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Thread: Just starting - Need guidance

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    Just starting - Need guidance

    Hi, Let's start from the readings:

    Cl - 0
    pH - 8.2
    TA - 90-100
    CH - 300
    CYA - <20

    First pool and just moved to AZ. Was told by pool supply that needed to drain entire pool and refill due to CH being over 800 so I did. Then found TFP... I have not done anything to the pool in two weeks waiting patiently for my TF100 set. PoolMath isn't straight forward to me yet and also needing to know if I add everything at once or one at a time. I've read many instructions but hard to keep straight at this point. I will start with bleach and then go from there. Any other hand-holding to start would be helpful.

    Thanks
    14k, IG, pebbletec, sand, 1HP MagneTek 2-speed pump, 1997?, Gilbert, AZ

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Just starting - Need guidance

    Quote Originally Posted by calljp View Post
    Hi, Let's start from the readings:

    Cl - 0
    pH - 8.2
    TA - 90-100
    CH - 300
    CYA - <20

    First pool and just moved to AZ. Was told by pool supply that needed to drain entire pool and refill due to CH being over 800 so I did. Then found TFP... I have not done anything to the pool in two weeks waiting patiently for my TF100 set. PoolMath isn't straight forward to me yet and also needing to know if I add everything at once or one at a time. I've read many instructions but hard to keep straight at this point. I will start with bleach and then go from there. Any other hand-holding to start would be helpful.

    Thanks
    Naw, it's easy! Plug your numbers into http://www.troublefreepool.com/calc.html

    What I come up with is 63 oz of 8.25% bleach - plain old Chlorox. That's 2 qts - slightly more than half the 121 oz jug. You can eyeball that, just dump in roughly half a jug in front of the return while the pump is running.

    While you wait for that to disperse, weigh out about 5 lbs of CYA granules. Sometimes they come in 4 lb canisters, that's enough to get you started. Don't get too excited about perfection yet. If it's in a four pound canister, buy one now but know you'll need more later. Pour the stuff in an old sock or nylon - one without holes - and tie it shut then hang it in front of the return or let it bob around tied to a pool noddle or something. By then you should have wasted half an hour at least, so you can add the acid to bring pH down to 7.5ish. I get 22 fluid ounces from http://www.troublefreepool.com/calc.html . You will need to measure that out carefully. Same thing: just pour it in front of the return stream.

    You could also do the acid first and the bleach later. It doesn't really matter as long as you allow half an hour or so of circulation.

    Recheck pH and TA the next day and see if it needs any fine tuning. The pH tester reads anything above 8.2 as 8.2, so you could be higher. Add more acid if needed. You will need more bleach almost certainly. Don't even waste time rechecking CYA until the stuff you added has completely dissolved and it's had another week or so to mix well.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    Just starting - Need guidance

    Welcome to TFP !!

    Follow that guidance ^^^. Make sure you lower that PH level. PH is right up there in importance as FC. Also watch the fumes from the acid.

    Anymore questions don't hesitate to ask.
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Re: Just starting - Need guidance

    The person at the pool store where I got the CYA granules said to mix the bag of granules in 3-4 gallons of warm water and poor it into the skimmer. I have not seen that method mentioned here. not as effective? They also cast enough doubt needing more than the 4 lbs of CYA. He said it just accumulates. Sorry to question but its hard to keep everything straight.

    Also, sock with CYA... just as good in the skimmer? I have seen a couple of techniques suggesting something be by the returns but if they are at the bottom of the pool, should I send it to the bottom tied to something? Or just do the noodle thing?

    What about using Clorine tablets along with bleach. Any downside to that?

    Thanks again.
    14k, IG, pebbletec, sand, 1HP MagneTek 2-speed pump, 1997?, Gilbert, AZ

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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    Just starting - Need guidance

    The way I've added stabilizer was in a nylon stocking with a knot tied. Then hang it over the edge in front of the return. Use something for weight to hold it there. Don't worry about testing CYA level for about a week as it takes awhile for it to fully register. Just assume it's there and adjust your FC level for the CYA level you shot for. Use the FC / CYA chart in pool school for that.




    Use pool math to figure out how much granular stabilizer you need to get the level your shooting for.

