue the 1 1/2" all the way to the TEE used to take off the booster fitting.
    I'm going to remove all the 1 1/2 and have 2" throughout.

    First, however, I need to expand the pad - it is 4' x 8', but they put all the pipes (gas, booster, suction, and pressure) in the middle of one quadrant, and then put the heater in the middle of the pad, blocking use of half of the pad.
    Result: no space for a filter 21" in diameter.

    I'm loving this house.
    Dave
    Sacramento
    1980's 15,000 Gal IG Plaster; 1 1/2 hp Hayward Northstar; Hayward Swimclear C3025 Cartridge Filter (325 sq ft, nom.); Pentair Legend; Polaris PB4-60; Equipment 40' from pool. p.s.: it's an aye-aye.

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