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Thread: Advice on pump and automation devices

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    Advice on pump and automation devices

    Having my pool refinished soon and wanted to upgrade the system.
    16k gallon inground plaster (soon to be pebble tech) with a valet jet system.
    1- after surfing around this site it looks like my best bet for a pump would be a 1hp 2 speed.
    Am I correct?
    2- looking at automating my system and converting to swg. I have been looking at the 25k gallon tcell and they aquarite pro with sense and dispense. can any of you offer any advice or assistance in this decision.

    I am an electrician and have worked on some of these systems so I feel very comfortable doing any install work and install cost should not be a factor.

    thank you all for your time and assistance,

    chris
    central florida approx 16k gallon IG plaster, Apollo va32 DE filter, sta-rite 1.5hp

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    bobodaclown's Avatar
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    Re: Advice on pump and automation devices

    It's always better to get a cell that is rated at least twice the size of your pool. Cells put out based on 24 hours of run time and most people run their pumps longer than needed,so not to have to run your pump as long you're going cell need to put out more chlorine in a shorter period of time so you get a larger unit.

    For example I have a unit that is rated for 60K Gallons, but I'm running 70% for about 4 hours, and in the summer I need to increase it to 8-10 hours.

    Also cells are rated for about 10000 hours at 100% output. (8 hours a day X 365 = 2920 hours year , 10000/2920 = 3.4 years)

    Most units allow you to turn down the percentage of output as an adjustment also.
    Some helpful links:
    SWCG Sizing: http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...izing-question
    SWCG water balance: http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...rine-generator
    Determining pump run time: http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...-pump-run-time

    Overall installing a SWCG is pretty easy. Most brands have online manuals so you can read up ahead of time. It's going to be the last item before the returns. It should go Intake-Pump-filter-heater-SWCG-returns
    17K Kidney Shaped Pool Concrete (Diamond Bright) Pool, 3/4 hp 2 speed 115V Sta-rite Duraglas PEA5D-180L/P2R5D-181L (Impeller C105-92PS Diffuser C1-216P), 1.5 piping, Pentair CC100 Filter , Heat Siphon 100K BTU Heat Pump Pool Heater, Flow meter Blue White Flowmeter Model No. F-30150P, Hayward Astrolight SP0581N, SWCG CalimarTitanium Edition TE45 , Dolphin Nautilus Plus with CleverClean, Lakeland Florida

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Advice on pump and automation devices

    AquaRite is a great brand, but I would stay far away from the sense and dispense feature. It adds complexity, reduces reliability, and rarely works as well as a regular SWG.

    As long as you don't have a spa or major water feature you haven't mentioned then a 1 HP 2 speed is great.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Advice on pump and automation devices

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion View Post
    AquaRite is a great brand, but I would stay far away from the sense and dispense feature. It adds complexity, reduces reliability, and rarely works as well as a regular SWG.

    As long as you don't have a spa or major water feature you haven't mentioned then a 1 HP 2 speed is great.
    thank you for the response. i was going to use the sense and dispense basically for the ph and working with swg

    - - - Updated - - -

    thank you for the response and information It is greatly appreciated.
    central florida approx 16k gallon IG plaster, Apollo va32 DE filter, sta-rite 1.5hp

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Advice on pump and automation devices

    The PH regulation portion of the Sense and Dispense system can be useful in some fairly narrow situations, but the ORP based chlorine regulation portion almost always causes more trouble than it solves. Just about the only times the PH portion is worth having is when you have high TA fill water and a reasonably high evaporation rate, or have a major waterfall (such as a negative edge) that is run a fairly high portion of the time. In just about every other situation it is easy enough to balance your various levels so that PH drift is minimal.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    automated systems

    I know I have been asking about this but I have a few more question.
    btw I really appreciate everyone here for there help and positivity!