    You can use the pucks to add CYA. You just have to figure out how many to use to get to the CYA level you want, then stop using them. At the bottom of Pool math effects of adding chem's, will tell you how much each puck will raise CYA level. I think they usually add 6-8 ppm of CYA for each puck. They are also acidic so they lower your PH and you'll have adjust that also. I would just go the granular route.

    Take our advice. We won't steer you wrong. You'll get the hang of things. This isn't rocket science. After a bit this will be very easy !!

    Don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions.
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Just starting - Need guidance

    Quote Originally Posted by calljp View Post
    The person at the pool store where I got the CYA granules said to mix the bag of granules in 3-4 gallons of warm water and poor it into the skimmer. I have not seen that method mentioned here. not as effective? They also cast enough doubt needing more than the 4 lbs of CYA. He said it just accumulates. Sorry to question but its hard to keep everything straight.

    Also, sock with CYA... just as good in the skimmer? I have seen a couple of techniques suggesting something be by the returns but if they are at the bottom of the pool, should I send it to the bottom tied to something? Or just do the noodle thing?

    What about using Clorine tablets along with bleach. Any downside to that?

    Thanks again.
    CYA only accumulates if you chlorinate with pucks. If you use liquid bleach or a salt water chlorine generator, that won't happen. CYA granules don't dissolve well, even in warm water. You'll just end up pouring weak acid granules into your pool, which could leave little polka dots in the finish. Because it is acidic, it's not a good idea to drop the sock in the skimmer, unless the pump is running 24/7.

    As stated above, pucks will cause CYA to rise. they are also acidic. Many of us use pucks to raise CYA after we lose some to splashout or backwashing, or when we leave town for extended periods. For everyday use, no, the CYA will build and build and build, which means the free chlorine level needs to be higher and higher and higher to stay ahead of the algae. Easily 80% of the new members who join to complain about cloudy or green pools and empty wallets do so because they followed the pool store and chlorinated with pucks.

    At any rate. you'll need to decide whose advice you want to follow. You can't mix our methods with conventional pool store methods.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Just starting - Need guidance

    At any rate. you'll need to decide whose advice you want to follow. You can't mix our methods with conventional pool store methods.
    +1 what Richard320 said. Folks who bounce back and forth between the advice on this forum and the pool store get stuck in the middle and ALWAYS take longer to get their pools under control. You will need to pick one source and follow it or you will flounder.

    Your TF-100 Should have shipped the same day you ordered it (before 2:00PM) and you should have it within 4 working days of the ship date from NC to AZ. Please PM me if you think it has taken longer than that.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Just starting - Need guidance

    Thanks so far everyone.

    As I went to add the Muriatic acid, I realized I have no form of weighing or measuring the acid without using anything that is deemed for the kitchen. How do y'all measure out your acid? I decided to eyeball it since I was ready move forward and dropped the pH to 7.2. Eyeballing is not a good method for some of this stuff.

    Another reason I asked about chlorine pucks is because the previous owner left a bucket of pucks and other pool chemicals such as PoolPals (pH up). I see the chemistry section mentions PoolPals as a method of pH up but can't tell from the calculator how much of that to use. I will lay off the pucks but did want to know if you felt PoolPals would work until I at least used up the remaining canister.

    Thanks for your patience.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh View Post
    Your TF-100 Should have shipped the same day you ordered it (before 2:00PM) and you should have it within 4 working days of the ship date from NC to AZ. Please PM me if you think it has taken longer than that.
    I ordered the kit through PoolSupplyWorld.com on Feb. 8 and received it Feb. 19. Unless I read it wrong, their shipping was much less and without taxes so that's why I went there. Do they order it from your company then receive it and ship it to me? Btw, I'm from JoCo NC and worked in your area for years. Great to see the business from that area!
    14k, IG, pebbletec, sand, 1HP MagneTek 2-speed pump, 1997?, Gilbert, AZ

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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    Just starting - Need guidance

    Yes eyeballing is not a good or accurate way of dispensing chem's. Get yourself a good measuring device. I use one that'll measure up to a quart.

    I'm not familiar with poolpals PH up. If you need to raise PH borax is what we recommend. You just lowered your PH why do you want to raise it ?
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Re: Just starting - Need guidance

    It looks like the ideal pH is 7.5-7.8 on this site so though I needed to raise it from 7.2.
    14k, IG, pebbletec, sand, 1HP MagneTek 2-speed pump, 1997?, Gilbert, AZ

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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    Re: Just starting - Need guidance

    I think your fine right where you are. It'll probably creep up on its own.
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Smykowski's Avatar
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    Re: Just starting - Need guidance

    Poolpals ph up is nothing but soda ash in expensive packaging. It's certainly fine to use, but you likely wont have to.

    As for measuring, find a cheap plastic one from Walmart/Target. Just buy a big one - 1-2 qts if you can find it.
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
    The most important article on this site - The ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

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    Re: Just starting - Need guidance

    Ok, so I'm going on a few months of TFP care. I take the reason for FC and Ph is because they both need constant adjusting, right? I'm probably adding muriatic acid every couple of days. It keeps coming up fairly quickly. My TA is within the guidelines. Does the constant Ph down with acid sound right? Thanks again!
    14k, IG, pebbletec, sand, 1HP MagneTek 2-speed pump, 1997?, Gilbert, AZ

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    Smykowski's Avatar
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    Re: Just starting - Need guidance

    Even in a clean pool, FC will be broken down by sunlight, so it must constantly be replenished.

    Every few days seems a little too often, though if you have water features or an swg, a faster pH rise is more likely.

    What is your latest set of test results, and what range are you using when you adjust pH? That is, how high do you let it go, then when you add acid, what is your pH target?
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
    The most important article on this site - The ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

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    Re: Just starting - Need guidance

    Chlorine is a consumable item and will need to be constantly replenished.

    Keeping your pH in check by adding acid shouldn't be so often, but some of that depends on each particular pool. Regardless, it is important to keep pH in the 7's for the swim season no matter how much acid it takes.

    I am lucky with my pool in that it only needs acid about once each season.......others (particularly with an SWG) will need to add acid weekly. It's just part of the territory.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Just starting - Need guidance

    on 4/8:
    TA- 80-90
    CH - 400
    CYA - ~36

    on 4/12:
    Cl - 1
    pH - 7.8

    temperature: 77

    I added 12 oz muriatic acid. probably the 3rd time in a week. My goal is 7.5 and it gets back to 7.8 or higher fairly quickly. I later added 106 oz of 8.25% bleach. I was outof town for a few days so was low on Cl.

    Thanks
    14k, IG, pebbletec, sand, 1HP MagneTek 2-speed pump, 1997?, Gilbert, AZ

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    Smykowski's Avatar
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    Re: Just starting - Need guidance

    Couple things...

    First and foremost, more chlorine! Your min is 2-3, so call it 3 to be safe. Never, never, never let it get below 3. Your goal when puttng bleach in the pool is to put in enough so that the NEXT time you test, your FC is still at 3 or above. If you know you're going to be away for a couple of days, it's perfectly fine to target a value at the high end of the range. In fact, there's nothing wrong with bringing your FC up to SLAM level (call it 12 for your CYA level), to guarantee it will be above 3 when you get back home.

    As for your pH, your TA is a touch high,so that may explain most of the rise. Instead of aiming for 7.5, aim for 7.6 and see if that helps slow down the rise. Your TA should slowly be coming down, so that will help as well.
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
    The most important article on this site - The ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Re: Just starting - Need guidance

    Thank you and I hear the warning loud and clear on the chlorine level. For my education, what is the potential consequence for chlorine levels below 3? Just not safe swimming water? Thanks
    14k, IG, pebbletec, sand, 1HP MagneTek 2-speed pump, 1997?, Gilbert, AZ

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    Re: Just starting - Need guidance

    Algae growth and potentially not safe to swim in.
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    Re: Just starting - Need guidance

    What Jblizzle said.

    You should understand that algae is by a long shot, the most experienced nuissance related to low chlorine in a swimming pool, and is most often discussed. Hower, in addition to algae grwoth, now get this - pathogens - can make their way into water by means of birds, animals and humans. the Chlorine also kills the pathogens which may find its way in the water, but it can ONLY do that if there is any free chlorine IN the water.

    It is IMPORTANT, to keep your FC level above the minimum required given your CYA. Not only to keep the algae away, but to keep the water sanitary and safe.

    You didnt mention who or how the water was tested. Do you have your own recommended test kit and test the water yourself?
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
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