    Hayward maxflo xl vs pump 1.5hp or Superflo 1hp 2sp pump?
    Automation and communication?
    Aqua rite vs. aquarite pro or suggestions for alternatives (I was told aqua rite swg is a solid product so have been leaning this way)?
    Is sense and dispense worth it for ph balance only, if i want to be as maintenance free as possible?
    Is CO2 worth using over acid?
    As far as pebble finish goes does brand really matter? if so what should i be looking at or for?

    okay I think i covered it lol

    thanks again everyone,

    chris
    central florida approx 16k gallon IG plaster, Apollo va32 DE filter, sta-rite 1.5hp

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: automated systems

    Ok, I will give this one a shot, If I understand what your asking:

    Hayward maxflo xl vs pump 1.5hp or Superflo 1hp 2sp pump? Depends on your needs, and electrical cost, the Maxflo VS (I don't know of an XL, can't find it on Haywards site either) is a fairly new pump which was just released last year combining a Maxflo pump body with a basic variable speed controller, unlike other more expensive variable speed pumps it has no outside communication or control function, all programing must be done with its limited feature onboard control panel/timer The 2 Speed Pentair Superflo is a classic work horse, limited to 2 speeds, but these can be switched remotely by an automation system, timer, etc.

    Automation and communication? Bells and Whistles, depending on the features I guess it could be nice, but not really needed for most pools. After all do you really need to change the color of the LED pool light from your i-phone will sitting in your living room, or monitor and adjust the thermostat on you pool /sa heater while driving home from work?

    Aqua rite vs. aquarite pro or suggestions for alternatives (I was told aqua rite swg is a solid product so have been leaning this way)? I don't own a pool SWG so will leave this one to others, but will say that based on the comments here that there are a number of quality SWG's on the market.

    Is sense and dispense worth it for ph balance only, if i want to be as maintenance free as possible? Probably depends on the pool, pH stability is one of those things that varies considerably depending on local conditions and type of pool (plaster or not). Plaster pools are always going to need a lot of acid while the plaster is curing. By contrast depending on local water, wind blow dust acidity, etc some pools almost never need acid to adjust pH. With my pool for example I have probably used less than a gallon of acid in the last 4 years.

    Is CO2 worth using over acid? Sounds like another of those bells and whistles, but may depend on if you measure your requirement for acid in gallons per day, per year or per decade. Valid comparisons on this only come from similar pools (including use of water features due to aeration nearby drawing water from the same water supply.)

    As far as pebble finish goes does brand really matter? if so what should i be looking at or for? Again don't have one, but from what I have read here, yes, at least to some degree.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Re: automated systems

    All Hayward SWG use the T-Cell units for chlorine generation. There are a number of control options which is what sets them apart. The "Pro" package you are considering adds Ph management. I personally haven't needed to adjust Ph very often, but I don't have waterfalls or jets and any natural things that might affect Ph.

    One thing to consider is the "Aquaplus" package from Hayward which includes a subpanel and a basic automation system in addition to SWG. Its a pretty good deal for what you get. If you were going to have a subpanel at the pool then definitely consider that option.
    26,000 gal 18x36' IG Vinyl Pool - Hayward S244T Sand filter - Hayward Tri-star 2-speed 1.5HP pump - Goldline Aqua Plus SWCG and Controller with Tcell-15 - Aquacomfort 125K BTU Heatpump - Hayward Color Comfort 4.0 LED - Zodiac MX8 suction cleaner - TF100 test kit
    My Build thread

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: automated systems

    Quote Originally Posted by theAfamily View Post
    Hayward maxflo xl vs pump 1.5hp or Superflo 1hp 2sp pump?
    That depends on what you pay for electricity. I would only get the VS if your electrical costs are over $0.15/kWh.

    Quote Originally Posted by theAfamily View Post
    Aqua rite vs. aquarite pro or suggestions for alternatives (I was told aqua rite swg is a solid product so have been leaning this way)?
    Regular AquaRite is just fine in nearly all cases.

    Quote Originally Posted by theAfamily View Post
    Is sense and dispense worth it for ph balance only, if i want to be as maintenance free as possible?
    Not unless you have something that specifically requires it, like very high fill water TA levels or a negative edge/huge waterfall that you use a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by theAfamily View Post
    Is CO2 worth using over acid?
    No. Acid is superior in many ways, though it is marginally more trouble to refill the tank.

    Quote Originally Posted by theAfamily View Post
    As far as pebble finish goes does brand really matter? if so what should i be looking at or for?
    PebbleTec puts a lot more effort into making sure their installers have enough experience. Other brands are more variable depending on the quality of the crew. In the hands of an experienced crew all are about the same, but hard to guarantee that with the other brands.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Re: automated systems

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac-1 View Post
    Ok, I will give this one a shot, If I understand what your asking:

    Hayward maxflo xl vs pump 1.5hp or Superflo 1hp 2sp pump? Depends on your needs, and electrical cost, the Maxflo VS (I don't know of an XL, can't find it on Haywards site either) is a fairly new pump which was just released last year combining a Maxflo pump body with a basic variable speed controller, unlike other more expensive variable speed pumps it has no outside communication or control function, all programing must be done with its limited feature onboard control panel/timer The 2 Speed Pentair Superflo is a classic work horse, limited to 2 speeds, but these can be switched remotely by an automation system, timer, etc.

    what i figured, i am an electrician and vfd's are nice but seem to have other issues (at least in my field).

    Automation and communication? Bells and Whistles, depending on the features I guess it could be nice, but not really needed for most pools. After all do you really need to change the color of the LED pool light from your i-phone will sitting in your living room, or monitor and adjust the thermostat on you pool /sa heater while driving home from work?

    don't need to control anything remotely, more talking about automation in the sense of pump control (basically a relay i would imagine) and swg/ph management (which after all of your comments i think i will leave alone).
    Aqua rite vs. aquarite pro or suggestions for alternatives (I was told aqua rite swg is a solid product so have been leaning this way)? I don't own a pool SWG so will leave this one to others, but will say that based on the comments here that there are a number of quality SWG's on the market.

    Is sense and dispense worth it for ph balance only, if i want to be as maintenance free as possible? Probably depends on the pool, pH stability is one of those things that varies considerably depending on local conditions and type of pool (plaster or not). Plaster pools are always going to need a lot of acid while the plaster is curing. By contrast depending on local water, wind blow dust acidity, etc some pools almost never need acid to adjust pH. With my pool for example I have probably used less than a gallon of acid in the last 4 years.

    Is CO2 worth using over acid? Sounds like another of those bells and whistles, but may depend on if you measure your requirement for acid in gallons per day, per year or per decade. Valid comparisons on this only come from similar pools (including use of water features due to aeration nearby drawing water from the same water supply.)

    simply knew little about this one lol, just saw that the ph can't drop below 5.5 with co2 (again trying to stay maint. cautious).

    As far as pebble finish goes does brand really matter? if so what should i be looking at or for? Again don't have one, but from what I have read here, yes, at least to some degree.
    THANK YOU for your input it is much appreciated!

    Quote Originally Posted by MassNerd View Post
    All Hayward SWG use the T-Cell units for chlorine generation. There are a number of control options which is what sets them apart. The "Pro" package you are considering adds Ph management. I personally haven't needed to adjust Ph very often, but I don't have waterfalls or jets and any natural things that might affect Ph.

    One thing to consider is the "Aquaplus" package from Hayward which includes a subpanel and a basic automation system in addition to SWG. Its a pretty good deal for what you get. If you were going to have a subpanel at the pool then definitely consider that option.
    THANK YOU, I appreciate you taking the time to respond. your input was definatly helpful!


    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion View Post
    That depends on what you pay for electricity. I would only get the VS if your electrical costs are over $0.15/kWh.


    Regular AquaRite is just fine in nearly all cases.


    Not unless you have something that specifically requires it, like very high fill water TA levels or a negative edge/huge waterfall that you use a lot.


    No. Acid is superior in many ways, though it is marginally more trouble to refill the tank.

    PebbleTec puts a lot more effort into making sure their installers have enough experience. Other brands are more variable depending on the quality of the crew. In the hands of an experienced crew all are about the same, but hard to guarantee that with the other brands.
    THANK YOU also i pay btwn .09 and .12 a kw so sounds like the 2 speed is the way to go, you guys are all awesome


    chris
    central florida approx 16k gallon IG plaster, Apollo va32 DE filter, sta-rite 1.5hp

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